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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!  (Read 7286 times)

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Offline LooseChange

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Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!
« on: October 09, 2010, 06:59:48 am »
I've been working on a '64' Princeton Amp (no reverb).
I find two different schematics with the same AA964 designation.

I have this one archived but didn't match the amp I have...
http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/fender/PRINCETON_AA964.pdf

I found this one later and it's the one on my bench...
It has more filtering and the tremolo circuit is a bit different.
http://www.ampwares.com/schematics/princeton_aa964.pdf
This amp does not have much gain but sounds pretty good. The Trem is a bit weak too.

Any thoughts?  Is there a mojo about one than the other?
Call me Dan
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Offline Fresh_Start

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Re: Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2010, 08:37:26 am »
The Hoffman AA964 schematic looks like an earlier version "I-FD" near the top instead of "L-FD".  Also, the FFG/Ampwares schematic says "A division of Columbia Records Distribution Corp", not just "Fender Electrical Instrument Company".  Although the transformer part numbers are the same, the earlier version shows 325 VAC on the PT secondary instead of 340. 

The really odd thing about the earlier one is that it includes the same shape symbols for the Mallory cap can as the later schematic (and shape symbols actually on the cap can of the PR on my bench right now).  However, it looks like two sections of the cap can are tied together for a 40uf reservoir cap (plate node) in the earlier amp.  The PI and preamp voltages of the earlier version are higher because of the "missing" 18K/20uf node on the power rail which is un-used in the later schematic.  (Un-used in the sense of not being connected to anything.  It adds filtering for the PI and preamp and drops voltages.) 

My guess is that the earlier version has more clean headroom and more bass response with the 40uf filter on the plate node, but that's just a guess.  It probably sounds different when pushed into overdrive.  IOW maybe not as nice an overdrive sound - don't know though.

It's also interesting that the Princeton Reverb AA1164 schematics look like the later one with 340 VAC on the PT secondaries and 420 VDC coming off the rectifier.  However, the AA1164 screen, PI & preamp voltages are all a bit lower.  Must be due to current draw of the reverb section of the circuit.  Also, the FFG shows an AA1164 schematic which shows the same PT voltages & power rail layout as your later AA964 - but with a 5U4GB rectifier:
http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/schem/princeton_reverb_aa1164_schem.gif

The "Stokes" mod on Princeton Reverbs is to connect the PI to the "un-used" filter node on the power rail, raising the plate & cathode voltages of the concertina splitter.  The goal is to raise the clean headroom in the PI.  Some weird things do happen in that PI when pushed into distortion.  Look at THIS THREAD for a recent discussion.

You might want to try moving the splitter's plate supply to the power rail node between the two 18K resistors just to listen for an overdrive difference.

Weak tremolo might be a leaky cathode bypass cap on the tremolo triode.  Also, the power tube bias has a big effect on how much tremolo you hear.  Too hot, and you can't hear the tremolo as well.  Too cold and it sounds like crap (to use a technical term :wink:).

Don't know if that answered your question at all...

Chip
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Offline bibi

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Re: Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2010, 10:25:30 am »
I just fixed up one of these for a friend-- I hadn't seen that first version schematic so thanks for that!
I did a few things like add screen and grid resistors on the power tubes, plus a grid resistor on the Pi.
I didn't like how amp distorts personally without those mods.  If it were mine I would lose some of the feedback too.
As to the tremolo, I used an IRF820 source follower coupled to the 12AX7.  That definitely did the trick.  I think if you hear the tremolo but it's weak it's probably not a component failure.  Of course you can try a new 12AX7 but somehow looking at the circuit I doubt it was ever very strong even from the factory.

Offline Fresh_Start

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Re: Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2010, 10:27:26 am »
The tremolo in both of my Princeton Reverb clone builds is bone stock and works fine in terms of strength.

Cheers,

Chip
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We have proven once again no plan survives contact with the enemy, or in this case, with the amp.

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Offline eleventeen

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Re: Princeton Amp - AA964: Two schematics!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2010, 01:19:28 pm »
Just as a FYI; the
"I-FD" indicates September, 1964

and the "L-FD" indicates November 1964, somewhat like (and somewhat unlike) the two-digit stamp that appears on most early Fender tube charts.

 


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