Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum

Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: kagliostro on December 12, 2016, 02:32:24 am

Title: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 12, 2016, 02:32:24 am
I'm planning an SE amp with 2 x 6SL7 + 1 x 6SJ7 + 1 x 1625 (@ 350V - plate 50mA - G2 5mA max)

at the first I was thinking to use this transformer (270V @ 80mA - 14V @ 2A)

http://www.musikding.de/Toroidal-transformer-230V-270V-14V (http://www.musikding.de/Toroidal-transformer-230V-270V-14V)

then I've think it will be better to use this transformer (250V @ 100mA - 6.3V @ 1.5A - 12.6V @ 1A)

https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-47VA::5391.html (https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-47VA::5391.html)

But ..... but this morning I remembered a recent post from PRR

(this is an extract)


(http://i.imgur.com/ELLlNwJ.gif)

so, of those 100mA @ 250V I can obtain only 62mA @ 350V DC

and the other transformer (80mA @ 270V) obviously is less, 49mA @ 378V DC

Always when thinking to buy a transformer I look to the availability of current declared by the seller

but I think they declare the AC rating, not the DC rating

Must I use a bigger transformer like this ? (250V @ 120mA - 6.3V @ 3A - 12.6V @ 1A)

https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-62VA::5322.html (https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-62VA::5322.html)

Thanks

Franco






Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: HotBluePlates on December 12, 2016, 09:22:19 am
... But ..... but this morning I remembered a recent post from PRR
...
so, of those 100mA @ 250V I can obtain only 62mA @ 350V DC
... I think they declare the AC rating, not the DC rating

The "AC Rating" of current is directly related to the VA rating of the transformer.  However, most often transformers for tube amps do not specify the high voltage secondary in terms of that "AC Current".  Instead, they often provide a d.c. current rating of what can be drawn after rectification.

You can only verify one way or the other if you have the total VA rating of the transformer, along with the individual secondary ratings.

It would seem you can use any of the transformersa you mentioned (within constraints of heater voltage/current)
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 12, 2016, 11:08:21 am
Ciao HotBluePlates, Thanks

About this transformer, nothing is told about VA, only output voltages and currents

http://www.musikding.de/Toroidal-transformer-230V-270V-14V (http://www.musikding.de/Toroidal-transformer-230V-270V-14V)

but those other transformers has a VA rating

This is rated 47VA

https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-47VA::5391.html (https://www.tube-town.net/ttstore/Transformer/Power-Transformer/Toroidal/Toroidal-47VA::5391.html)

250V @ 100mA - 6.3V @ 1.5A - 12.6V @ 1A

so

250 x 0.1 = 25 (VA or something like that)

6.3 x 1.5 = 9.45 (VA)

12.6 x 1 = 12.6 (VA)

25VA + 9.45VA + 12.6VA = 47.05VA (close to the spec of the seller)

the other is rated for 62VA

250V @ 120mA - 6.3V @ 3A - 12.6V @ 1A

250 x 0.12 = 30 VA

6.3 x 3 = 18.9 VA

12.6 x 1 = 12.6 VA

30VA + 18.9VA + 12.6VA = 61.5VA

---

For the other transformer I think it is the same thing also if they didn't specify the VA rating

---

so I think I can only use the 62VA transformer (250V @ 120mA - 6.3V @ 3A - 12.6V @ 1A)

Am I wrong ? Can the 47VA transformer be used ?

Franco


Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: HotBluePlates on December 12, 2016, 11:49:29 am
Can the 47VA transformer be used ?

Your first post stated you only needed ~55mA (plus a few for the preamp).  You've got plenty of margin, even with Hammond's derating to 0.62 * Current.
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 12, 2016, 02:13:39 pm
Thanks HBP

so the 47VA seems to have enough juice

this is  the schematic (near definitive I hope)

(http://i.imgur.com/EU2s8U7.jpg)

I know the power tube presumed consumption, and I can think about few mA for the preamp tubes

but I've no idea about the consumption of the tube used as oscillator (??)

100 x 0.62 = 62

62 - 55 = 7mA

Franco
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: HotBluePlates on December 12, 2016, 05:10:54 pm
It's not that critical.  Go a few milliamps over and you might get a few volts less on that secondary, which will mean nothing compared to the overall B+ voltage.
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 12, 2016, 05:30:44 pm
Yes, that has sense also because the filament windings will not be used at max


Thanks again

Franco
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 13, 2016, 06:11:26 am
Quote
The "AC Rating" of current is directly related to the VA rating of the transformer.  However, most often transformers for tube amps do not specify the high voltage secondary in terms of that "AC Current".  Instead, they often provide a d.c. current rating of what can be drawn after rectification.

http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB290CAX.pdf (http://www.hammondmfg.com/pdf/EDB290CAX.pdf)

Quote
This is the universal version of the 290AEX
Fender Powertransformer for Champ, Vibro Champ, Princeton, Princeton Reverb, Tweed Deluxe
Fender Part Number 125P1B and 022772

is correct to say that Hammond indicate the AC disposable current ?

Franco
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: sluckey on December 13, 2016, 06:27:09 am
Absolutely. Specifically says so right in the electrical data table.
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 13, 2016, 07:23:40 am
Thanks Steve

it was not so clare to me (that they refer to AC and not to DC)

(http://i.imgur.com/o9SKPma.jpg)

Franco
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: sluckey on December 13, 2016, 08:12:18 am
"115mA rms" is the clue.
Title: Re: Is this transformer wrong for this purpose ?
Post by: kagliostro on December 13, 2016, 08:30:24 am
rms .... OK

Thanks

Franco