Tone caps for Humbuckers

[dude]

I have a few old Cornell Dubilier .022 caps I took out of an old 1965 Ampeg amp.

Just wondering if these "light green, black lettering, crayon like caps" would sound good in my SG with humbuckers?

I have a pair of cheap polyester caps, 20 cents each in there now, I'm not too thrilled with the tone pot response.

If the Cornell's are junk ,what's a good .022 tone cap?

al

[jjasilli]

Not one answer.  Some like green caps, or maybe ceramic caps for the "grit".  Others want vintage bumble bees.  Others want orange drops, or paper and oil.  You can audition different types using jumper leads with alligator clips.

[Ed_Chambley]

I use Russian Paper in oil.  I use a 15 in the neck and 22 on the bridge in all my humbucker guitars.  There is a good article with video here:
http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/ez-mods-guitar-tone-caps

Hope it helps.  Also I saw a video on youtube with someone clipping in different ones.  I have tried BumbleBees since I have pulled them from old organs.  Not worth the cash.  Black Beauties are easier to find and much cheaper and have the "lore" around them as well.

[Willabe]

Ed, how about your Strat?

[dude]

I use Russian Paper in oil.  I use a 15 in the neck and 22 on the bridge in all my humbucker guitars.  There is a good article with video here:
http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/ez-mods-guitar-tone-caps

Hope it helps.  Also I saw a video on youtube with someone clipping in different ones.  I have tried BumbleBees since I have pulled them from old organs.  Not worth the cash.  Black Beauties are easier to find and much cheaper and have the "lore" around them as well.

Ed, thank you so much for that video. Saves a lot of time over the alligator clips methods. At first I didn't' hear too much difference except the oil filled caps and vintage ones but after a while I could hear the small differences between the Orange Drops and Mallory's which I think I like the best for rhythm playing on the neck but the oil filled caps are great for leads, rolled back a bit. I've been listening to that clip so much, I have to take a brake 

I did the Vintage wiring with 500ka CTS pots (SG) I got from Doug. They say the vintage wiring gives independent control over both volumes pots but when I switch to both p/u's and turn the volume off - on either one - I get no sound from the other. Maybe I copied the wrong Vintage wiring?

Is it possible to switch to both p/u's and then turn the volume completely off on one and still be able to hear the other...? If so, maybe you could direct me to a wiring diagram...?

Anyhow, thanks again for that clip.

al
 

[sluckey]

I think you may have miss wired the pots. Do it like this...

[dude]

That's how I wired the SG.

I'm trying used both p/u's (switch in middle) and lower one volume and not the other but lowering one volume effects the other.

Either the switch works or it doesn't, I ruled that out.

Try one of your HB guitars switch in the middle and start lowering the bridge a little it effects the neck. Maybe I'm out to lunch. I'm a start guy so I haven't fooled much with HB's.

Probably the way it's suppose to be...?

I was thinking I could lower the bridge a bit and keep the neck up but as I turn the neck a little down, I lose a lot of the volume from both...?

al

[sluckey]

I'll bet you have the wire from the pickup connected to the outside lug of the pot and the wire from the switch connected to the center lug of the pot.

[dude]

I do:

lug 1:  ground
lug 2:  switch
lug 3:  p/u

I got the wiring diagram here  ! No longer available  (middle of the video they have a diagram for 50's style)
and saw the same diagram a few other places that said vintage.

I looked too fast at your diagram, you have lug2 and lug3 reversed so I don't have it wired like your diagram. I'll switch the two volumes lug 2 and 3 tomorrow and post back.

I noticed your diagram has the bridge p/u "wording" on the ground wire, should be on the middle lug...? 

thanks,
al

[sluckey]

I looked too fast at your diagram, you have lug2 and lug3 reversed so I don't have it wired like your diagram. I'll switch the two volumes lug 2 and 3 tomorrow and post back.

And then the circuit will behave as you expect it.

EDIT... Here's another link that explains why the pots are wired different from the way you wired them...

     http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/stockgibson.php

[Ed_Chambley]

Great PDF on wiring vintage Humblukers

http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/paula.pdf

Willabe,
I did not change the cap in the Shur.  It is a stock 47 orange dipped.  I have not gotten used to the guitar enough to decide, but I am planning to rework all of it with some added buttons and blend pots.  I do like the Orange dipped caps in single coils as they seem open and airy.  The 3 pups on a strat really makes for some unique tones.  I think I want to be able to control each volume and have a separate tone for each as well.  I have a loaded pickguard with Keystones pups all singles.  I am planning to try a volume and tone for each pup.  I will have 6 knobs and no switch.

I am not planning to cut the original one tho.

In my tele's I have some old actual Wax/Paper 5's, real NOS types.  I like them and I also like the S1 switching.   I actually put S1 switching plate on my 59, but I simply replaced the whole thing.  Thing about a Tele is I never run the tone pot full up and I usually put a 18K resistor in series with the tone pot so it is never open.  To me they sound harsh and if I change guitars to my LP or 335 I don't have to change the amp settings much.

[dude]

Sluckey and Ed

Thanks for the links, explained HB wiring great.

Sluckey,

The SG sings, complete control over both p/u's volumes and tones in every way. Don't even need a switch with that wiring. I'm changing one of my favorite Gibson guitars, reissue SG special w/P90's with that wiring.

I never played this 81 SG w/HB cause the neck was too muddy for my ears, I have older 57 Gibson reissue PAFs when they first came out, only two leads. I carefully found the series link (neck p/u) and added a wire there with a switch it to ground. Since the SG's body was too thin to use a push-pull pot, I put a mini slider switch on the back cavity cover, works great. Cutting that neck coil alone was too thin but now I can mix the bridge in for a variety of tones with slight turns of the volumes and tone pots. You are the man, thanks again.

Sincerely,
al

[HotBluePlates]

I don't know for sure the "vintage wiring" as Sluckey showed it (pickups to middle lug of volume pots) was really the way Gibson did it in the old days. However, I can tell you it is the way Gretsch did it in the old days & now. As you'll find, it really helps in blending the sounds of each pickup.

What you lose (if you need it) is being able to have one pickup on and the other off, and flipping the toggle switch back & forth to do stutter/hard-trem effects. Only you know if that's something you do when playing your songs or onstage...

[jojokeo]

I did not change the cap in the Shur.  It is a stock 47 orange dipped.  I have not gotten used to the guitar enough to decide, but I am planning to rework all of it with some added buttons and blend pots.  I do like the Orange dipped caps in single coils as they seem open and airy.

Ed,
I have no-load tone & blend pots on all of my Strats. One suggestion, I know it may seem weird & non-conforming but give .002uF/2nF a try. I'm not a fan of the way-overkill-values used (22uf/47uf) on all stock guitars simply accepted to be the "norm" by all manufactures. I HATE (is that a strong enough word?) that dull muffled sound and find it completely and utterly useless. Using less capacitance it enables you to find a nice workable tone throughout the entire control's range. In my strats, there's something special using that suggested value especially in overdrive whether in "blend" mode or not? Meaning you can then dial it completely all the way down to 1 and get a very nice result. It almost seems that there's a certain frequency reactance that occurs and you can leave it there forgetting that you've just spent the past 1/2 hour with your tone control all the way down... In all settings it seems to give you an entirely new set of voices and combinations to utilize. In my opinion the VALUE used is way more important than the type of cap used.

[Ed_Chambley]

I did not change the cap in the Shur.  It is a stock 47 orange dipped.  I have not gotten used to the guitar enough to decide, but I am planning to rework all of it with some added buttons and blend pots.  I do like the Orange dipped caps in single coils as they seem open and airy.

Ed,
I have no-load tone & blend pots on all of my Strats. One suggestion, I know it may seem weird & non-conforming but give .002uF/2nF a try. I'm not a fan of the way-overkill-values used (22uf/47uf) on all stock guitars simply accepted to be the "norm" by all manufactures. I HATE (is that a strong enough word?) that dull muffled sound and find it completely and utterly useless. Using less capacitance it enables you to find a nice workable tone throughout the entire control's range. In my strats, there's something special using that suggested value especially in overdrive whether in "blend" mode or not? Meaning you can then dial it completely all the way down to 1 and get a very nice result. It almost seems that there's a certain frequency reactance that occurs and you can leave it there forgetting that you've just spent the past 1/2 hour with your tone control all the way down... In all settings it seems to give you an entirely new set of voices and combinations to utilize. In my opinion the VALUE used is way more important than the type of cap used.

I will certainly give it a try.  You know we have discussed this before if you recall.  With the Strat I will try different configurations as the instrument lends itself to many adaptations.  I have tried a lot of different sizes and even series resistors/caps you suggested and parallel.

Now you know I cannot hear so that may be one of the problems.  Seriously, I have done setups with no load pots and used the old .002 and a lot of other values.  What I find is I keep the tone pot rolled way down and the majority of the highs I never use.  That being if I am playing my style.  When playing heavy rock, sure I have no tone control or very little.  I changed my main Telecaster to a .02uf and even that was too bright.

Since mostly we play Rhythm and I am usually riding string 1-4 staying out of the Bass players frequencies especially in country music where I am simply playing chordal runs if it gets too bright it does not sound very good.  So I setup my guitars according to what I am playing where they sound the best with just rolling the Volume.

I will try different values, but it is not just as simple as saying use a smaller cap and your tone control will allow more accessible frequencies and you can achieve the same tone as if you used a 47uf simply by rolling back on the tone pot.  I know you are not saying this either.  I just mention this as there is always give and take.  I have a old Valley Arts (Samick) guitar with 3 singles and it has a .1uf cap in it with a 1 meg no load tone and volume and the pots respond anywhere you put them.  It really is a nice setup and I did it goofing. Point is you never know what may change as you are dealing with a very small signal.

You got a Schematic to your strats wiring?

[jojokeo]

I thought we might've discussed it prior but you never know if the other person remembers or not, or if even I remember? 

I made a drawing which is easier to follow. Also, even though there is other stuff out there I prefer the Tone down on the bottom where I'm used to it being and having the Blender in the middle where it's more accessible. In the end, whatever is your personal preference? The Tone doesn't have to be a no-load pot but I like the extra signal I get plus a bit of extra brightness especially when in positions 2 & 4 with or without the Blender being activated since that quack is weaker & darker than the other settings anyway and this helps with that. I'll post a pic of how I make my own no-load pots (they are expensive) and can be done easily & cheaply.