Silver jubilee ceriatone clone on 2210!?

[Andre Oliveros]

Guys im the owner of the JCM 800 2210, and i was thinking, could be posible to remove the board of this amp, and install the ceriatone jubilee clone, doing the respective mods? i mean can i use the parts of the 2210, to complete the ceriatone board?

any ideas thanks

Dre.

[FYL]

I wouldn't mod a JCM. Keep it in stock form if you like it, resell it and buy another amp if you don't. BTW the 2210 is a reverb model, the JS aren't, so your existing chassis would be full of unused holes...

[Andre Oliveros]

well, the problem is , that the jcm doesnt work, a lot of people have seen that amp and no one can fix it, also i the transformers are new because it supoussed to be that, as well as the filter caps, it has pretty much everything but the board new, Transformers, filter caps, switches, tubes, and it has the same problemthat doesnt work the amp properly , so im pretty tired of that, thats why i was thinking about that idea, i dont mind the unused holes, or the reverb i just want an amp that works using the things that i already buy.

[sluckey]

Converting that amp to another amp is doable but it's going to be much more complicated and involved than fixing the simple bias problem in that amp. Anyone that can successfully convert that amp should also be capable of fixing the bias problem.

[FYL]

well, the problem is , that the jcm doesnt work, a lot of people have seen that amp and no one can fix it

It seems that the problem is bias-related, something pretty simple to fix. Building a whole amp is much more difficult.

Have you contacted Cesetec? They're supposed to be really good and are the official network of service centers for Marshall products in Brazil.

http://www.cesetec.com.br/

[Andre Oliveros]

i posted a thread well various threads, about this amp, but no one can help me , the last thing that our friend renzc suggested was that was something wrong with the ground , because we already change the transformers and also checked the bias section, the whole problem is in this thread... http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=6512.msg92968#msg92968
but im kinda desperated with this theme, and no solution for years... ill be happy to post pictures and everything if someone wants to help me , ill be the hands. but i do want to repair this amp, and like it says in the whole thread the amp has almost everything new, and acording to the last guy that tried to repair the amp, every component its in good shape if not new.

thanks ill be very happy if someone can help me to fix this for good
.

Dre.

[sluckey]

The bias issue with that amp was never resolved. Just because the PT was changed doesn't mean that the new one is still working properly. The bias will be an issue until you can measure approx. -50vdc on the output tubes grids. There have been a lot of inexperienced hands inside that amp. You really should take it to a competent shop and pay to have it fixed.

[Andre Oliveros]

well believe it or not theres no shops in my country, thats why am asking for help since it got bad, because i already took that amp to stores that sell amps, and has "service" but they dont want to try to fix my amp because "they are afraid, to not fix it" thats my main problem believe me ill rather pay for someone than all that headache and bad spended money but here no one fix tube amps, i already asked for electric techs and no one wants to fix that amp, i mean no one really and believe me i have search like mad for someone that can or in my case wants to fix the amp.

Dre.

[sluckey]

Send it to the states.

[Andre Oliveros]

well shipping its a big issue since they ll charge 200$ aprox for send it and another 200$ for bring it back, plus the price of the repair would be a expensive choice dont you think?, but thanks anyway for your solutions man.

[phsyconoodler]

Did you have any pictures?It is really easy to do the bias supply in those amps.

[FYL]

well believe it or not theres no shops in my country, thats why am asking for help since it got bad, because i already took that amp to stores that sell amps, and has "service" but they dont want to try to fix my amp because "they are afraid, to not fix it" thats my main problem believe me ill rather pay for someone than all that headache and bad spended money but here no one fix tube amps, i already asked for electric techs and no one wants to fix that amp, i mean no one really and believe me i have search like mad for someone that can or in my case wants to fix the amp.

Você já contactou Cesetec? Eles deveriam ser muito boa e são a rede oficial de centros de serviços para produtos de Marshall no Brasil.

http://www.cesetec.com.br/

(In Portuguese this time)

[Andre Oliveros]

thanks for that page but am from guatemala, i dont see how this page would help me since im in central america and this directory its from brasil wich is in south america,  or they can help me anyway, if so how?

Dre.

[Willabe]

      Hey,    Im having a hard enough time understanding some of this stuff in english.     
               
                Now  Poruguese !      :confused2:       

           
          Brad     

             

[FYL]

thanks for that page but am from guatemala

Sorry. I thought you were from Brazil. My bad.

I've no local service center or repair facility listed in my files. All operations for major brands are handled thru hubs in Miami or the US SE. The largest local distrib seems to be Preludio Domisol in Guatemala City, but I've no further info.

You may contact Marshall in the UK, maybe they can help you.

If not your options are quite limited: ship the amp to a qualified service center abroad, have it repaired and sent back.

[VMS]

Hi,

post some pictures so that we can see the current condition of the amp.

[Andre Oliveros]

ok ill post pictures of everything, that can be usefull i remember that i had some photos uploaded but the servers are down the only one by now is this one that took the last guy that tried to fix the amp.

https://tech502.com/Archivos/Components.jpg

[Andre Oliveros]

dammit this one is down to, ill upload new photos as soon as  i can.

Dre.

[sluckey]

Dre, my suggestion to ship to the states was not helpful. It was also not meant literally. I understand your frustration with this amp and having no one in country that will fix it for you just adds to that frustration. I worked with someone called hctrjs during the entire month of April. We danced around the bias circuit the entire time and I don't believe we ever got in sync together. I'd ask this, he'd report this. I'd ask that, he'd answer that. But, the info he was reporting was often conflicting, so I could never quite trust which answer was correct.

Refer to this schematic... http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/marshall/jcm800_splitch_100w_2210.pdf

We need to know unconditionally if the PT bias winding is good. Disconnect the PT bias wire (white) and just let it dangle in the air. Now measure the AC voltage between that wire and chassis ground. What do you get?

CAUTION. UNPLUG ALL OUTPUT TUBES UNTIL THE BIAS PROBLEM IS FIXED!

[Andre Oliveros]

ok ill do that, i think the problem was that he doesnt know about amps, and my problem is that i dont know to much about electronic things but i get a pretty good idea of it, also the lenguaje doesnt help me to much to understand , so be free of explain to me (if you would be to kind) with wire colors, shapes, or simply telling me how do i have to set the voltmeter, whatever that can help ill do it also im not that afraid of electrical shocks, not because am a dumbass but because i already know the basics to work with amps, also soldering, and im very perfeccionist , so basically i want to fix this and also do it in the best and clean way posibble, -time is not an issue for me ill take the time to do the right things.

thanks very much for your time also , because i know you were trying to help the guy.

Dre.

[woolly]

Hi Andre. I remember your amp well. Slucky is the Best! yes, I think it is good "You" do this with
Slucky. I'm sure you can fix it. 

[Shrapnel]

Intente http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ para las palabras y las frases que son duras para que usted traduzca al inglés. Puede ser que no trabaje siempre la manera que esperamos, pero puede ser que sea más fácil que teniéndolo interpretó mal

I used that site for the above translation to Spanish from English.

[FYL]

Puede ser que no trabaje siempre la manera que esperamos, pero puede ser que sea más fácil que teniéndolo interpretó mal

Do you really want to order a steak and kidney pie with plaster and strawberries on the side, served by a blind dwarf riding a unicycle?

Friggin' automatic translators...
 

[Andre Oliveros]

well today im taking the pictures, i was watching the amp yesterday, i have not watched it since the guy bringed it back to me , and hell, its worst than it was, bad soldering in some areas , wich a fixed yesterday, ill post the pics, of everything, to me look suspicious in some areas, so ill be happy to show you guys the pics and maybe you guys can circle and tell me whats wrong and what i have to change and redo, also maybe would be great if we can fix this one i have another amp... a fender Bassman 100 wich its doing a horrible hum, ill post pics of that one too but maybe later, after we fix the marshall, thanks to everyone and lets get started.

Dre.

[rzenc]

So, no joy yet?

Oh man... I feel you pain... how long have you been trying to put it together?

Best Regards

Rzenc

[Andre Oliveros]

almost 3 years now, i only used the amp like 4 months and it was enough for falling in love.
hopefully anytime soon ill fix it by myself, the bright side is that am going to be the only Guatemalan, who repairs tube amps :D.

[Shrapnel]

Puede ser que no trabaje siempre la manera que esperamos, pero puede ser que sea más fácil que teniéndolo interpretó mal

Do you really want to order a steak and kidney pie with plaster and strawberries on the side, served by a blind dwarf riding a unicycle?

Friggin' automatic translators...
 

 :toothy9: I never said to constantly use it.  :tongue3: I know translators are not perfect, but the worst I've ever seen only seem to mangle sentence structure leaning towards the original language... Then again a bad translator can have your head on a platter in some places (Human or machine).  :evil3: Then again, the life most people think rock stars have might benefit from the translation work of Corey Feldman in "The Goonies."

[Andre Oliveros]

OK HERES THE WHOLE ALBUM WITH A BUNCH OF HIGH RES PHOTOS, ANY IDEAS OR SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME!

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/Guayajilla/JCM%20800%202210/

(let me know if the link work for you guys)

thanks

Dre.

[sluckey]

Dre, I've looked at your pics. Seems that the wiring around the rectifier end of the board has changed since I last saw this amp. Looks like the amp will blow the mains fuse immediately when you flip the standby switch. Look at picture DCS00822. See the two light blue wires on the lower right side? Those wires come directly from the STBY switch and the other side of that switch is connected directly to the HT winding of the PT. Back to the board. The light blue wires are connected in such a way as to have a direct short across them. That's wrong! According to the schematic, your amp uses a bridge rectifier. But the board is set up to run either a bridge or a conventional rectifier, simply by changing some jumpers (links) on the board. Of course, you would have to use an appropriate PT also. Also, the yellow (HT center tap) wire should not be connected to the board for a bridge rectifier.

It would be a simple matter to determine which PT you have and to wire it to the circuit correctly if I had the amp on a bench. I don't think I can explain to you how to do this though. And there's a chance that PT is bad by now also.

The wiring to the cap cans looks terrible, especially the grounds.

Probably, if the PT is still good, the bias problem will also be fixed if/when the PT is wired correctly.

[VMS]

Hi Dre,

here's some pictures that show how the amp was originally wired:

http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marshall/JCM%20800%20Series/2210%20JCM%20800%20MV%20Split%20Channel%20100W/87%202210%20JCM%20800%20MV%20Split%20Channel%20100W%20SN%20SAV24088/index.html

That is, if this is the same model that your amp is.

[Andre Oliveros]

do you think the PT is bad? it hasn been turned on the amp after the guy bringed back to me , and i just put the wires when they was, but i also knew that this isnt how i left the board the last time, so i guess that cables are just there because a "quick i have to return your amp fast thing" so just let me know what you need , so i can re wire correctly the PT, or change what i have to change to get started, what you need to know ?? ill bring that info

thanks
Dre.

[Andre Oliveros]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mag-100w-Power-Transformer-Marshall-JCM800-JMP-Amp-/110603528623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c07be9af#ht_811wt_885

this is the transformer i buyed.
this is the one that is on the pics, its a new one and also i doubt has been used by the guy that was "fixing" the amp


Dre.

[VMS]

I named some wires on this picture so that it would be easier to follow.


What do you guys think, does the black wire from the rectifier go to that point near the potentiometer?

[Andre Oliveros]

that black goes to ground, as i remember that my amp was has that one to ground and the other one its at the last hole from left to right in the up side of the board.

Dre.

[VMS]

Ok, according to this thread, both of those black wires should go to ground:

http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=10272.msg93979#msg93979

[Andre Oliveros]

well, everything in my amp is now conected as the picture, and as it has to be, question where should i start? also in that thread the tubes are a problem, should i try another Quartet in some point? remember that the main problem in my amp started where it blowed the fuse, and then the tubes started to glow pretty red till blowed the new fuse, so where i start now with the readings?

Dre.

[sluckey]

CAUTION. UNPLUG ALL OUTPUT TUBES UNTIL THE BIAS PROBLEM IS FIXED!

The bias problem will be fixed when you can measure approximately -50vdc on pin 5 of each of the output tube sockets.

Can you show us another picture of the rectifier end of the circuit board now that you have corrected the wiring errors?

[Andre Oliveros]

yes ill bring that pics, am hoping to clean up all the amp, i mean all that ugly soldering job, and also the cables not to be that mess¥ ill bring the photos, where should i put the voltmeter (mode) just to be sure? to do the right readings?

Dre.

also how can i set the voltmeter to test the components to be sure that are ok?

[sluckey]

Put one meter probe to chassis. Put the other probe to pin 5 of one of the output tube sockets. Set your meter to read -50vdc. I don't know which meter you have. Read your instruction manual if you don't know how to set your meter.

[Andre Oliveros]

ok to not kill the thread, news... im cleaning all the amp, i found  things doing this, it was a loose ground in a tube socket, also a pin was about to break in other tube socket wich actually broke when i pulled the cable out, so i ordered yesterday 4 new tube sockets for the power tubes, also i found a lot of horrible solders in the tube sockets, i also re wired the cables that are atached to the filter caps ,so im cleaning everithing, but i have to wait till the sockets arrive to keep doing everything, ill post pics when i finish the amp, and then i can start with the correct readings. i was thinking that maybe something simple like that ground loose, and the bad pin in the tube socket might be causing all the trouble, dont you guys think so...


thanks for all, ill be posting some news
Dre.

[woolly]

yes this is possible. keep up the good work. 

[Andre Oliveros]

ok, i just finished to clean and rewire the amp, tube sockets, PT, and the filter caps, i measured pin 5 and nothing, so here are the pics of how is the amp now check and iam ready to start back with the readings, by the way i just electrocuted, and my hands hurt like hell :S but everything AOK, it also arrived my new book the last thursday, "all about vacuum tube guitar amplifiers" :) so am learning more. here the link for the album:

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/Guayajilla/JCM%20800%20new%20pics/

[sluckey]

Your rectifier diodes are still not connected properly!

[Andre Oliveros]

no? whats wrong? im having a hard time figuring out where or how they should be conected, im connecting them how the last guy did and also like the picture that a guy posted here recently, how they should be conected?, (note: in this areas the pcb to me just dont seem to be right, it look like the conducting material has gone kinda bad wich brings me to another question that crossed my mind, is there a way to build a separate to the pcb bias supply? and if so, isnt more easy to do that?

[Andre Oliveros]

Note: that red cable that you see that goes to the diode its coming from the STBY switch, because in the back of the pcb was impossible to solder that cable but the path goes to the same place... that leg of the diode, wich its not connected to anything else that affects.

Dre.

[VMS]

Ok, show us a picture that shows the amp as it is wired right now.

There shouldn't be a red wire on a standby.

I think you have the wiring correct on this picture.

You could disconnect the white bias wire and measure if you get ~100VAC from that.

Make sure that nothing is connected to that yellow wire that I marked CT tie point.

[sluckey]

Where did that pic come from? It isn't part of the new set of pics you posted.

There are two blue wires twisted together and connected to the STBY switch. Both of those wires must correctly connect to the diode bridge rectifier on the board. Your new pic "DSC00855.jpg" clearly shows only one blue wire connected. So where is the other blue wire really connected?

[Andre Oliveros]

ok, the new blue wire is connected to the first (left to right) "green spot" in the picture i posted now, the pic is an old one but i used to show you guys were is now the blue wire connected, the tip of the cable is now red because the blue was burn, so i putted red one to cover the wire where it was more abused,

[Andre Oliveros]

theres no missing wire its attached in the back of the pcb , its a yellow wire

[VMS]

Ok, I think the wiring is correct.

Now you should measure the voltages.