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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Valco 510-11 issues  (Read 5116 times)

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Offline haliles

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Valco 510-11 issues
« on: May 01, 2013, 12:00:24 pm »
I have a Valco 510-11 that came to me not working. I replaced the tubes, checked all the voltages, changed several caps and got it working. It sounds great until I get over the halfway point on the volume control the the volume drops and it starts breaking up badly. I have tested all the components, even tried a new output transformer but am baffeled at this point. Any Idea's???

Offline sluckey

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2013, 12:09:29 pm »
Do you have a schematic?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline haliles

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2013, 12:57:04 pm »
Do you have a schematic?

Yes I have a schematic. The only difference is the schematic and what I have is the cap to the tone control is a .022 uf and there is a 25/25 cap across the 3900 resistor on pin 6 of the 6sl7.

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2013, 01:34:49 pm »
Can you post the schematic?

Offline sluckey

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2013, 02:25:24 pm »
There's a schematic in Doug's library now.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2013, 03:58:09 pm »
Looking at the schematic, it is a fairly simple amp. 
Have you tried another speaker?  I have had old speakers with trash and sticking coils.  You can feel it by pushing the speaker in and out.  If you have not checked this, I would.

Did you replace the rectifier tube?  Only once I had a rectifier tube pulsate.  Don't know why.  Spent about 6 hours looking for why the amp bias was not steady.  New tube tested before installing.  Tested it again and it would go from good to not too good.  Never knew what happened.

Did you check the pots resistance?

Just some shots in the dark as it seems hard to have something wrong unless you are losing power or the speaker is reaching a rub.

Offline haliles

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 04:53:08 pm »
Looking at the schematic, it is a fairly simple amp. 
Have you tried another speaker?  I have had old speakers with trash and sticking coils.  You can feel it by pushing the speaker in and out.  If you have not checked this, I would.

Did you replace the rectifier tube?  Only once I had a rectifier tube pulsate.  Don't know why.  Spent about 6 hours looking for why the amp bias was not steady.  New tube tested before installing.  Tested it again and it would go from good to not too good.  Never knew what happened.


Did you check the pots resistance?

Just some shots in the dark as it seems hard to have something wrong unless you are losing power or the speaker is reaching a rub.

Yep, replaced rectifier tube with a new one, have tried several different speakers, all the pots have been replaced with new ones. it's driving me nuts...

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 07:37:49 pm »
... I ... changed several caps and got it working. It sounds great until I get over the halfway point on the volume control the the volume drops and it starts breaking up badly. ...

All filter caps are new? If not, the amp probably needs them. Even if it doesn't now, it will in the next year or 2 as they start failing.

Let's assume you didn't goof during any of the repair process and create a poor solder joint or intermittent ground. Try lifting one leg of the bypass cap you added to the 2nd gain stage.

This thing is very much like a tweed Princeton (I used to own a ~54 tweed Princeton that used a 6SL7 like this Valco; I guess that makes it the 5B2). It got plenty of distortion pretty quick on the dial without a bypass cap on its 2nd stage (though it does use a grid-leak biased input stage).

Gain will drop when you remove that bypass cap. Your problem may be resolved, or may not. Tell us what happens.

With or without the bypass cap, the output tube may need a grid stopper and/or screen resistor. These help prevent oscillation in the output tube. I'm thinking you're running into too much gain and and oscillation that's popping up (again, *if* there was no simple wiring/solder error during the repair).

If the grid stopper on the output tube doesn't help, and you need the extra gain of the bypass on the 2nd gain stage, you may have to look hard at the way the preamp tube wiring is routed. Any way the output of the 2nd stage gets anywhere near the grid wiring of the input stage? Any way the wiring of the output tube (especially plate/OT wiring) gets anywhere near any of the preamp wiring or resistors?

Last possibility (and maybe one to look into regardless) is grid blocking. If you slam the output with a massive signal (from the added gain of the 2nd bypass), you can drive the grid positive which charges the 0.05uF coupling cap, and when the signal swings negative the cap's charge keeps the tube cut off longer than it would be with just the control of the input signal. A nasty form of distortion usually results.

Quick solution/test for grid blocking might be to reduce the coupling cap to 0.01uF. Yes, it will make the amp much brighter, but the smaller cap discharges faster and tends to recover from grid blocking easier. You'd just try this as a test.

If you had an o'scope, you could look at the signal on the output tube grid when then effect starts to happen and see how big the driving signal is. If the peak voltage is much more than the d.c. voltage across the 330Ω cathode resistor, you're probably running into grid blocking. You might even see the input signal's waveform change when blocking starts occurring.

If you verify blocking is what's happening, there's a couple things you can try:
-  Remember the grid stopper on the output tube to combat oscillation? It can also help reduce the effect of blocking. You could increase that from a starting value of 1.5kΩ to as much as you'd like (but don't go over about 100-220kΩ, and hopefully not even close to that much). The downside is you'll eventually hear it roll off highs.

-  If the bass response doesn't suffer too much according to your taste, you can keep reducing that coupling cap value.

-  You can reduce gain in the preamp.

-  You can keep gain in the preamp, but add some kind of volume control or voltage divider just before the output tube to knock down the size of the signal.

Offline haliles

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 09:49:41 am »
Thanks for all the info. I'll get started checking it out today. The first thing I did this morning was to hook up my bias meter just as a means of looking at output current. just prior to the breakup the current is 55ma and plate voltage is 270, when the volume drops the current drops to 47 and voltage raises to 285. is it possible my cathode resistor could be breaking down.

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 11:42:14 am »
Thanks for all the info. I'll get started checking it out today. The first thing I did this morning was to hook up my bias meter just as a means of looking at output current. just prior to the breakup the current is 55ma and plate voltage is 270, when the volume drops the current drops to 47 and voltage raises to 285. is it possible my cathode resistor could be breaking down.
Anything is possible, but I would not think this is the deal.  Seems like a power supply problem.  What HBP wrote makes sense as I missed your addition of a bypass in the preamp.  Lift that cap and see if your problem disappears.

Offline haliles

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 03:06:14 pm »
 :laugh:
Thanks guys for all your help. I finally got it. it was the .05 first stage coupling cap, it tested good but when I changed it out with a .047 all my problems went away.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 05:40:38 pm »
I finally got it. it was the .05 first stage coupling cap, it tested good but when I changed it out with a .047 all my problems went away.

Damn... Leaking coupling cap was the one thing I didn't suggest as a problem. Good job solving it!

So you know (and as you've seen), a cap can test good for its capacitance, yet still be leaky and cause problems.

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2013, 04:30:42 am »
Glad to here it.  I have never heard one of these amps, but from the schematic it looks as if it would have a nice old tubey sound with some greasy bass tones with a nice breakup.  Glad you got it going, an old amp should never die.

Congrats. :worthy1:

Offline haliles

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 01:43:45 pm »
My customer was so pleased that he gave me a $40 tip on top of the $200.00 repair bill.  I was so pleased with the sound of the amp that now I have decided to build me one just like it.......Great Tone...

Offline Willabe

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Re: Valco 510-11 issues
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 07:02:12 am »
My customer was so pleased that he gave me a $40 tip on top of the $200.00 repair bill.

Very nice.

I was so pleased with the sound of the amp that now I have decided to build me one just like it.......Great Tone...

Look forward to following your build thread on that.


                  Brad      :laugh:

 


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