Calling Cabinet Builders

[Vair_dude]

I'm just wondering how much money you guys save building your own cabinets. I realize there's tools ect.... you have to buy up front but this is assuming you have everything you need. Can you put a approx. percentage on it?

[tubesornothing]

I can build a combo cab with tolex, handles and feet for about $60-80 and 3-5 hrs labour.  Mojo sells them for $300.

[tubenit]

Both of these cabs each cost about $85 in materials.

Tubenit

[tubesornothing]

Absolutely gorgeous tubenit.  I have to make one of those, I typically do the tolex thing.  I'll have to make special coasters for the ubiquitous beer on the amp.

[tubesornothing]

Tubenit - a couple of questions:

What wood did you use for the forehead?  (I like how you did the "mirror grain" effect)

What joint did you use for the ends?  I can't quite see box joint of dovetail.

[Vair_dude]

Thanks for your responses guys. Any suggestions (links ect..) for a guy starting out on this?

[bluesbear]

There are lots of ways. I like box joints done on a table saw. here's the best dado blades I've found:

http://www.freudtools.com/p-316-box-joint-cutter-set.aspx

Here's their downloadable guide to making box joints. It's the clearest instructions I've found:

http://www.freudtools.com/images/manuals/SBOX8-Manual.pdf

I know it's cheaper than buying a cabinet but I don't really care. I just enjoy it!

Dave

[tubesornothing]

I saw that Freud blade in the store.  It intrigued me.  I have tried to do box joints with dado, but the bottoms were a really crappy finish, and the jig was a pain in the butt.  At least that blade would have a good bottom finish. 

Then I did a few box joints with the router and the box joint jig.  That worked pretty good, but was a PIA to assemble.

I suppose that Freud blade would be similar to the router jig set-up.  Bluesbear have you tried the router box joint jig?  Interested to hear your experience with it versus the Freud blades.

[Vair_dude]

What about doing dovetail joints?

[tubesornothing]

Dovetail would be just fine.  It just requires a jig, router, bit and some time. They are a very nice joint especially of the wood is exposed like Tubenits amps.

[imaradiostar]

I've used a jig similar to to one above and gotten inconsistent results. Sometimes it was perfect and other times I couldn't get a consistent cut- I couldn't get the tolerance tight enough to do wider cabinets around 12 to 14 inches deep. If the jig was off 2 thousands at one end of the board it'd be 1/16" out by the other end. Shimming the dado jig and carefully adjusting it would fix it but it'd only take a few cabs and it'd be out of adjustment again. I have a hunch my craftsmanship wasn't up to par because I was having a hard time getting repeatable results!

I found a different design in a vintage woodworking book from the 50's and modified it for modern usage. The aluminum comb portion was purchased from Grizzly Tools- it's a comb that fits the inexpensive dovetail jig sold by grizzly, harbor freight and others. The notches are 1/4" apart and each notch fits perfectly tight on the non-threaded shank of a metric 8mm bolt. This bolt indexes the comb portion of the jig which has the work clamped to it. It's just wide enough to do a 14" long board so I can do a full sized marshall 4x12. It relies on the tolerance between the bolt and the comb and to a lesser extent how precisely the sled fits in dado slots. It makes it possible for me to get repeatable results without having to constantly check to make sure it still fits together.

The other benefit is the ability to cut four or more boards at a time!



http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamietyson/sets/72157623333083301/

[tubesornothing]

RadioStar, that is great info  - thanks.  4 boards at once with good accuracy is a very good thing!  I like the jig - I will give it a shot.  I have a luthier buddy who owes me a bunch of work, I'll get him to put it together for me.

[bluesbear]

I have 2 router box and dovetail jigs I've never been able to get to work correctly. I bought a cheap little $89 table saw and set it up for the dado blade. I used scrap wood to fiddle around until I had it set just right for 1/2" box joints. I use it only for box joints so it stays consistant. If you're getting a lot of tear out, either you're pushing the wood too fast, your blade is dull (or cheap), or the dado isn't set up correctly. One thing that helps with tear out is to put a strip of masking tape on the trailing edge of the wood before cutting it. Also, I only use pine. Harder woods might be more likely to tear out, I don't know. One thing for sure... a cheap blade is an expensive mistake! I started with a $29 blade. The Freud cuts so much smoother it pays for itself very quickly.
Dave

[Boots Deville]

I share radiostar's experience with those type of box joint jigs.  My solution was this jig which uses a threaded rod, 16 TPI, for precise adjustment of the cut.

http://www.leestyron.com/lynnjig.php
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnsjig.pdf

Here is an action photo of the one I built, cutting all four panels of a cab in one pass:
http://i45.tinypic.com/35173bm.jpg

It takes some time to build the jig.  For one cab, probably not worth it, but for many, IMO, definitely worth the effort.

[JayB]

I share radiostar's experience with those type of box joint jigs.  My solution was this jig which uses a threaded rod, 16 TPI, for precise adjustment of the cut.

http://www.leestyron.com/lynnjig.php
http://www.leestyron.com/lynnsjig.pdf

Here is an action photo of the one I built, cutting all four panels of a cab in one pass:
http://i45.tinypic.com/35173bm.jpg

It takes some time to build the jig.  For one cab, probably not worth it, but for many, IMO, definitely worth the effort.

That's a nice setup. I need a better table saw though.

I have been using locking miter joints for plywood and a decent dovetail jig for regular wood.

[Casey4s]

I realize this is an old thread, but I have a box joint jig that is easy to make yourself and cuts perfect box joints with no expiereince needed.  This is my own design but I have seen similar versions by others so no patent available.

Just click on the pics to see the video.


With dust extractor removed so you can see




With the dust collector in place.




Cutting two pieces at th same time (like opposing sides of a cabinet)

[stingray_65]

OK,

Down and Dirty, Solid construction, Super Cheap, Minimal tools/skills

make a simple doweled box joint.

do this by drilling a pilot hole in the sides, just big enough for the screws to pass. drill thrm 3/8 down from the edge (half material thickness) and 3/4 from edges, maybe one more for good measure in the center.

glue your joints with gorilla glue. This is a weak joint at this time, but sturdy enough for this aplication.

use care with gorilla glue, wear old clothes and don't glue the cab to the work table.

don't ask

screw your tops and bottoms to the sides, square up and clamp your cab and let dry over night.

buy a couple bags of FLUTED 1 1/4 dowels from Lowes or other such place. Fluted dowels are compressed and will swell when the glue is aplied making them even tighter. the flutes also allow glue to go past them. this is important because when you hammer them ever so gently into thier bores, the hydraulic action will not blow apart your wood.

don't ask

draw your scribe line between your screws 3/8 down from the edge. mark off where dowels will go, every 3/4 inch is about right, they may not be even. but no one will see after the covering is on.

chuck a 1/4" drill bit into your drill and measure 1 1/4 and attach a piece of tape as a depth guide.

work one side at a time, 1 hole at a time. leave the screws in, drill a hole,put some glue in, tap a dowel in, wash repeat rinse. use TITEBOND II, don't screw around with other glues, this works and works well.

after all the dowels are in, excess glue wiped off, let dry over night.

NOW you remove the screws, drill holes where the screws were and dowel them

IF you are careful you can trim the dowels that are sticking out with a SHARP chisel, but likely you'll experiment with a razor box knife(no way suggesting this).

Sand,fill  with wood filler where needed,(most of the dowels), sand again when dry.

Use 1/2" roundover bit in your router  on all outside edges, wood filler where needed and sand again.

use Denim material instead of tolex, it's cheap and rugged. glue down with spray on super 77 and it will last for years.

if you buy your denim on sale, $4

plywood for 1x12 cab $14

bottle of gorilla glue $5

bottle of titebond II $5

bag of dowels X2 $4

Super 77 $14

$ 46 total. can only be cheaper if you have any of these items already

This doesn't include baffle board or back boards.

believe me when I say this is STRONG, you're not skimping here, simple enough to get great results for a first timer with a table saw, router and a drill. might be able to sub a coffee mug for a hammer to drive the dowels, not recommended
Don't ask

[Casey4s]

Interesting, do you have any pictures you could post?  I am especially curious about the denim covering, I would think that glue would leach through the material, but I guess not.

[Boots Deville]

He's applying the denim with Super 77 which is a spray adhesive, so there isn't much to "leach through".  Maybe if you applied a really thick coat of it, but I don't think you'd need to.

My question is, why Gorilla Glue on the initial glue-up instead of Titebond?  Seems like you could use Titebond there too and save $5.

[Casey4s]

He's applying the denim with Super 77 which is a spray adhesive, so there isn't much to "leach through".  Maybe if you applied a really thick coat of it, but I don't think you'd need to.

My question is, why Gorilla Glue on the initial glue-up instead of Titebond?  Seems like you could use Titebond there too and save $5.

OK the spray on glue would prbably not leach through.   I woluld still like to see some photos of the finished piece. It sounds interesting.

EDIT:

This is what my joints look like on Walnut, most of the others are covered in Tolex.

[simonallaway]

I know you said not to ask, Stingray, but I want to hear the stories behind each time you said "Don't ask"

[stingray_65]

Interesting, do you have any pictures you could post?  I am especially curious about the denim covering, I would think that glue would leach through the material, but I guess not.

Ever hear of a tweed fender? basically the same material different color

[stingray_65]

He's applying the denim with Super 77 which is a spray adhesive, so there isn't much to "leach through".  Maybe if you applied a really thick coat of it, but I don't think you'd need to.

My question is, why Gorilla Glue on the initial glue-up instead of Titebond?  Seems like you could use Titebond there too and save $5.

That joint (basic box) is not what is considered a glue joint. basically glue does not stick to end grain.

I have used titebond in this very instance and it does work well. especially with the screws left in during the doweling.

I'll do a step by step.

A sort of beginners guide to building a box cab.

I'll use only a table saw, router, drill, hammer, square and pipe clamps. Heck you don't really even need a ruler proper.

Ray

The gorilla glue holds just a tad better, and I have a case of 2 oz bottles so no extra cost.

[Casey4s]

"....make a simple doweled box joint.

do this by drilling a pilot hole in the sides, just big enough for the screws to pass. drill thrm 3/8 down from the edge (half material thickness) and 3/4 from edges, maybe one more for good measure in the center."

Do you have any pictures of this jig?  Your assembly instructions are a bit vague to me.

[bluesbear]

Here's Freud's instructions again.

http://www.freudtools.com/images/manuals/SBOX8-Manual.pdf

Dave

[knotscott]

For those interested in a bargain box joint set, Oshlun makes one that's pretty similar to the Freud, but typically sells for less $.  I haven't tried this specific set personally, but have tried a couple of their blades with good results, and have read favorable comments from others who've used it.  I've used a lot of premium blades, and the Oshlun blades I've tried are surprisingly well made for the price.  

http://www.toolhouseinc.com/oshlun-sbj-0830-8-inch-box-and-finger-joint-set.html?___store=default
http://www.amazon.com/Oshlun-SBJ-0830-8-Inch-Finger-Joint/dp/B0012YIL2W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1287783977&sr=8-2

A decent quality stacked dado set will work fairly well for box joints too, but most dado sets use beveled teeth on the outside cutters that don't leave as flat of a bottom.  The better sets stagger flat ground teeth in between the beveled teeth to help make the bottom groove flatter, so it's barely even noticeable unless you go looking for it.  

[G._Hoffman]

I've used a jig similar to to one above and gotten inconsistent results. Sometimes it was perfect and other times I couldn't get a consistent cut- I couldn't get the tolerance tight enough to do wider cabinets around 12 to 14 inches deep. If the jig was off 2 thousands at one end of the board it'd be 1/16" out by the other end. Shimming the dado jig and carefully adjusting it would fix it but it'd only take a few cabs and it'd be out of adjustment again. I have a hunch my craftsmanship wasn't up to par because I was having a hard time getting repeatable results!

I found a different design in a vintage woodworking book from the 50's and modified it for modern usage. The aluminum comb portion was purchased from Grizzly Tools- it's a comb that fits the inexpensive dovetail jig sold by grizzly, harbor freight and others. The notches are 1/4" apart and each notch fits perfectly tight on the non-threaded shank of a metric 8mm bolt. This bolt indexes the comb portion of the jig which has the work clamped to it. It's just wide enough to do a 14" long board so I can do a full sized marshall 4x12. It relies on the tolerance between the bolt and the comb and to a lesser extent how precisely the sled fits in dado slots. It makes it possible for me to get repeatable results without having to constantly check to make sure it still fits together.

The other benefit is the ability to cut four or more boards at a time!



http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamietyson/sets/72157623333083301/

That is SO damn good.


I've been very unhappy with all the methods I've tried in the past.  Even when I could get acceptable results with the more common table saw jig, by the time you get to the end of a really long side you are always off by just a bit.  When I made my first attempt at my Leslie, I was dealing with an 18" long box joint.  Even .001" of error on the individual cuts lead to 1/32" overall.  Not acceptable, at least to me.  And router jigs were even worse, because when you rout across the grain like that you are almost guaranteed to get some degree of tear out.  The thing I really like about that is the templates are cheap enough that you can try it without spending too much money on the project. 

Thank you for sharing that.  I'm a damn fine woodworker, but amp cabinets are a lot different from guitars, and that will make my life a lot easier.


Gabriel

[bluesbear]

I think that people are having more trouble with the set-up of the table saw than anything else. They have to be adjusted and tightened up occasionally. It has to be right! I have a dedicated table saw, never used for anything else. It took a while to get right but once there, I've never had a problem with it.
The deal is, you've got to find what works for you. It's obvious that it's different for each person.
Dave

[Casey4s]

I think that people are having more trouble with the set-up of the table saw than anything else. They have to be adjusted and tightened up occasionally. It has to be right! I have a dedicated table saw, never used for anything else. It took a while to get right but once there, I've never had a problem with it.
The deal is, you've got to find what works for you. It's obvious that it's different for each person.
Dave

That's why I prefer a router to a saw, I can set up from scratch in about 5 minutes and there is no "run out". I have just never liked Dado blades on a table saw.  But everyone has their own preferences and working style.

[Shrapnel]

I just wish I had the ability for even half a setup right now for wood working. As an apartment dweller, it is hard to store a table saw, sander, jointer, or even a table-router and have it handy without too much noise or taking up living space.

[stingray_65]

I just wish I had the ability for even half a setup right now for wood working. As an apartment dweller, it is hard to store a table saw, sander, jointer, or even a table-router and have it handy without too much noise or taking up living space.

I know of several wood workers who rent a storage locker for a work shop.

Most lumber yards will cut to your dimensions fairly reasonably too

[Boots Deville]

I thought I'd share today's project with y'all...

Here's another joint you can do that I think it pretty strong - lots of surface area for the glue to grab onto.

This is a GA-5 I built this past week using Doug's "Schedule 40" schematic.  Today I'm building a small cab for it out of 1/2" Baltic birch.

Hopefully you can tell from the picture what I've done.  I haven't glued it up yet, so I slid the top back for the photo to give a better shot of what the joint looks like.

I did this using my router with a 1/4" straight bit mounted in my router table. Pretty quick work if you have a router/table.

Just another option.

[supro66]

I agree with BOOTS

Dove tails are nice but they don't add to the sound

use K.I.S.S

Keep It Simple Stupid

I have a wood shop

Build wishing well

I built a Supro Thunderbold 6420 got the speaker just aint got around to the Cabinet yet

I am going to make a Head and a speaker box

I like my controls at hand can't bend over as well now

[JayB]

I thought I'd share today's project with y'all...

Here's another joint you can do that I think it pretty strong - lots of surface area for the glue to grab onto.

This is a GA-5 I built this past week using Doug's "Schedule 40" schematic.  Today I'm building a small cab for it out of 1/2" Baltic birch.

Hopefully you can tell from the picture what I've done.  I haven't glued it up yet, so I slid the top back for the photo to give a better shot of what the joint looks like.

I did this using my router with a 1/4" straight bit mounted in my router table. Pretty quick work if you have a router/table.

Just another option.

That's what I use for most of the cabs I've made. I have a nice easy dovetail jig set up for solid wood cabs if I do any. Dove tail or finger joints in any plywood just isn't the best idea.

[BarryW]

I like dovetail jigs, quick and easy - I use the porter cable version, and believe me, I'm a total rank amateur.  It makes me look pretty good.  ;^}

Thanks to everybody for their good suggestions, this is a cool thread.