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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Harvard 5F10 issue  (Read 21917 times)

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Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard issue
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2014, 02:34:05 pm »
OK, big step. Plug in all tubes. Connect speaker. Turn the volume to zero. DO NOT INSTALL 100Ω RESISTORS YET! DO NOT RECONNECT NFB YET!

Turn the power on and be ready to turn off at the sign of any problems. Hopefully you'll have a working amp. Measure dc voltage on both 6V6s pins 3. I'm hoping that voltage will not be so high now. If no apparent problems, try a guitar. Report back.

Done. No smoke.
Both 6V6 pins 3: 375VDC

I tried a guitar, I get the sound and volume of the amp but some crackling noise, I suppose the noise is the consequence of not having the NFB wire connected?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 12:32:26 pm by SleepLess »

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2014, 02:49:19 pm »
OK, you're getting there!

Quote
I tried a guitar, I get the sound and volume of the amp but some crackling noise, I suppose the noise is the consequence of not having the NFB wire connected?
Probably not related to NFB. How much crackling? Maybe just needs to run a little while.

It's time to reconnect the NFB. Be ready to turn off if you get a squeal. Sometimes phase reversal is not an obvious squeal. I would just use a gator clip lead to temporarily connect. Listen to the guitar sound without the NFB and get an ear reference. Now connect the NFB. If the phase is correct, the guitar sound level should drop slightly and sound more refined. If the phase is reversed, you may get a squeal or the volume level may only increase a little and sound more raspy, or something in between. Swap the OT plate leads if the phase is reversed.

If you still have crackling sounds after 15 minutes, get a chop stick and start tapping tubes, components, and wires.

DON'T CONNECT THE 100Ω RESISTORS YET!
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2014, 03:11:37 pm »
OK, you're getting there!

Quote
I tried a guitar, I get the sound and volume of the amp but some crackling noise, I suppose the noise is the consequence of not having the NFB wire connected?
Probably not related to NFB. How much crackling? Maybe just needs to run a little while.

It's time to reconnect the NFB. Be ready to turn off if you get a squeal. Sometimes phase reversal is not an obvious squeal. I would just use a gator clip lead to temporarily connect. Listen to the guitar sound without the NFB and get an ear reference. Now connect the NFB. If the phase is correct, the guitar sound level should drop slightly and sound more refined. If the phase is reversed, you may get a squeal or the volume level may only increase a little and sound more raspy, or something in between. Swap the OT plate leads if the phase is reversed.

If you still have crackling sounds after 15 minutes, get a chop stick and start tapping tubes, components, and wires.

DON'T CONNECT THE 100Ω RESISTORS YET!

OK, I don't think the phase is wrong. The crackling got away after about one minute. I don't get any crackling even when I turn the volume up and down all the way. The amp sounds good and loud.
Does it mean that adding the 100Ω resistors on this amp was not only useless but dangerous? That I blew up my MM because of those two resistors I decided to add?  :w2:

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2014, 04:11:49 pm »
Quote
Does it mean that adding the 100Ω resistors on this amp was not only useless but dangerous? That I blew up my MM because of those two resistors I decided to add?
Those 100Ω resistors are a good thing. I think they burned up due to a problem caused by the bad ground connection on that OT secondary ground wire. Now that the OT secondary is grounded properly it should be OK to install the 100Ω resistors again. The method you used should be fine. I don't think they will burn again. Give it a go and report back.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #54 on: September 13, 2014, 04:35:53 pm »
Quote
Does it mean that adding the 100Ω resistors on this amp was not only useless but dangerous? That I blew up my MM because of those two resistors I decided to add?
Those 100Ω resistors are a good thing. I think they burned up due to a problem caused by the bad ground connection on that OT secondary ground wire. Now that the OT secondary is grounded properly it should be OK to install the 100Ω resistors again. The method you used should be fine. I don't think they will burn again. Give it a go and report back.

This time I had a flash inside V4 and both 100Ω resistors smoked and burnt about 1 second after I switched the amp ON... I think they are both dead.  :BangHead:
Both still read 95Ω though...

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2014, 04:50:23 pm »
Install another set of resistors. The value is not critical. Use anything between 47Ω and 330Ω, if you don't have another pair of 100Ω. Pull both 6V6s and turn the power on. Do the resistors burn now? If not, I suspect you have one or more shorted 6V6s or you have some non standard 6V6 that will not allow you to ground pin 1.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2014, 05:05:20 pm »
Install another set of resistors. The value is not critical. Use anything between 47Ω and 330Ω, if you don't have another pair of 100Ω. Pull both 6V6s and turn the power on. Do the resistors burn now? If not, I suspect you have one or more shorted 6V6s or you have some non standard 6V6 that will not allow you to ground pin 1.

I found another pair of 100Ω resistors and soldered them in (the previous ones cracked in two when I grabbed them with my needle pliers, I wonder how they could stiull test good before!). Took the 6V6s out and switched the amp ON. Everything seems to be ok, no smoke, no burning.
The tubes I have are a new set of matched EH 6V6s

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2014, 06:22:13 pm »
Quote
Everything seems to be ok, no smoke, no burning.
The tubes I have are a new set of matched EH 6V6s
Put another set of 6V6s in. Meanwhile, with the EH tubes laying on the bench, check resistance between pins 2 and and all other pins of the EH tubes. You should have resistance between pins 2 and 7 ONLY. All other pins should show infinity ohms to pin 2.

I suspect a damaged tube at this point.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2014, 02:56:16 am »
Quote
Everything seems to be ok, no smoke, no burning.
The tubes I have are a new set of matched EH 6V6s
Put another set of 6V6s in. Meanwhile, with the EH tubes laying on the bench, check resistance between pins 2 and and all other pins of the EH tubes. You should have resistance between pins 2 and 7 ONLY. All other pins should show infinity ohms to pin 2.

I suspect a damaged tube at this point.

Hi Sluckey!
One tube has resistance between pins 2 and 3 (about 400Ω), the other one is fine. I will install another set and report back once the amp is fired up.
Thanks!

UPDATE: The amp works perfectly with a new set of power tubes. Played it for about 15 minutes and it sounds great. I have a 355V B+, pins 5 show -34V. I don't know if that's a good bias point, but the amp sounds good. Once again Sluckey (and all the others who helped!) I can only say a million thanks, I wouldn't have been able to pull it through without you. I'm 35 and I hope I can have all the knowledge you have in a few years, or decades... Debugging an amp when it's on your bench is already tricky, but when it's 5000 miles away, it's just plain impressive. THANKS! I have another amp to build now and then I'll be able to get back to my Revibe build!  :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 04:02:48 am by SleepLess »

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2014, 08:49:37 am »
Good news! Just to summarize, here's what happened...

The OT secondary was open due to the common wire being attached to the OT frame. That open circuit reflected some high voltage pulses back to the primary plate leads. These high voltages were created when any sound tried to reach the speaker. Could have been just the crackling noise you heard, or could have been a guitar sound. These high voltage pulses arced inside the tube between pins 2 (filament) and 3 (plate) causing that 400Ω resistance between those pins. Now your plate voltage has a 400Ω resistance path between plate and filament AND on to ground thru the 100Ω resistors. The half watt 100Ω resistors were the weak link so they popped.

So, in a way, those 100Ω resistors acted like a fuse and probably saved your OT, and/or other expensive parts. MM attached the OT wire to the frame of the OT because that's how it was on the original. That's just a bad idea IMO. Doing that means you not only have to rely on a good solder connection on the OT frame, but the bolts that attach the OT to the chassis must also make a good electrical connection. You may want to contact MM and discuss your experience with them.

The good news is... Now you have a single 6V6 that's probably good. You did mention Revibe.  :wink:   Now break the glass on that bad 6V6 and throw it away. Otherwise it will work it's way into another amp at some later time.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SILVERGUN

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #60 on: September 14, 2014, 09:55:21 am »
 :thumbsup:

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2014, 11:53:32 am »
Thanks a lot for the explanation Sluckey and yes, this bad 6V6 has been thrown away! I have built a Hoffman bias checker. Do you think Ic an use it on this Harvard? With a 355V B+ I should aim at a 23mA bias point. If the bias checker shows that the current is lower than that, how can I raise it? I suppose I should change the 6.8K resistor at the far end of the board? Should I raise or lower that value? That's my last question about this amp!

Oh, I actually also have a spare 10KL bias pot at hand... But I don't know if and how I could use it in this build... Hmmm... THANKS!
I can't wait to return to the Revibe build!

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2014, 12:13:59 pm »
I didn't mess with the 6.8K. I replaced the 56K sitting above the diode with a 50K pot in series with a 24K resistor. That gave plenty of bias voltage swing above and below the stock value. Here's a pic...
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #63 on: September 14, 2014, 12:19:59 pm »
I didn't mess with the 6.8K. I replaced the 56K sitting above the diode with a 50K pot in series with a 24K resistor. That gave plenty of bias voltage swing above and below the stock value. Here's a pic...

Crap, I only have a 10KL bias pot...

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2014, 04:47:19 am »
Hi.
I'm having problems with this amp. It lacks bass and when I push it a little it kind of farts. Very ugly distortion. I have replaced all the tubes with know good ones and nothing changed. Do you think the OT could have suffered and could be responsible for this bad behaviou and sound?

I actually don't know where to start as for tests... B+ is 377V which is a bit high compared to the Harvard schematic that says 302V... Pins 5 of the 6V6s read -34V.
Thanks for your help.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2014, 12:58:23 pm »
Here are the voltages for my 5F10. The PT is TP25 from Allen Amplification so my voltages are high too.
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Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2014, 01:05:03 pm »
Hi again Sluckey.
Well then it means that my B+ is not responsible for these problems. Do you think the OT could be bad? Is there a way to know for sure before I buy another one uselessly?

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2014, 07:50:56 am »
I doubt the OT is bad. It will likely either work or not work.

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2014, 08:20:09 am »
Thanks HotBlue. I will try and shoot you a video tonight. You'll be able to hear the farting bass notes and ugly distortion when the amp is pushed a bit... I don't know if it's the OT or not but it's definitely not normal.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2014, 09:05:37 am »
How do your voltages compare with Sluckey's schematic?

Farting bass notes usually equals grid-blocking at the output tubes. Are you using any pedals when this happens (especially boost pedals or distortion/fuzz pedals with high output)? Is it only when you're playing very loud?

Usual cure for grid-blocking is to reduce the size of the coupling caps from phase inverter to output tubes (0.1uF originally in this amp). Yes, that will reduce bass.

The total system responsible for grid-blocking (if that is actually causing the bad sound in your amp) includes the coupling caps, the 220kΩ bias feed resistors and the 1.5kΩ grid stoppers on the 6V6's. Grid-blocking happens when you slam the output tube grids with a very large signal, such that the positive peak of the signal is greater than the bias voltage (or a peak greater than your 34v of bias). The grid signal overcomes the 34v of bias so that the net grid voltage is positive. That causes grid the grid to attract electrons from the cathode, which then flow out through the bias feed resistors and bias supply to ground. But large-ish bias feed resistors tend to slow that drain of grid current, which charges the coupling cap plate closest to the output tube grid negative. The grid is now more-negative than it would be due to the bias alone. When the signal swings negative, it will cut-off faster than it ordinarily would because the net grid voltage is more-negative than it would be due to bias and signal alone. The whole cycle builds up as long as there is a huge input signal and causes some pretty ugly clipping.

Interestingly, output tube grid current also causes distortion in the phase inverter. Normally, the grid looks like an open-circuit so the phase inverter's load is the 220kΩ bias feed resistor. While grid current flows, the output tube grid looks like a much smaller resistance to the phase inverter. The end effect is a momentary reduction of the phase inverter's load, which can clamp the peak output of the inverter for an instant. One part of the phase inverter output wave gets changed, which amounts to distortion (signal out not same shape as signal in).

Once the too-big input signal is removed, it takes some time for the cap charge to drain away, which is determined by the time constant created by the coupling cap and the bias feed resistance. Make either of those parts larger-values, and the time constant increases as well as time to recover from grid blocking. Reducing their value speeds blocking recovery, but making the bias feed resistor smaller may load the phase inverter too much (depends on the particular amp design). So typically the coupling caps are reduced.

But we do have those grid stoppers. Making them bigger slows the electrons coming out of the grid, which is the same as reducing current (definition of current is 'rate of movement of electrons'). You could try inserting bigger & bigger grid stoppers (start with, say, 10kΩ) to nix the grid current, but large-enough values will reduce treble response at the output tubes.

All-in-all, smaller coupling caps or bigger grid stoppers. You could try 100kΩ bias feed resistors, but they may not be enough to fix the problem and I certainly wouldn't go lower than 100kΩ in this amp (lower needs a phase inverter redesign).

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2014, 10:55:17 am »
Hi.
Thanks HotBluePlates for this lengthy explanation. It seems though that you suggest the amp needs tweaking whereas it needs repairing. I have already had a Harvard in the past and I can tell you this one is not working properly. No I don't use any pedals.

Here's a video. At the beginning the amp is on 3, tone on 7 and it already sounds bad. Then I turn it up to ten and it sounds awful and you'll clearly hear the ugly distortion and farty bass. It's weird because the amp actually lacks bass. The amp really sounds thin. There's no body to the sound. Sorry for the bad image but the sound is all that matters... I hope you can help me from there. Thanks!

http://youtu.be/gF2ivqUBsGo


Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2014, 11:38:43 am »
A full set of voltage readings for the three filter caps and all tube pins would be helpful.

Your OT has definitely been stressed with that open secondary problem you had earlier. Do you have another OT you could try?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2014, 11:44:24 am »
A full set of voltage readings for the three filter caps and all tube pins would be helpful.

Your OT has definitely been stressed with that open secondary problem you had earlier. Do you have another OT you could try?

Nope, I don't have another OT at hand, I would need to buy one. Unfortunately I don't know of another maker of the Harvard OT besides Mercury magnetics and they're pricey...
I will take all the measures you asked and report back.
Thanks for your help.

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2014, 12:53:53 pm »
Any OT that's suitable for P/P 6V6s or EL84s will work. You could pull one from another amp just to temporarily hook up to the Harvard. I'd certainly do that before buying another OT.

I don't recall that you ever positively proved that the NFB was phased correctly. Disconnect the NFB wire between the speaker jack and the board. Does the amp sound better? It's a slim chance that this is related to your problem but it's easy to do.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2014, 02:53:00 pm »
So here's my voltage chart:

       PINS             1               2                3                4                  5                 6                  7                  8                  9

V1                        0             1.8          3.07AC       3.27AC             /                  /                 179

V2                      198            0              1.49         3.07AC         3.07AC         251                 18              49.8             3.25AC

V3                        0             3.06AC       358            364           -34.4           -34.4              3.27AC            0                  0

V4                        0             3.04AC       356            359           -34.1           -34.1              3.25AC            0                  0

V5                                       363                              324AC                          326AC                                363

Sluckey I think I tried to swap the OT wires back then but I will do it again.
Thanks!

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2014, 03:39:49 pm »
Those voltages look fine.
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Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2014, 04:18:21 pm »
Got a different speaker/cabinet handy? To me it sounds like the speaker is rubbing. Either internally (meaning blown) or against something like the baffleboard.

Don't laugh at the latter guess; I once bought a cabinet for a 5E3 Deluxe build. Had a strange distortion only on the low E string or at high volume. Only when direct sunlight fell on the grill cloth could I see the speaker cone from the front of the amp and that it was not concentric in its baffle cutout. The speaker had been buzzing against the baffleboard.

I would try eliminating simple causes like the speaker/cabinet first before figuring out tests for the OT.

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2014, 11:43:36 pm »
OK, I will try the amp with another cab. I have  a big 1X12 Marshall cab at 8ohms.
Thanks!

Update:
So I swapped the OT wires on pins 3 and the sound was worse with added noise. So they are not reversed.
I tried the amp through my marshall cab, same problem.

I think the problem is narrowing down to the OT. I have a tweed Tremolux amp, I'm gonna take out its OT and install it in the Harvard to see waht it does. I'll let you know. I must take it out right, there's no other way to discard the current Harvard OT?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 10:45:15 am by SleepLess »

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2014, 10:45:39 am »
Update above...

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2014, 06:08:13 pm »
I think the problem is narrowing down to the OT. I have a tweed Tremolux amp, I'm gonna take out its OT and install it in the Harvard to see waht it does. I'll let you know. I must take it out right, there's no other way to discard the current Harvard OT?

You mean an actual 50's Tremolux? If so (and maybe even if not), don't remove the OT from the Tremolux.

I haven't tried this; wait for confirmation from someone who has. I wonder if you can put the chassis of the two amps next to each other, with a wire from each of the Harvard's 3 primary connections (2x output tube plates, 1 B+ connection) over to the Tremolux's primary & out to the Tremolux's speaker for a test. You'd need to completely unhook those 3 primary connections at the Harvard's existing OT, and use some high-voltage rated wire. For that reason, I'm hesitant to even suggest lashing this up due to the potential danger to the amp & you.

However, it would allow testing using the Tremolux OT without removing it from the chassis, and confirm/deny the OT as the problem.

If it's a copy of a tweed Tremolux, the safer thing is to just remove the Tremolux OT and attach the wires directly to the relevant circuit points.

Silly Question: Do you have more than 1 speaker jack; if so, is the problem the same at both jacks?

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2014, 11:51:54 pm »

You mean an actual 50's Tremolux? If so (and maybe even if not), don't remove the OT from the Tremolux.

NO... It's  a clone of course, I wouldn't do that to an original!

I haven't tried this; wait for confirmation from someone who has. I wonder if you can put the chassis of the two amps next to each other, with a wire from each of the Harvard's 3 primary connections (2x output tube plates, 1 B+ connection) over to the Tremolux's primary & out to the Tremolux's speaker for a test. You'd need to completely unhook those 3 primary connections at the Harvard's existing OT, and use some high-voltage rated wire. For that reason, I'm hesitant to even suggest lashing this up due to the potential danger to the amp & you.

However, it would allow testing using the Tremolux OT without removing it from the chassis, and confirm/deny the OT as the problem.

If it's a copy of a tweed Tremolux, the safer thing is to just remove the Tremolux OT and attach the wires directly to the relevant circuit points.

Silly Question: Do you have more than 1 speaker jack; if so, is the problem the same at both jacks?

I only have one speaker RCA jack...
Thanks!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2014, 09:13:18 am »
Hi.
I installed the Tremolux OT inside the Harvard and checked. The problem is gone.
Looks like I'm buying another OT...
Thanks!

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2014, 03:24:30 pm »
Wow! That's a first-time hearing of OT damage like this (without smoke, etc). Sorry to hear you'll have the added expense...

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 wiring
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2015, 01:02:49 pm »
Hi.
Sorry for taking such a long time in getting back to this topic. I hope you won't take as long as I did to help me out! lol
So if you remember, the MM OT seemed to be responsible for the bad sound and wrong bass notes.

I installed the new Classictone OT and it turns out the same and I now have some high-pitched squeal when I turn the volume knob, basically between 1 and 3 and then 9 and 12, nothing in the middle. I just don't get it, the problem seemed to be solved when I tried the amp with the Tremolux OT. So right now, it turns out that the MM OT was maybe good after all. Could a component be responsible for this mess? A cap? A resistor?

I'm totally at a loss with this amp, I really need you guys to help me find out what's wrong. Here's a video I just made of it:

Harvard issue 2

I pulled V1 out and the problem remained identical so at least this takes V1 and its surroundings out of the equation. I also discarded the tubes and the speaker, I swapped both for known good ones and got very bad results as well...
A million thanks already!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 01:07:03 pm by SleepLess »

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2015, 02:28:48 pm »
Reverse the OT plate leads. Does that help?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2015, 03:32:55 pm »
Reverse the OT plate leads. Does that help?

Done. It's worse...

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2015, 07:30:48 am »
Unplug that guitar cable. Is the problem still there?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2015, 09:06:39 am »
Thanks for your help Sluckey. It's the same thing without any cable plugged in...

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2015, 09:13:21 am »
The negative feedback wire from the speaker jack is still disconnected? If not, disconnect. Still have the squeal?

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2015, 09:19:38 am »
The negative feedback wire from the speaker jack is still disconnected? If not, disconnect. Still have the squeal?

It was back in. I have just disconnected it. The squeal is gone. Thanks Hotblue!

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2015, 09:28:28 am »
So, totally disconnecting the NFB wire killed the squeal but reversing the OT plate wires made it worse?

Hmm, very interesting!
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2015, 09:38:05 am »
All my apologies Sluckey, I had read your last postr too fast. I reversed the plate wires and the amp now sounds awesome. I'm gonna put the MM OT back in to check how it sounds.
Thanks and sorry.

Offline HotBluePlates

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2015, 12:58:28 pm »
All my apologies Sluckey, I had read your last postr too fast. I reversed the plate wires and the amp now sounds awesome. I'm gonna put the MM OT back in to check how it sounds.
Thanks and sorry.

Well, then you'll go through the whole possible-squeal situation again...

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2015, 01:04:15 pm »
All my apologies Sluckey, I had read your last postr too fast. I reversed the plate wires and the amp now sounds awesome. I'm gonna put the MM OT back in to check how it sounds.
Thanks and sorry.

Well, then you'll go through the whole possible-squeal situation again...

I did... Can you guys believe that I think the problem was coming from the RCA speaker jack (along with the reversed plate leads on the Classictone)? I have to make sure 100% that it was coming from there. I'll get back to you and report. Thanks!

Offline SleepLess

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #94 on: January 19, 2015, 04:20:18 am »
So, conclusions:

The MM OT was bad, I was right in buying a new one.
The Classictone OT was good but there were three mistakes:
- the OT was grounded to its frame which was causing noise and hum. I unsoldered it, extended the wire and grounded it at the speaker jack.
- The plate leads were reversed.
- The RCA jack was providing a poor ground, I installed a regular 1/4" jack and the amp now sounds awesome.

Thanks guys!  :worthy1:

Offline sluckey

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2015, 09:53:07 am »
It's odd that the new OT has the same issue as the MM OT with the secondary wire being attached to the frame. I wonder if the frame has some clear coating or plating that does not allow a good electrical ground connection when bolted to the chassis. I also wonder the same about your chassis.

Anyway, glad you got it figured out.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Harvard 5F10 issue
« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2015, 11:51:15 am »
I wonder if the frame has some clear coating or plating that does not allow a good electrical ground connection when bolted to the chassis. I also wonder the same about your chassis.

The OT's for my 5E3 and 5G9 both had the common secondary soldered to the U channel. And both looked like the channel was varnished to me.

I unsoldered the common from the channel and ran it to the speaker jacks just to be sure it made good contact. I guess I could have just sanded the bottom of the channel's feet and the chassis a little where they mount together but they could tarnish over the years and slowly loose good ground contact?


                     Brad    :icon_biggrin:                         

 


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