Question on solid state controlling of lights. PLEASE HELP!

[ACDCG400]

Hey guys i have a question on lighting i need to make the broadway marquee flashing lights setup. im doing it with leds to i can use a solid state controller for it. i havent a clue how to do this. heres an example of what i need to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrNedSq0oik

[DummyLoad]

if you must "roll your own"... a PIC controller and SS relays should do the trick. that many bulbs is going to be a complex matrix. alternatively, look for an off the shelf MIDI/programmable lighting controller.

http://www.dmxsoft.com/details.php?id_pro=SLESA-U5&cat_pro=32

http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/serial/index.html

[ACDCG400]

i like the 2nd link better. im more than glad to make my own. how would i implement it to the lights though? forgive my ignorance, im such a noob at solid state, its not even funny. 

[tubesornothing]

For a noob, unless you find a specific schematic, it'll be hard to design one.  If I was in your shoes, I'd go with a basic stamp microprocessor.  Lots of examples to get noobs up and running. Great forums.  They might already have a schematic made up for this kinda thing.

 See http://www.parallax.com/

[ACDCG400]

will this work, and can i put this on a macro scale?

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page5.htm#4017-7.gif

[ACDCG400]

nd use this to increase current? =]

http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/4017-2.gif

[tubesornothing]

Sure, but all it will do is sequencing - not quite your example.

[PRR]

> the broadway marquee flashing lights setup

Silly-state is for soul-less geeks.

What classic Broadway did, what even the 1967 Cougar did, is much easier. Get a low-speed motor, "gearmotor", slow enough to make one turn in your full cycle. Put a bunch of disks on the shaft. Get microswitches with roller-levers, one per disk. Jam the switches close so the disk holds them "open", lights off. File notches in the disk so the levers drop and the light comes on. Done.

>

The first section, I, IZ, IZZ, IZZO, can be done with four switches.

The later section turns-on 46 lights individually. The dumb solution requires 46 disks and switches. A "simpler" way with a 16-disk motor and a 16P-4T relay is probably worse. Such signs were very rare in real life, perhaps only seen on the Vegas Strip.

Most of the art of sign-flashing is in making the most eye-impress with the least switching. Doing it in PhotoShop is very different, and might be called cheating.

> PIC controller and SS relays

Another cheat, though very popular. You lose the fun of jammed wheels and rust-bound bearings, you gain some cheap complexity but 46 output relays is a mega job of wiring.

> all it will do is sequencing - not quite your example.

The wheels/switch is just a sequencer, and can do what the IZZO animation does, though with far more complexity than simple chase-lights. Put it in position 1. Wire the lights you want on. Put it in position 2, wire the lights for that position. Ah.... everything leaks to everything else. So use DC lights and use isolation diodes so the sneakage only goes the desired way. Ah.... a 4017 can barely lift one LED, so you will need boosters.

It all gets too messy too fast.

I hate to say it, but next year you will be able to get video iPods with cracked cases cheap on eBay. Load it with something more exciting than an old-fashioned sign-flash, and mount it behind your faceplate.

[DummyLoad]

you could scrounge up a di/o card for PC and just write the routines to do whatever.

[DummyLoad]

> Silly-state is for soul-less geeks.

ouch! that one hurt! 

[ACDCG400]

shit. so its too complicated? =/ what would u recommend then for just the first I, IZ, IZZ, IZZO. then all letters light up, sequence? because im completely clueless. just PRR's lingo is running me in circles!  :shocked:

[ACDCG400]

how should i get em to light up then? solid state relays? and have 2 for each letter? 1 turns on the light and the other trips the next? im so lost lmao

[tubesornothing]

Did you make a decision on how you are going to drive it?  Once you decide on a technology and a circuit, then you can figure out if you need SS relays or not.

[PRR]

> im so lost lmao

You need to sketch what you -really- want to do.

The example you posted has 46 distinct lights, 46 drivers; and maybe 200 stages.... that's major labor.

If you could tolerate just ___, I___, IZ__, IZZ_, IZZO, that's four drivers and five steps, much more do-able.

> im so lost lmao

You need to sketch what you want to do. There are many design decisions, but you HAVE to start somewhere, or this is all just fog.

[ACDCG400]

i havent decided on a technology because i dont know whats best for what i need. i need it to light a 3 word sign of 12 letters over all. in the I, IZ, IZZ, IZZO fashion. and the icing on the cake would be if they could all shut off then all blink. so it'd be: I, IZ, IZZ, IZZO, --(all off)--, IZZO (all on) then all over again, I, IZ ...

is that reasonable?

[tubesornothing]

I think if you use the 4017 as in your link would probably be the easiest to get something going.  If you look at your page and scroll down to "25 Light Sequencer using Xmas lamps", it shows a 4017 using 2N3053 to drive the xmas lamps.  You would only need one 4017 for your application and it would probably easiest to use the 2n3053 to drive relays that control your lights.

Start by drawing up a schematic using a 555 and a single 4017 with the 2n3053 transistors. Cut and paste it from both the "10 Channel LED Sequencer".  Post the schematic (ExpressSCH or jpg) and we can take a look from there.

[tubesornothing]

Looky what I found:

http://www.apexjr.com/images/FC2.jpg

http://www.apexjr.com/Props.htm (scroll down)

Perhaps you can buy your way out of this...

[ACDCG400]

ill draw up a schematic tonite    :glasses9:

and does that fit my usage? i wonder if that can be expanded? because that looks greek to me. =] lmfao

and i never thanked you guys! Thank you guys so much for putting up with noobs like me. =]]]]  :hello2:

[tubesornothing]

Yep that board will do what you want.  You are doing a 5 chase, one for each four letters, then one for all of them. You will need a 12V power supply, and mechanical relays for your lights.

Re-read the entire instructions, and spend the time to understand.  If you are not going to pay for someone to build it for you, it is probably the easiest option.

[ACDCG400]

ok then. i reread it a few times and maybe i didnt see it, but i need it to acomodate 12 letters, =/

[ACDCG400]

hey guys will this work?

http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=50&sessid=93061d2ab82ecff72e54d765e41a821b

[PRR]

> shit. so its too complicated? =/

Not nuclear physics; but from where you are, a LOT of knowledge-bootstrapping; and from where I sit, way more tedious brain-drain than it is worth to you.

> what would u recommend then

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7c54/

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7c60/

[ACDCG400]

PRR: would that work thought? because i need to control manyyyyy lights at one time. thats a fair bit of current. will something like that handle it? =/

[tubesornothing]

Hmm, since you don't have a strong enough background in electronics to hack together a design,  you are going to be forced down a few roads:

(1)  buy something that sort of meets your needs and live with it - like PRR's suggestion

(2)  pay some money to someone to build it for you

(3)  go and find a commercial unit that will do what you want.

We have offered up a number of ideas here, but I don't think anyone is going to do the work for you for free.  There are too many amps that need building.

[ACDCG400]

I want to do what PRR says, but im worried it wont handle the current demands.

I dont wnat anyone to do work for me, i, just looking for ideas to jump start off of.  Sry if i came of as that

[PRR]

I didn't mean "hack the beltbuckle". It's probably all surface-mount.

Program your 12 letters into it, stick it on/in the amp. No hard thinking needed.

> will this work?

Arunido. Read the "Arduino programming language" manual. I started with 4oo4 CPUs and still can't make sense of it. Then I saw "based on Processing".... Processing is a sexy new language which combines the functionality of Turtle graphics with the ugly syntax of Ansi C.