Mod for normal channel on 5E3

[mayburyds]

Hi,


What modification/s do I need to do my 5E3 to reduce the high frequencies on the normal channel to make it more Strat friendly?


The bright channel is fine with my Tele and LP but the Strat is just too bright even for the normal channel.


Cheers.

[sluckey]

The easiest thing is use the tone control on the strat or switch to another pickup. Also try cutting back on the 5E3 tone control. Another easy (but expensive) thing is a different speaker.

[mayburyds]

Thanks for the reply.


I have been using the tone controls on the Strat but the middle pickup is not connected to one of the tone pots. I could just wire it up in the guitar but I really don't want to do that unless I have to.


The tone control on my 5E3 had minimal effect on the normal channel, certainly not enough to contain the top end on the strat, plus I was using any modification to learn more about tube amps. The only information I have found so far is about changing the coupling caps to .022uf to control the bottom end nothing about the high frequencies.


Happy with the speaker I have in at the mo after much trail and error.


Cheers.

[Willabe]

I have been using the tone controls on the Strat but the middle pickup is not connected to one of the tone pots. I could just wire it up in the guitar but I really don't want to do that unless I have to.

Why?

Many famous Strat players have their Strat rewired to have the tone control as a master tone control so it works on all 3 PUP's. It's pretty common.

I've play a Strat for years now for my #1 guitar and normal wiring on a Strat is tone control works on neck and middle pick up's (PUP's) but not the bridge PUP.

A tweed Deluxe 5E3 is not a very bright sounding amp. I live on the neck PUP but I do play the middle PUP and in no way is it too bright at all. 

One other thing is with Strat's often it's hard to find 1 where all 3 PUP's sound great/balanced together. So if you set the amps tone for the neck PUP when you try to use the bridge PUP it's now way to bright.

[MacGwyn]

I've cooled the highs by replacing the 68k resistor between the input and the V1 grid to a higher value, like 100k.  If you like the response with other guitars, it's probably a better idea to work on taming your strat, though.

[mayburyds]

I can understand changing the strat is the easiest option but I'd like to mod the amp on one channel and gain some knowledge on how amps work.


My 5E3 has always been very toppy. Tried a few speakers and switched to MM PT and OT trannies which have calm things down. Current speaker is a Celestion Heritage Greenback. Have NOS GE rectifier with NOS Tungsol 6V6's.


Apart from being very toppy with the strat I can also hear what I can only describe as a "sizzle" type noise as the notes decay. Doesn't happen with the Tele or LP.


Think I'll give the resistor change a go just on the normal channel.


Cheers.

[sluckey]

Put a .001µF cap across the plate resistor of the normal preamp. If that doesn't dull the tone enough, use a .002, if too dull, use a 500pF. Play with different caps until you find one you like.

This may cause other guitars to sound a bit muddy.

[jojokeo]

Put a .001µF cap across the plate resistor of the normal preamp. If that doesn't dull the tone enough, use a .002, if too dull, use a 500pF. Play with different caps until you find one you like.

This may cause other guitars to sound a bit muddy.

+1 was thinking same thing OR the old 100pf - 500pf cap across the plate & cathode socket pins.

[mayburyds]

Thanks guys, I'll give it ago.


Not too worried about the other guitars as they are fine in the bright channel.


Cheers.

[Ed_Chambley]

An Alnico speaker IMO works best in a 5E3.  Mine has a 4.7 bypass cap at V1 which should make it toppy, but it is not as I have a Celestion Blue in it and the Alnico speaker will compress before it gets too toppy in comparison to a ceramic speaker.  Also, original Tewwd Deluxe amps were Alnico.

Do you have a 12Ax7 in V1, if so try a 12Ay7.  I have found the 12Ay7 to produce a creamier tone in any tweed.

YMMV

[jojokeo]

I like the 12ay7 also as these amps can get plenty of breakup with one. For this type of amp I need & like a bit more headroom and playability and am not after a low headroom amp. It also is chimier with the 12ay due to the wider bandwidth gained.

[mayburyds]

I have an ay in v1.

One thing I found is taking the Boss tuner out of the chain. This reduce the top end a lot playing via the pedal board.

Didn't like the cap bridging across the plate resistor.

Cheers.

[mayburyds]

Don't have enough experience to tell if this is related but...


I unplugged the cable from the pedal board to the amp and got the usual pop from the amp as I hadn't turned it off. But this resulted in no sound after plugging the cable back in.


I powered off the pedal board to see if the problem was there but still no sound, so I swapped channels from the bright channel to the normal channel and had sound. Swapping back to the bright channel and I had no sound again.


Turned off the amp and swapped out V1 for a spare, plugged into the bright channel and turned on the amp and got the sound back! Put the original v1 tube back in and I still got sound!


Does something get "reset" by turning the amp off for a bit or do I have fault somewhere?


Cheers.

[shooter]

Does something get "reset" by turning the amp off for a bit or do I have fault somewhere?

If you didn't power off the amp and just plugged into ch2 and it worked, I'd look close at the input jack and socket pins for ch1.  Almost sounds like something mechanically marginal.  If you powered down the amp before plugging into ch2 then could be anything or nothing.

[mayburyds]

Yes, I just plugged into channel 2 without turning the amp off and it was OK. Plugging back into channel 1 nothing. Didn't get sound back on channel 1 till I turned the amp off and back on again.

I'll check the connections in channel 1.

Thanks for the reply.

Cheers.

[super&plexi]

i run my tone out in middle p.u of some of my strats also...but not ones with 1meg vol. too bright


what is vol. control...maybe 500k on L.P.     250-500k on tele maybe?     poss 1 meg,    but if  strat is  1 meg and others are 250-500k---then that would do it. Strat would be considerably brighter than rest.

[super&plexi]

I know you mentioned wanting to hit the problem from amp side but that sizzle part gets me...how well do you know your strat? might it have a pre amp inside, or did I miss part where you said so? not being 'dicky' at all, jus' askin' smiley face like. battery dying might do that sizzle, and active pre...   

[mayburyds]

Bog standard Eric Johnson strat, 250k pots and no pre amp. The middle pup has no tone control attached.


The answer is going to be what Willabe suggested a while back and wire in the middle pup to a tone control.



Cheers.

[mayburyds]

To close off this post - did the mod on the strat to have the tone control function on the bridge and middle pup.


I've also changed the Orange Drop caps for Mallory 150s and that made a big difference all round. Less bright, less harsh more control over the overall tone.


Thanks to all those that replied.


Till the next time!


Cheers.

[jojokeo]

I've also changed the Orange Drop caps for Mallory 150s and that made a big difference all round. Less bright, less harsh more control over the overall tone.

To be clear, all values were kept the same in the amp then? Just a change from all ODs to Mallory's?

[mayburyds]

Sorry for late reply!


Yep, I just changed the ODs to Mallory 150s.


Cheers.