Replacing Midi Reverb Tank In Boogie with full size Tank

[Platefire]

When I bought the Mesa Boogie about 3 years ago it was with the knowledge that the reverb tank was broke and given to me in a plastic bag. The midi tank that fits inside the chassis. One spring is broke off of it as shown in picture. The in and out wiring for the midi tank had plastic female plugs on the end of the wiring that plugs in to double pin connectors on board in two locations as shown on pix.

I decided at that time I would install a full size Accutronics tank to replace the midi tank. I coordinated with Accutronics regarding this, matching Ohms and they made me a special tank for it. That's been three years and I have procrastinated about installing it until now. I've been using a Boss RV3 for reverb and delay. So this is rather unknown territory I'm trodding on so I would appreciate someone to look over my shoulder on this.

Plan to test and install is on next post:

[Platefire]

This is my plan:
1-Remove the two connectors wires from the old midi tank.
2-Use an old single RCA cable, cut it into where you have two equal length RCA male plugs with raw wire on the other end. This will be used to test the connections and operation only.
3-Make a temporary connection with the hot/ground wires of each RCA bare ends with the in and out leads removed from the midi tank.
4-Plug the RCA ends into the large Accutronics tank and plug the plastic female connectors into the two pin male connectors on board.
5-Turn amp on and test reverb with large tank connected and sitting adjacent to open chassis.
6-If reverb works correctly, drill back of chassis, install two female RCA connectors and connect bare ends of old mini tank in/out wiring to female RCA's--off course with plastic female plugs connected to board.
7-Purshase long sheilded RCA's, Build a reverb tank bag, mount tank in bottom of cab and run RCA in and outs from tank to female RCA's in/outs at back of chassis.

If you see any holes in my plan, please let me know!!! Attached is the schematic for the reverb circuit. Thanks, Platefire  

[Willabe]

Plate what do you mean by "midi tank"?

                   
                   Brad     

[FYL]

No technical problems, except a lack of "dwell" control on the amp - IMO a must with FS tanks.

[Platefire]

Willabe

Boy you up late, you need to go to bed and get some sleep!   I hear the bed callen me!

I mean a very small reverb Tank. Just look at the picture of the two tanks side by side and you can see what I mean. The guy that sold me the Boogie said the reverb didn't sound good even before it broke---so I'm hoping this normal size reverb tank I can get to work and sound much better. I'm flying by the seat of my pants on this one but hoping somehow it will work!
Platefire

[Willabe]

Yes, your right my friend, I'm on my way now.    

Just finished soldering up the eyelet board on my new build.

So you mean  their small tank, OK. WOW! That tank is way small!

Might still be a problem though because of Mesa's verb drive might not be enough.


                       Brad      

[Platefire]

I guess Willabe will be sleeping in this morning.  

Thanks FYL for giving the plan a run through.

I've got some questions about the board plug in hookup?

1-Im not really sure which set of double pins on the board is in and out. Nothing on the board to indicate that. I'm thinking the the set of pins in the middle is "in" and the set next to the corner edge of the board are "out" based on the components close by as on the schematic. Also I think the red/ground wiring from leads cut of old tank would be in and the green/black would be out?? Nothing on the schematic or board to to indicate that though! Juat guessing.

2-Also on each set of connection pins on board there is an "H" by one and a "2" by the other for a single "H2". I'm thinking the H is for "Hot" the "2" is for ground???  

If this is grid level connection hopefully it won't burn up anything if I get these crossed when plugging them in to the board. Platefire

[Platefire]

Yaaa! Reverb test with temporary testing hookup was successful!  

FYL is right about lack of controls/dwell.  I don't think the circuit there is getting the best out of
that tank. I've got the same tank with the exception of Ohm match up in two other amps and can tell
on extrem settings it's not getting the depth/surfer sound as the others. The good news is for my purposes, I use very lite reverb because I use slight delay--so all is well. Too much reverb with delay gets way to spacey for me. So with this, I've got all the reverb I'll ever need at about 4 to 6 on the dial.

Now to build a bag to house in at bottom of cab, install RCA female in/out and secure some good low noise RCA cables.

Question??? Does the open side of the tank need a cover over where the springs are showing or would you just slide the tank in to the housing bag open side down and thats it? Can't remember for sure but seem my last one mounted had a cardboard cover over that open bottom side--not sure? Platefire

[Willabe]

I thought it wouldn't have enough drive for the tank. The dwell control only lessens the drive.

Old Fenders used a cardboard bottom (to protect the guts when taking the tank in/out of the bag) and then slid it into the bag. A piece of steel would give full shielding.


                         Brad        

[Platefire]

OK! I thought I remembered a cover. I'll probably go with cardboard unless I have some kind of a noise issue. How about tin foil glued securly to the cardboard.  The amp is tall like a super reverb, so the cables will have to be kinda long---3 to 3.5 feet. Plate

[Willabe]

How about tin foil glued securly to the cardboard.

That's what Gerald Weber wrote in 1 of his books, don't know how effective it is, but don't see how it could hurt.

So Plate, how does it sound with the new tank? You don't need surf verb to have good verb for most things.


       
                                      Brad     

[Platefire]

I can easily live without reverb no problem---slap back delay--a must! So on the amps I do have reverb it's always set very low 2 or 3. I noticed on the Boogie I had to turn it up a little higher to get to the same place but it sounded good to me. I actually can not stomach a dry amp no matter how good it is. So as long as I have one of my delay pedals handy, I'm good. If I got reverb, I will certainly use it. I little goes a long way. I've got pretty excessive with reverb on recording but live, not much.
I bought this tank almost 3 years ago so---you can only procrastinate so long or it's not procrastinating, it's quitting. It will probably take me a while to make my reverb bag, get my cables and install my jacks. I'll sandwitch it in with everything else. I thought when you retired, things were suppose to slow down!

So hows your reverb world? Plate

[Platefire]

This is pretty much a dumb question---I can't stand long runs of wire and usually make them short as possible but--------regarding RCA cable for reverb it looks like the options is 3'-0" of 6'-0". 3 Feet is too short and 6 feet is too long so---on on this line I don't guess it would hurt just to tie up the extra couple of feet on each run stashed in the tank bag?

Actually the longest run about 51" is needed to go around the edge of the cab clamped out of the way to the side, the other about a 1 foot less. Platefire

[Willabe]

So hows your reverb world?

I built a stand alone Fender verb and I love it. I giged with a BF SR for years and the stand alones verb is even better IMO.

Actually the longest run about 51" is needed to go around the edge of the cab clamped out of the way to the side, the other about a 1 foot less.

Doug sells the old style shielded cable and RCA jacks to make your own.                          


                                                  
                                                         Brad      

Edit; I don't see it in Dougs store, but it sure looks like it in 1 of the wire pictures. If he doesn't sell it any more, mojo or AES should have it still.

[Platefire]

Willabe

Never jammed on a SR hardly any. Are their reverb circuits better than other fenders? Never have used one of those Fender stand along units either. I just don't like reverb when it gets to the point of sounding too splashy---just a hint of ambiance for me, that sets up the background for a short slap back delay real well.

I looked at Dougs stuff and he still has the jacks/plugs and wire---regular sheilded that will work.
I just want the 90 degree jacks. I can get the pre-molded sheilded with 90 degree jacks pretty cheap---except 6'-0" long. I really don't thing that extra length coiled up and tucked away in the bag on the end will hurt. I already have the female RCA's for the chassis. Think I'll go ahead and install those in so I put the chassis back in the cab and when I get the other stuff in it will be a simple hookup. Plate

[Willabe]

Never jammed on a SR hardly any. Are their reverb circuits better than other fenders?

No, their the same. I bought that amp because some of the older (and younger) blues men in Chgo. (at the time I was playing in the blues bars) played through them. IMO, great giging amp for blues, R&R, R&B, soul, even C&W, but they can be a little too loud, if the crowd/bar is not big enough.  

Never have used one of those Fender stand along units either. I just don't like reverb when it gets to the point of sounding too splashy---just a hint of ambiance for me, that sets up the background for a short slap back delay real well.

I set mine to 2.5 to 3 with my volume around 5, maybe 6 on my SR not a lot of verb but sounded good too me.

With the stand alone I've been setting the dwell at about 3.5, the mix at about 4 and the tone around 7 playing through a 5E3.

But I did add a NFB around the 6K6/6V6 OP tube, that cuts the output a little.

The stand alone to me sounds fuller/deeper/thicker without adding splash, in fact it sounds like there's less splash. But if I was still playing out, I'd have another piece of gear to haul.    

[Platefire]

Speaking of Chgo Blues--unrelated to reverb!   I watched some vidios of Albert Collins the other night and was really blown away at his blues skills. He was burning the house down. I kept trying to see what kind of amp he was playing and couldn't really tell. I was amazed that he was doing all that with a capo tuned in Fm or something like that. I like the way he drove his amp with that tele and best I could tell he was on the bridge pickup all the time. I would have thought he would be using that neck humbucker. Anyway I've only seen bits and pieces of him in the past but his skills go way beyond what I thought. Did he pass away recently or not? Plate

[tubenit]

I saw Albert Collins several times live before he passed away years ago. At least one of the times, he played thru a Twin Reverb.

He was an incredible entertainer as well as a great blues artist. He could really put on the show and he had a great sense of humor.

With respect, Tubenit

[Platefire]

Thanks Tubnit

I would have guessed it was a smaller amp the way he had it Kranked up. I saw several MusicMan amps close by but couldn't tell if he was using them or not.

Yes he did have a great sense of Humor, I just listened to "Snowed In" today. He had me laughing    Platefire 

[Platefire]

Well I installed the female RCA's in the back of the boogie yesterday and tested it, worked fine. Put the chassis back in the cab. Got some 4'-0" 90 degree RCA's and a reverb bag on the way. So hopefully years more service before I have to re-visit this again. Plate


Thanks for your help. I'm so thankful I got you guys to bounce this stuff off of, or I would have some terrible messes to correct a lot of the time. As is I get through it with success!! Plate

[Platefire]

Got the 4'-0" RCA cables with 90 degree ends and the Reverb Bag in today. I installed a piece of cardboard on the bottom open side of the tank without any sheilding(tin foil) on it. Also encapsulated the tank in bubble wrap before I put it in the bag....to further cushion it from vibrations. Hope that don't create any moisture inside? Only thing securing the bag is a wood screw/washer on each end of bag, not screwed down tight. I was careful to run the RCA's opposite side of cab as the PT to tank and installed a couple of wire retainers in the inside side of cab to secure those RCA's. I did do a little studying/internet research on it before installation. Thanks again for all the help!

Fired it up and no noises. Reverb working good. Platefire  

[Willabe]

Only thing securing the bag is a wood screw/washer on each end of bag, not screwed down tight.

That's how Leo did it. Where's it gonna go?

Glad you got her working the way you like.


                        Brad     

[Platefire]

Hay Thanks Willabe

I hope the new socket/resistor is the solution for you 5G9. I will be looking for a good report!