Toroid PT's

[Willabe]

Hi All,

I know Doug has very good trans. at very good $$$ at his store, not to mention his "stato- sled" delivery, but I have wanted to do a build with a Toroid PT for a while now. Anybody here ever heard of AnTek Transformer (antekinc.com)? Their in New Jersey (?). Looks like there's several that they make that would work great for a build. The $$$ sure looks good.

Any feed back would be appreciated.

        Thanks,     Brad          

[HotBluePlates]

No, I'm pretty sure they're in China. But there is a NJ address for taking your money.

Someone here on the forum has built something with their stuff. I'm pretty sure it turned out fine.

But you don't need to use a toroid. There are also some subtle disadvantages to using them, though you probably won't run into those issues in a power transformer (you might with a toroid OT).

[FYL]

Antek has some really nice PTs (no experience with their OTs). Well designed (in the US), well built (in China), very fairly priced.

[stingray_65]

Hi All,

I know Doug has very good trans. at very good $$$ at his store, not to mention his "stato- sled" delivery, but I have wanted to do a build with a Toroid PT for a while now. Anybody here ever heard of AnTek Transformer (antekinc.com)? There in New Jersey (?). Looks like there's several that they make that would work great for a build. The $$$ sure looks good.

Any feed back would be appreciated.

        Thanks,     Brad         

I'm curious as to why you are considering toroids?

Not that I am against trying new things, but in the tube amp world, nothings new, ask Tubenitt.

*************OPINION ALERT**********

Toroid transformers have some very specific advantages. But I cannot see those advantages "fixing" anything in a tube guitar amp.

for power transformers the lower magnetic flux is generally not an issue unless you have a very crowded small chassis in a small combo cab.

In such cases, z mount PT's gives more room and turns the flux field 90 degrees in a different axis.

Toroidal OT's are generally built for HiFi use and have too wide of a frequency response making them a second choice for guitar amps. (might be a good idea for bass amp) although you may be looking for that ultimate headroom uber clean sound which might fit the bill too.

There are also safety issues with using toroidal PT's in that primary and secondary windings are interleaved and have a REMOTE possibility of having shorted conditions that can cause the tranny to not be isolated from the mains.

Although the possibility is very remote and minuscule the results can be permanently fatal. These conditions are considered acceptable in HiFi applications because you lack the ground that a microphone provides that guitarist often use.

I AM NOT TRYING TO BASH AN IDEA

I love  when people think outside of the box and applaud it!

I've looked at using toroids and have decided they don't have a PRACTICAL application in guitar amps.

YOU MAY COME TO A VERY DIFFERENT CONCLUSION

( USING CAPS FOR EMPHASIS NOT SHOUTING) 

I'm also basing my opinion on a lot of assumptions on my part. You give little detail about your intended application. For all I know you may be building a nice stereo tube amp for an iPod or something and all this typing is moot.

I've not read of any bad things about ANTEK trannies performance. A lot of bang for the buck if it's used for the right application.


Ray

[Willabe]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies.

Ahh, the old NJ address taking your $$$ plan (Maxwell Smart)    

stingray_65, I want to do a small build maybe TOS or COS, with verb, PS (VVR) it and include KOC"s "sag" control with it, which I've been wanting to try. They work/play off of each other, although they can be used by them selves. With the sag cir. I wont need the rectifer tube for the sag effect, so I thought I'd use a full wave bridge. So now I wont need a HT CT or the 5v sec. Anteck has toroid's with the sec. I'll need for this schem. I also like the idea that they are smaller, lighter and have a smaller magnetic field as I favor a Strat. Should be less noise injected back into my pickups, so I've read, and would like to see how true this is. Plus the $$$ seems good, if they are indeed nice trans. When I put it all together, it seems like a good choice, but I've been wrong before  

I have never heard anyone mention before about the safty issue you bring up, and that does not make me feel very comfortable.  :shocked:  After all the dumb things I've done in my life and thankfully have lived through, I realy dont need to throw the dice on just a build. Maybe I need to re-think this.

    Thanks,     Brad    

        

[PRR]

The NJ address is between Par-Metal Products and American Wholesale Services, a low-rent small industrial block, but I don't see their door. It is possible AnTek rents a shelf in Par-Metal to hold a small stock and put it onto US delivery services. It might even be run by Par-Metal. Certainly the heavy work is done in China.

The insulation issue is probably moot. Toroids are WIDELY used and don't kill a lot of people. Varnish has got better, and they can also wind plastic tape between primary and secondary.

The "smaller size" comes with less tolerance for unbalanced DC. If both output bottles are balanced to 5% of peak current (say 5mA for small 6V6, 20mA for large 6L6), performance is better than E-I construction; if balance is worse performance degrades quickly. DIY guitar amps are on the edge. Your call.

The only two OTs in stock today seem awful large for guitar. Aside from weight, much of the "sound" of e-guitar is manufacturers trying cheaper/smaller iron until sound goes from perfect to colored to yuck, and picking something in the "colored" zone. Those irons may be "too perfect" for many guitar sounds.

Anyway they look wrong. And in stage-amps, looks are important.

[Willabe]

Thanks,  PRR.  that makes me feel better. (dont kill a lot of people     )   


But I'm not looking at OT's........   I'm wanting to use a toroid Power Trans. I've read enough here and else were to see the OT's place in a guitar amps sound.
Just was wondering about using a toroid Pt, for the reasons I wrote above.

     Thanks,    Brad

[FYL]

It might even be run by Par-Metal.

Same shareholders, same management led by John Ango. Par-Metal = enclosures, Antek (Ango Technology Corp) = transformers.

[andrew_k]

I used one for a 2x KT88 amp using this power supply.
I'm very happy with the PT.

[Willabe]

andrew-k,

Who's toroid are you using?   Over +650vdc ?   That high of voltage still worries me, but Im a big chicken.    


   Thanks,   Brad        

[HotBluePlates]

Over +650vdc ?   That high of voltage still worries me, but Im a big chicken.    

It's a "must" when you use KT88's or 6550's and want to make big power output.

Note the 2nd power supply kicking out a little over half-650v. That's the screen voltage supply. If you keep the screens at a sane voltage, plate current doesn't go so high as to melt the plate. Add much higher plate voltage, and you get good plate current x bigger plate voltage swing = bigger power output.

That's not something you really need to do in 6L6 or (typical-) EL34 guitar amps, or with smaller output tubes. But for 200-300w with a quad of (big) output tubes, this is a common technique.

[EL34]

why is this post in the tools board?

[Fresh_Start]

Brad - I've been itching to try an Antek torroidal PT for a while too.  Can't really explain it other than wanting to try something different and the possibility of less noise with single coil pickups.

I used one for a 2x KT88 amp using this power supply.
I'm very happy with the PT.

That's a pretty cool power supply.  I like it!  Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

Chip

[andrew_k]

andrew-k,

Who's toroid are you using?   Over +650vdc ?   That high of voltage still worries me, but Im a big chicken.    

http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=57
650V should scare you. What's your DMM rated to? 600V or 1kV? What about that hookup wire? 350v? 600v? 1000v? If you're using bigger bottles like KT88 or 6550 and not giving the plates some real juice you may as well use 6L6 or similar. In my entirely biased and uneducated opinion, of course!

That's a pretty cool power supply.  I like it!  Thanks for sharing.

You're more than welcome. I believe it was you who shared the blackface/brownface vibroverb design, right? I have a box of parts marked "überverb" put aside to build it. One day I'll find time!!