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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Question about 18 Watt Stout options  (Read 5208 times)

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Offline knotscott

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Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« on: October 09, 2010, 08:51:27 am »
I'd like thank all of you who've answered my first two questions about transformers and which amp to build...lots of really useful and timely responses!  Your answers are greatly appreciated.

This time I'm wondering what Doug's hot switch does for the Stout, and what the function of the relay in the circuit is.  I did try finding the info on the site, but didn't find it....lots of info here! As always, TIA!

Scott
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 09:20:52 am by knotscott »

Offline Dave

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2010, 09:38:58 am »
The hotswitch adds a gain stage. It is a significant boost and demonizing gain source.

The relay is an automatic switch to switch in and out the hotswitch.

Dave

Offline shortfuse

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2010, 09:43:45 am »
Knotscott
Here is the one I am looking at http://www.el34world.com/projects/18WattStoutReverbHotSwitch_1.htm it is the one with the relayed hot switch and reverb go to the library and scroll down to mods & projects they are all there; no switch, on all the time, with switch, reverb and switch, and relay info.   How soon are you starting yours?  That's my next project if I can ever get through with my Firefly.


Offline tubenit

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2010, 09:45:28 am »
Please note what Doug says about the relay switching on the Stout.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline RicharD

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2010, 10:36:03 am »
Pay heed to Tubenit's advice.  IIRC, each stage has a gain of about 60 which is 3600 when cascaded.  You MUST spread out the layout or you'll have an 18W oscillator.  I built a stereo stout and did it split chassis, pres up top, PI and OPTs down below.  Worked flawlessly.  In fact, I loaned it out for a studio session and the dude wants to buy it now.

 :rolleyes:

Offline knotscott

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2010, 10:45:51 am »
Thanks for the replies.  To keep things simple, I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the non-reverb, non-switch version.   I can always build a stand alone reverb later.  It's suppose to be a project for this winter, but there's a good chance I'll at least get started a little this weekend (can you really only build a little bit of an amp?! :rolleyes:).  The OT is ordered, and I've got most of the other parts here already.  I owe my wife a computer desk from my wood shop first, but she's not around this weekend to monitor my activity.  :laugh:
« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 07:01:39 pm by knotscott »

Offline EL34

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 03:38:06 pm »
IMO, Forget the relay and switch

You can get from one end to the other extreme with the switch on
The switch just ads more wire and more hum.

Offline RicharD

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 05:16:16 pm »
+1  Just wire it over drive and rock on.

Offline shortfuse

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 05:40:26 pm »
Doug, are you saying wire it gain stage on full time and no switch at all or it is ok to put the the DPDT on the face of the chassis but not relay system?

Knotscott I wish you well with yours I should be starting on mine next week sometime.

Offline knotscott

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 07:02:16 pm »
Shortfuse - Did you finish up your Firefly already?

Offline TubeGeek

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 07:46:26 pm »
I built the 18 Watt Stout several years ago and honestly, I have kept the hotswitch gain "on" 99.999% of the time.  I agree with Doug and the others, skip the switch.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 11:54:44 am by TubeGeek »

Offline shortfuse

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2010, 10:28:51 pm »
Yes I finished the Firefly tonight.  It has been on going for a few weeks and I had a few growing pains along the way (I learned the correct way of installing and hooking up 12AX7 tube sockets).  The $5.00 (cost to build) Lamp limiter Butterylicious keeps harping about is definitely a good idea and could have saved me 2 weeks, $100.00 in additional parts, confidence & some embarrassment had I used one.  O'well that one is in the past and sounds great.

Well I just priced out the Stout with Reverb and W/O and there was about a $100.00 difference in cost so I am going to go W/O and use my Holier Grail pedal a while longer until I feel confident enough to attempt the Revibe Unit.  Mine is going to be a stand alone head.

Any opinions on making it a TMB model.  Does it rob a lot of tone?  There has to be a reason Doug made it with only Vol and tone.  Doug your thoughts?

Offline jbefumo

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2016, 06:49:08 pm »
This started off with an offhand, perhaps ill-advised offer to build my brother an amp out of whatever parts I happened to have left over around the shop ... 8^o
I had a 290-0-290 Edcor transformer (6.3V output as well, but no bias tap), a little 10k --> 16 ohm OT that was originally in my 2 X 6BM8 lunchbox amp, a pair of 6L6Gcs that I replaced with KT66s in my modified Super/pro Reverb, and the usual pails of crap that I swept up off the floor but never bothered to sort out ...
Also had a Hoffman Stout board that I'd bought with something in mind, but never used.
Initial thought was a little practice amp.
No way I expected these disparate parts to fit together in any kind of coherent manner.
Then I stumbled across the old 6L6 datasheet that listed a configuration for an 18W class-A, push-pull circuit. My 15W output trans was 16k-->16-ohm, and I had an 8W Altec Lansing alnico 416 12", so that seemed like it  would fit my 5k output trans requirement.
Figured I'd go with a tube rectifier to get the voltage down, but with no 5V tap available, that kind of limited my choices.  I ultimately went with an EZ81.  Still not low enough.  Ordered some Zeners, but got inpatient and just stuffed a big honking resister in the circuit -- when in doubt, use a bigger hammer!  Also, my PT had no center tap, so I had to make a hybrid rectifier using a couple of extra diodes.
Tried the basic stout tone control and really didn't like it -- to interactive, but ... found a little push-pull pot in the pail with a modified Big Muff tone control on it.
First pass sounded pretty good, but  too 'Marshall-y'.  My brother wanted something with some clean capability, and in an 18W package, really couldn't make that happen with all that preamp gain, so I added a bypass to the gain stage, and a 'gain' pot, configured so you couldn't turn it down to zero.
Cleaned up the phase inverter by switching to a 12AT7, and changing the resistors accordingly.  Also reduced the negative feedback a bit from the original Stout design.
With the gain stage bypassed, and the tone control bypassed, you can get some pretty decent clean volume -- just edging into crunch with the volume dimed.
I also reduced the gain of the gain stage just a tad -- substituted an 82K plate resistor for the original 100k.  Still sounded a bit brittle to my ear, so I bypassed the gain pot with a capacitor to ground, and that took the edge off.
 
 That Altec speaker is a gem!  I've always loved Altecs, and bought what was supposed to be a pair of 418s (75W) on Ebay.  They turned out to be 416s 25W), with one ripped cone, and the other a rubbing voice coil.  The seller refunded the cost and just told me to keep them.  I fixed the tear, and will eventually use the other one to practice reconing.  Unlike the guitar-centric Altecs, which feature frequency responses up to 7KHz, these are originally stereo woofers, and only go up to 4k or so -- still plenty of bite for my tastes, and in this application, the sound it suberb.
Also had a solid maple (including floating sound board) I made years ago.  Woodworking isn't exactly my forte', and this came okay (dovetail joints and all), but wasn't quite square...  Just recovered it with heavy hammock-weight canvas, 2 coats of Shellac and 2 coats of marine spar varnish.  Had JUST enough grill cloth to finish the job.
DAMN, but the sound is absolutely incredible!  Only problem is, between final test and installing it in the cabinet ... it stopped working 8^O.
Will address that tomorrow ...
 
Technical competence is the servant of creativity.

Offline jbefumo

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2016, 03:35:35 pm »
This started off with an offhand, perhaps ill-advised offer to build my brother an amp out of whatever parts I happened to have left over around the shop ... 8^o


Well, here's where it ended up ....


https://youtu.be/gnHKH098H5Y


Pretty happy with the result, considering it's all made from left-overs...

Technical competence is the servant of creativity.

Offline knotscott

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Re: Question about 18 Watt Stout options
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2018, 06:31:32 am »
It's been a very long time (> 7 years!) since I originally posted questions about the 18 Watt Stout here, but wanted to give everyone who replied an update.  Just yesterday I finished it up, and had my boys give it a workout for a couple of hours yesterday!  (what a great feeling after all these years!) 


I ended up doing a very basic Hoffman Stout 18 watter with just volume and tone control.  No gain switch, no gain knob, no reverb, etc.  I got the circuit about 70% wired several years ago, but got distracted with other things until recently when one of my sons was asking about building a tube amp for his guitar (he had no idea I had started the 18 watter years ago).  I pulled the project out of moth balls, and tried to finish up where I left off.  Once I thought I had it done, I discovered a litany of errors and problems that took a couple more weeks to diagnose...missed a couple of wire connections, had a bad choke (used), made a connection error, etc.  Got it fired up yesterday for the first time, and am very encouraged by how well it works and how great it sounds.  We hooked it to a Warehouse Guitars ET65 speaker and his Fender Strat.  Beautiful classic tube sound, pretty darn quiet, and great tone.  Later on, number two soon came over and hooked his classical guitar into and it sounded incredible....just a beautiful sparkle to it.  I haven't experimented too much with tubes yet.  We've currently got a 5UA4 rectifier along with two Sovtek 12AX7s and two Sovtek EL84s in it, but may experiment more later....any suggestions for the best performing tubes for this circuit? 


I'm going to build some sort of a box for it soon, and get the knobs all labelled.  First thought was to build it into an old wood carpenter's tool tote and call "The Tool Box", but we'll see how all that shakes out.  We're still talking about possibly adding a gain knob, but its so quiet now...don't want to lose that....maybe I'll just make a pedal that he can switch in. 


Anywho....that's where we're at.  Thanks to the fine folks who replied back in 2010!

(the extra tube you see is just a spare sitting in an extra socket that I might add a magic eye to)
&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 10:06:24 am by knotscott »

 


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