Fender Amps "Snap-Crackle-Pop".......???

[Pastortom]

A question posed for all the guys here with experience in vintage Fender amps........

I've used these amps since the 70's, and one thing I've found common among them is a usual "snap-crackle-pop", as we call it.......sometimes heard as a slight hissing, perhaps with a little crackling along with it.....in worse cases, little annoying pops along with the other noises.

I've had people tell me so many different things about the causes that it's a mess to ponder it......Sometimes the amps quiet down after a good warm-up, but not always...........

What have you guys experienced as perhaps the main causes of these common noises in the old used amps?

[phsyconoodler]

Dirty tube sockets,bad reverb driver tubes,bad ground contacts.Dirt being the number one problem.
  Tubes and sockets make poor contacts.

[plexi50]

All of the above as phsyconoodler said

[woolly]

I see you are in Florida, you could have humidity problems, damp circuit boards
can cause this and affect other areas as well . maybe take a hairdryer and dry
out the board and see if this helps.

[Pastortom]

I'm not posting a particular problem I have right now with an amp........Just puttin' it out there as a "what's up wit' dat".......

I've heard so many Fenders do it that I wanted to hear what you'se guys had to say about it.

[Steve_P]

I've got a Vibrolux where the standby switch is dodgy. Hiss, crunch and noise. Spray it out and the thing sounds sweet!

[Ryteone]

I see you are in Florida, you could have humidity problems, damp circuit boards
can cause this and affect other areas as well . maybe take a hairdryer and dry
out the board and see if this helps.

This is very true on those dual layer fiber boards.  The heat gun or hot hair dryer can work well drying out those old boards.  That will also kind of reactive those old fiber boards.  I have to say I thought they were full of crap when someone first told me about this but it has worked (just don't know how long term of a fix it is, guess the boards lasted till this point!).

[EL34]

The circuit board is a big suspect

I worked on hunderds of fenders while living in FL

resistors and other things can cause crackling and hissing.
see the Fender service guide on my library page for more info.

[billcreller]

I always thought that Fenders were supposed to sound that way  Scoped mids flavored with hissing & crackling  The black board material and carbon resistors always seemed suspect to me.

[phsyconoodler]

I've found that removing ALL the old solder from a suspect joint and adding new solder cures lots of crackles.

[Fresh_Start]

I've found that removing ALL the old solder from a suspect joint and adding new solder cures lots of crackles.

+1 on that! 

Applies to new builds even more than old amps IME.

Chip

[Cork]

I have read that replacing the aged 100 ohm carbon comp resistors on the circuit board may take care of the problem of snap, crackle.

[archaos]

I've found that removing ALL the old solder from a suspect joint and adding new solder cures lots of crackles.

+1 ; I couldn't said that better.

[tech9_79]

something that i found on a twin(that also lived in FL SRQ) that was popping and crackling all over the place. the board has 2 layers, the top (with all the parts)and the bottom insulation layer.  At points where certain resistor/cap leads made contact with the bottom board, a blue/green corrosion had formed and was arcing straight to the chassis!  Pulled that carboard layer out and replaced it with a piece of plastic and viola! not one pop or crackle!  I tried hairdryers heaters lifting parts off the board ect..nothing completely did the trick. 

Pull the board and look for any signs of corrosion. 

[EL34]

All of that stuff is covered in my Fender service guide
Did anybody actually go have a look at it?????

http://www.el34world.com/charts/fenderservice6.htm

What good is a library if no one goes to it?

[DummyLoad]

What good is a library if no one goes to it?

i was out flogging the t-bird... until... j/k

i think it has a lot to do with instant gratification... why sift through seemingly endless amounts of reading when you can get an answer in a shot while.

[EL34]

You can't get an answer in one shot.
All you can get is a bunch of people saying it's this or it's that.
It can be many different things as you can see by the info in my document.

You get people saying to remove all the old solder and put in fresh solder????
WFT?
If you get a paint ding, do you remove all the paint first?

What a huge, time consuming and almost impossible thing to do, considering that you cannot suck that much solder out of a fender eyelet with any sort of common tool.
There is more solder under the board than above the board and in the eyelet!

If it is a solder joint (one of many things that it could be) all you have to do is add a touch of new rosin core solder and the joint will re-flow very nicely.

As you can tell, I am steamed
Even the model of Patience, Tubenit got a bit ticked opff by someone not willing to just go read and soak in the info.

That info is there so that people can read it 24/7 anywhere in the world without having to re-ask the same questions over and over.

[Rich]

Doug your reference material is a God send, I thank you very much.

Maybe part of the problem is that we are mostly old guys with chronic CRS.

[EL34]

Sorry about the rant last night

Tubenit and I just got through talking about this sort of thing and so it's still fresh and smoldering on my brain.
It's in the agreement when you join the forum to have a look at the library pages first
Chip (Fresh Start) spent a ton of time compiling the sticky post at the top of the forum.
The first link in his post says "Start here first" and that is a link to the library page

In my Florida shop (1993 to 2000), I advertised in Vintage guitar magazine for parts and amp service
I got flooded with amps sent to me because I fixed them right and the word got out.
After a while I got spoiled because there were so many Fenders coming in the shop
I stopped taking in Gibsons, Ampegs and other PITA amps because Fenders were gravy money and I had all the amps I wanted to work on.
I used to have a wall of Fenders in boxes waiting to be serviced.
I had to hire another helper to handle the flood of amps.
I got really good at fixing Fenders.

When I moved my shop to North Carolina, I stopped doing service work.
It was at that time that I sat down and wrote those papers while all the information was still fresh in my brain.
I covered every little odball noise and service tip that I could think of.
I just had a look at the Oddball noise document and there is a lot of good information there.
http://www.el34world.com/charts/fenderservice6.htm

Don't forget that there are several other handy fender servicing pages there also.

[oldhippy]

This seems like a good time to put in my 2 cents worth...I for one, have read and am grateful for all the articles in the library. I have read (and re-read) most of them and consider it priceless information from an impeccable source. I don't post often as I find most of the info I need in the library and save it in a thumb drive for the future. But sometimes I crave alittle human interaction and encouragement and this is an excellent place for that, as well.
My sincere gratitude for the finest tube site on the web! keep on tubin'! respectfully, Steve

[EL34]

yes, of course, this is where you ask questions.

My point is that after reading the available info, ask your questions.

[tubenit]

My point is that after reading the available info, ask your questions.

I agree with that. And the reality is ......... IF I do some reading first, then I can ask more specific and relevent and intelligent questions.  In other words, IF I read first .......... it will utltimately get me more of what I want  in the way of answers when I do ask questions.

I have done 1/1000th of posting info that Doug has, but I can tell you that what he has done has taken him probably 100's of hrs to share what he has learned over yrs and yrs of succesful practice.  Just posting the little bit I did on the TOS took me maybe a dozen hrs or so.

And when you expend an extraordinary amount of time trying to provide good information, it's pretty discouraging to not have someone take a minimal effort to value and learn from it.

As I side note, I don't consider myself patient. I will claim some measure of persistence that may appear to look like patience but it isn't.
 

With respect, Tubenit

[jhadhar65]

To follow the new direction this thread is going...

You're right, EL34, and I think ISOTone has it spot on regarding instant gratification.  It's more than that, though.  For example, most forums these days frown on pulling up old material and commenting on it. That's not exactly what we're talking about here, but it explains some things.  While I understand the rationale, most experienced forum-ites are conditioned to "just post a new thread", so that's what they do.  The problem with that is exactly what you identified - you run the risk of loosing good, solid advice/information and instead get whatever reply anyone is willing to throw out there.  The old thread with the "good" information is gone for all practical purposes - even if it's been archived.

Having been here this long, I've seen a multitude of good threads go by with information you just can't get free anywhere else, information that had its foundation built on what's already in the Library.  As it goes, some subjects come up again and again.  The quality of information in those repeat threads varies widely.  Eventually even the most knowledgeable poster will decide not to type the same thing over and over again and the new thread without that input suffers.  It seems the new threads that rehash old topics stop reinforcing what's in the Library because, in the same vein, knowledgeable posters get tired of saying, "For the 100th time this year, see the library."

I don't know the answer to it.  I'm as bad as anyone.  When I see the bazillionth thread on here about how their heater voltages are .001 volts too high, I just don't have the inclination to type yet one more time, "Don't freakin' worry about it."  I guess we should continue to stress that understanding tube technology and mastering the amp builder art is a marathon, not a sprint.  If you really want to do well and get the most out of it, you've got to do your time "in the Knowledge".  You have to study and read what we have here on the forum and in the Library and elsewhere.

It's known everywhere on the Inter-nut that the most knowledgeable people in the game post here.  I'm quite certain the modern tube amplifier industry has it's fingers on the Hoffman pulse.  How many interesting amp concepts were born here that miraculously found it's way into a new production amp?  More than a few, I'm sure.  Of course people want to ask their questions in near real-time and get Doug Hoffman's input.  Likewise, it must be pretty cool to take on a Sunn amp restoration project and hear directly from Conrad Sundholm on it as you go.  Stuff like that happens here.  Merlin Blencowe's here.  Richard Kuehnel is here on occasion.  So is Randy Jamz - the Tone Lizard hisself.  Good grief, we've got PRR!!!  Heck yes, I'm going to ask him about my heater voltages!  He might actually answer me.  I guess this forum is it's own worst enemy in that respect, but it's also what makes it so great.

Maybe the best solution is to keep saying, "Did you check the sticky at the top of the page?  How about the library???  Try the search box!!  Of course Hoffman has those parts, scroll up..."  Those that really want to learn will develop callouses on their eyeballs from reading so much.  Those that don't, will eventually wander off to go wherever they go.

Regardless, some topics we're just destined to see again... and again, and again and again, and...

[RicharD]

Library?  You have a library?  Next you're gonna tell me you sell amp parts too.  


I've noticed this forum seems to have waves.  Right now there's a bunch of redundant repair questions.  Next week we'll see a bunch of pictures of new schweet builds.  After that Geezer and Tubenit will post some new designs.  Somewhere along the way, I'll post some really odd misinformed question, and then the whole thing can star over again.  None the less, this is still hands down the coolest forum on the web.

BTW:  I'm 46 and I crackle and hiss a little myself.

[woolly]

Ha!     This was a hypothetical question by Pastortom and he hasn't responded since

 I posted on Sept. 22nd..