Herzog inspired toy!

[SILVERGUN]

While taking a little time off from some other projects I decided to have a little fun and make a new toy for a buddy of mine who tried out the Herzog experiment and really enjoyed it. He's a no-frills guy and just wanted a straight OD boost to put in front of his DRRI.
This was a very fun build except for the fact that I was trying to stuff 5 lbs. of chicken in a 2 lb. bag again.
My biggest failure was that I was unable to keep the power tube under the protection of the back porch because I ran out of room. He promised he'll never drop it, and I promised that I would charge him to fix it if he did.

This is a Hammond enclosure, 10" x 8" x 3", and I should've gone with the 4" high version so as to benefit from 80 more square inches. 

I built it to last, with NO bells or whistles, over-rated PT, OT and bridge rectifier. I feel like this is some of the best work that I have done to date, except for the few inevitable mistakes. The most obvious of which was that the output control worked in reverse because I had the pot hooked up backwards. The good news is that it fired up the first time and just worked right off the bat, so that is a pleasant change from the norm. I also got lucky and it turned out quiet as a mouse, so I must be doing something right. For now he'll take it and try it before we start tweaking it, but I think it's more than he wanted, so I may never see it again.

Anyway, I figured you guys would enjoy it, and just take it for what it's worth,,,a good solid, all tube, Little Black Boost Box....the LB3

[SILVERGUN]

More

[SILVERGUN]

And yet, still more...

[sluckey]

Very nice! I really like those kinda projects.

[John]

Wow, that is nice work!

[eleventeen]

Most clean! Very nicely done.

[kagliostro]

COOL


Franco

[SILVERGUN]

Hey, THANKS guys!
This really was a lot of fun to build and has turned out well,,and I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it all.

I've got some great role models here including ALL of you, and I appreciate the positive feedback.

I thought some of you might be interested in the power transformer that I used for this build, because it was cheap and has an extra 6.3vac winding, so adding a relay will be a cinch. I bought an extra one of these for a future project and the guy was very happy to give me combined shipping because 2 of them fit inside the flat rate box.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Guitar-Power-Transformer-50VA-200V-180V-0-6-3V-6-3V-p-n-AS-05T200-/371080906626?pt=BI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item5666254782

[andyfromdenver]

Super cool build!
I want to DL the schematic when I get to work and a real computer :)

[TubeGeek]

  Nice!

[chocopower]

We want sound samples!!!!!!!

[SILVERGUN]

We want sound samples!!!!!!!

OK, cool...I stayed last night and was messing around with it and really liked the cranked feel I was getting.
I'll try it again and see if I can get something decent recorded that will come across like it sounds in person.

The biggest thing to me is the feel of the guitar. It makes the strings really want to vibrate in your hands and notes just ring out and sustain for days.
One of the guys here described it as a Big Muff with clarity.

The cool thing to me is that you can get a great punchy, sustainy tone at low volume because the amp you run it through can be set low. But you can also mess with the input gain on the main amp and get a powerful clean boost. At higher gain settings it wants to jump into feedback pretty easily.

I took some of what TubeGeek said about the over the top gain of the Garnet and harnessed it, and used a tone control so you can dial out some of the harsh treble. Mine is more of a higher gain Champ with a 5E3 type tone control. Right now I wouldn't change a thing about it, except making it switchable, which would be very simple because of the spare winding,,,if I had a little more room.
I get a little bit of blocking distortion with the Gain control set on 10, but it clears up as soon as I roll it back to 9, and sounds great on 8. Someone might actually like it on 10.

[tubenit]

I really like the innovative approaches that you're taking!  Bravo!

with respect, Tubenit

[eleventeen]

Really a classy and cute project and so nicely executed. Heartiest congratulations!


I imagine it could also be a headphone amp with the addition of a (stereo, with both sides shorted) output jack, a resistor or two, and an output level control. Could use the other side of the output tranny (or, use a SPDT switch to take the headphone-feed section out of the circuit) so it wouldn't interfere with the "boost" function, in case there was a nice preset you wanted to retain on the boost side.


Tasty!

[SILVERGUN]

I really like the innovative approaches that you're taking!  Bravo!

Well, once again I picked some of this up from you.
By experimenting with the 6K6 on the TBM I found a quality about it that I really liked,,,,and seeing how we don't really need a lot of output power here, I found it to be a perfect tube for the spot, especially with the low B+ that I wanted to use. 280V plates is right where these things want to be, from what I can tell. And since this is meant to be a distortion box, I thought the 6K6 excelled at dirty over clean. Plus, cheap and available meant win-win.

[Ed_Chambley]

I want one.  Really!

[SILVERGUN]

I want one.  Really!

Me too....get in line

Here's the Hammond box I used:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1458G3.pdf

[terminalgs]

very cool!

assembly, layout, and design looks very well thought out!

[printer2]

I built an amp with 6K6's and really like them. It is a P-P amp but I have a Champ styled amp and am thinking of changing it to 6K6 from 6V6 since the power out is not all that different and I have 20 6K6's and only two 6V6's. On the 'boost box' front I was planning on building a 57 Bassman or Plexi in a small enclosure using 6AK6's for the output tubes and laying the tubes flat. I hope I can make as clean a job or constructing it. I am more a 'just get the job done ' kind of guy. Nice work.

[Tone Junkie]

Looks like a cool OD Pedel SG.

[shortfuse]

We want sound samples!!!!!!!

And very nice build but we want sound samples

[TeslaRect5150]

Awesome project. Looks excellent! 
Reminds me of an old tube car radio. I think the 6v6/6k6 type tube was designed for use in car radios. ???
Something neat...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-DELCO-CAR-RADIO-TUBES-GM-LOT-OF-7-MAY-BE-NEW-/191202742219?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c84924fcb&vxp=mtr

Have you tried it into some nice headphones for late night jamming'?

Peace,
Aaron

[TIMBO]

Cool GIZMO. 

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks again for all of the responses and positivity guys...
Now that TIMBO has joined us, I guess I should post a clip.   

A friend of mine stopped over to check it out for himself, and just started riffing, so I hit record and this is what came out....I don't know if he tuned his guitar, but if you can get past that, I think it's an OK example of what it sounds like here.

The main amp is a Traynor YBA-1 that I just installed a PPIMV on for a guy....PPIMV on 5 and we are plugged into channel 1 with that volume set on about 3.
Setup like that, the YBA is pretty clean and just kinda flat sounding.

We both had earplugs in and it was real loud without them, so it wasn't optional. That makes it difficult to hear what's happening, but here it is.

Honestly, the LB3 is not very versatile, and I couldn't tell much difference between the different gain/tone/vol. settings, except that the treble gets rolled off pretty quick below 6 on the tone knob setting. But, I do think it is cool at what it does do.
We had the Gain on about 7, Tone on 8 and the Output Vol on about 3-4

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12829677&q=hi

printer2, I like your ideas and I've been watching what you've been up to,,,please post whatever you wind up trying. 

TeslaRect5150, I never looked at it like that , but you're right....maybe we all need a dash mounted LB3?

[TIMBO]

Nice work SG, I like it. 

[printer2]

printer2, I like your ideas and I've been watching what you've been up to,,,please post whatever you wind up trying. 

Sure does sound loud.

Probably will not be before winter. I am finishing up an amp right now and will be starting to build a couple of acoustic guitars while the weather permits. When snow is on the ground and it is -20 the garage is not as inviting a place. Thanks for the interest, I can not remeber if I posted anything on my current build, if not I may start a thread.

[Ed_Chambley]

I want one.  Really!

Me too....get in line

Here's the Hammond box I used:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/1458G3.pdf

You don't understand.  You are building mine.  Of course after I send you the parts and a couple of ideas I have for it.  I have too much going on with learning to do video and recording.  Not to mention I have 4 amps to finish.

[HotBluePlates]

Outstanding work & final product SG!! I mean really great! I think that would easily rival a similar commercial product.

[Tone Junkie]

I like it, its got a good bite to it. But also but very clear and sounds like it would cut thru the mix well.
Bill

[SILVERGUN]

You don't understand.  You are building mine.  Of course after I send you the parts and a couple of ideas I have for it.  I have too much going on with learning to do video and recording.  Not to mention I have 4 amps to finish.

Oh,,,well since you put it like that...I'll schedule you in...right now it's lookin like I have an opening in 2017 
...you know I'm just kidding,,, PM or call me

Outstanding work & final product SG!! I mean really great! I think that would easily rival a similar commercial product.

You know, every once in a while I get a little delusional and think I could actually sell something,,,,and then I come around and realize what a nightmare that must be......
I met you guys about 15 years too late  ...the market is gone

Thanks for the thumbs up!....the more I look at sluckeys (and others) work, the harder I try to be clean and make something to be proud of

I like it, its got a good bite to it. But also but very clear and sounds like it would cut thru the mix well.
Bill

It's definitely got BITE
And there is one big thing to keep in mind....as HBP pointed out in a different "Herzog" discussion thread...
You will need to be careful not to damage your speaker(s) with the higher output that this thing pushes through your amp.

He suggested having twice the "normal" power handling per speaker,,,,and now I understand why,,,,,this thing makes your amp move air, and is VERY punchy!

One thing is....I don't know if you could crank the main amp without too much resulting noise / feedback,,,so I don't know if you'd ever exceed max. output,,,but it's definitely something to consider.
I wouldn't plan on cranking this through my cranked Deluxe Reverb through a 1x12"

[Stankfut]

Very nice! Looks good, too!


But the bad news.....I was looking forward to doing a Herzog, but I must of missed HBP's comment, so I don't think I have a speaker cab that can handle using one Oh, well......

[HotBluePlates]

But the bad news.....I was looking forward to doing a Herzog, but I must of missed HBP's comment, so I don't think I have a speaker cab that can handle using one

My suggestion was that for any amp, the speaker(s) should be rated for double the clean output power of the amp.

The reason is that peak power of a sine wave is double the RMS power. Normally, you'd only care about the RMS power. But if you apply infinite distortion to a sine wave, you get a square wave. A square wave's peak power equals its RMS power. This implies for any amp, the RMS power when distorted may be as much as double the clean RMS power.

The suggestion has nothing to do with the Herzog, other than the Herzog almost guarantees you'll be playing square waves. Really, it's a good guideline to know you won't be blowing speakers.

[jojokeo]

Wish I'd seen this sooner. Very nice SG! I'd rather hear you demo it than that guy. Is that your schem & design? Your layout skillz bring a smile  I've been looking to get some of those trannies from John to experiment with for several years now & still haven't got around to it. I have a few toroid questions too such as something about the mounting you have to be real careful of so it doesn't short, etc...he wasn't real helpful as far as using them how we'd like, so that didn't help jump start my enthusiasm for them & instead have used Hammonds, Stancor, Classic Tone, & other usual stuff.

[SILVERGUN]

Wish I'd seen this sooner. Very nice SG! I'd rather hear you demo it than that guy. Is that your schem & design? Your layout skillz bring a smile 

Thanks man...there is a little clip of me demoing it, but it's one of my typical terrible recordings.....
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17356.msg174021#new

The box kinda dictated the layout and the rest just wrote itself,,,and I made a little extra effort to keep it clean.

My favorite part is the 100Watt power resistor that just fit right in there and had it's own mounting tabs....I don't think i'll be exceeding that power rating anytime soon 

Let me know if you want me to ship it out to you...I'd love to get a pro opinion on this thing 

[jojokeo]

Okay, I heard that yesterday when I stumbled onto the thread and in fact I was improv'ing along with you. I really like that tempo and simple groove. I practiced hitting the modes too. This kind of demo (& you) sounds much better than Mr Rocker dude noodling around as there's no sustained notes to hear the feedback reaction or notes trailing off, or any other little nuances, etc.

Not trying to be nit-picky (is that a tubenit pun? T -just teasing  ) but it's interesting that you have the OT's common grounded as it should be but then have it wired to the output pot's input lug. You have the 4ohm tap going to the normally grounded lug BUT it doesn't appear to be grounded? If this is so, then the pot's wired up as a variable resistance and not a voltage divider that the schem shows. It's also hard to tell if the 100k is only coming off the wiper lug (but it almost appears that it's soldered to both lugs 2 AND 3)? If true then it confirms the pot being variable resistance & maybe explains some of the control's behavior?

Double duty use: Since you're only using the 4ohm winding for this circuit, if you ever wanted to you could simply wire up to the green 8R winding to a switched output jack (plugging in would open Herzog circuit & winding or vice versa) and it would then be that simple to use as a basic small practice amp also yes? Just label them properly to not confuse the jacks! 

Lastly is the 100k 3watter power rating important to have this size or are you just being extra cautious (it's not noted on the schem that way)?

[SILVERGUN]

Okay, I heard that yesterday when I stumbled onto the thread and in fact I was improv'ing along with you. I really like that tempo and simple groove. I practiced hitting the modes too. This kind of demo (& you) sounds much better than Mr Rocker dude noodling around as there's no sustained notes to hear the feedback reaction or notes trailing off, or any other little nuances, etc.

Cool,,,yeah, I agree.....and I'm glad to hear you're still at it 

Not trying to be nit-picky (is that a tubenit pun? T -just teasing  ) but it's interesting that you have the OT's common grounded as it should be but then have it wired to the output pot's input lug. You have the 4ohm tap going to the normally grounded lug BUT it doesn't appear to be grounded? If this is so, then the pot's wired up as a variable resistance and not a voltage divider that the schem shows.

Good eyes buddy...I'm going to have to look back over it and confirm or deny your suspicions...
I really appreciate you taking the time to look it over that closely, and I would never mind if you were able to catch an error by eye.......that's some troubleshooting-ninja type stuff there, my friend 

Double duty use: Since you're only using the 4ohm winding for this circuit, if you ever wanted to you could simply wire up to the green 8R winding to a switched output jack (plugging in would open Herzog circuit & winding or vice versa) and it would then be that simple to use as a basic small practice amp also yes? Just label them properly to not confuse the jacks! 

Absolutely yes, and I only left it out because I was building it for one specific guy and I didn't want to give HIM the option of just using it as a standalone amp. Of course,,,I got it done and he didn't like the price, so it's still "in stock"
I also kinda ran out of real estate.

It's also hard to tell if the 100k is only coming off the wiper lug (but it almost appears that it's soldered to both lugs 2 AND 3)? If true then it confirms the pot being variable resistance & maybe explains some of the control's behavior?

Lastly is the 100k 3watter power rating important to have this size or are you just being extra cautious (it's not noted on the schem that way)?

I only used the 3 watter for it's robust leads, 'cause I wanted to just have it suspended between the pot and output jack.
It IS only soldered to the wiper of the output pot, and I 'thought' that the secondary is wired just as it appears in the schematic.

When I took the pic, I had it wired backwards and the output control worked in reverse (i.e. turn up for lower output)....fixed that

I didn't consciously ground the secondary to the circuit ground other than through the output jack body being attached to the chassis.....(now that I think about it)