Welcome To the Hoffman Amplifiers Forum

September 06, 2025, 04:20:31 am
guest image
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
-User Name
-Password



Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: TOS & CF  (Read 16370 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
TOS & CF
« on: April 16, 2011, 12:44:24 pm »
I took the Tweed Overdrive Special and added a cathode follower to the V2a triode.

Quote
This was one of the coolest and most fun experiments that I've done. And successful too! And it didn't take too long since I had a spare V2b triode already.

It's not a better tone but it is quite different than the TOS which has more of the Dumblish tone.

Probably 75% of the TOS wah/vowel tone is gone. However, the harmonics are unbelievably sweet sounding now and there is a Marshally crunch that sounds excellent to me. The harmonics are signficantly more pronounced now to my ears.  I think Geezer's HoSo56 amp design had this type of sweet harmonics to it.

The sustain is about the same, I would say.  It still blooms but not into the vowel tone. The notes just simply swell and head into sort of a musical feedback.

IF I had heard this amp & didn't know anything about it:

I'd describe it as a very musical harmonically rich Marshall tone with a smooth crunch to it with the chording & rhythm.  It has more of the ZZ Top Marshall & some of the Joe Bonamassa Marshall type tone to it.

I'd say it is easier to hear each note in the chording with this wiring compared to the original TOS.

However, playing lead with single notes and double stops, etc ............ it sounds more like a blend of a Marshall amp with the Dumblish sustain.  The notes hold great and have very musical sweet harmonics and they still swell into a sustain. The vowel tone is mostly gone.  The best way I can describe it, is I am getting the kind of sustain that I got from the Plexi 25w and Plexi 50w amps I built using a good tube screamer.  Except again the harmonics are much richer sounding to my ears with this amp.

In summary, with chording and rhythm ......... I think someone might mistake it for a really sweet musical sounding Marshall amp.  With playing lead, I think it sounds more Dumblish but with a loss of the vowel/wah tone.

The amp has more of a smooth crunchy tone and less creamy vowel tone.

That's probably the best I can describe it. My guess is that I'll leave it this way? I'll have to play it with the band first to make a final decision. I am anticipating that the chording with this amp will cut thru the mix just perfectly.

I honestly think if someone came to me and asked me to build a Marshall type amp but with more sustain and mids, this is probably what I'd try to get them to consider


EDIT:   Since I changed the cathode follower to be after the 5879 instead of the V2a ............ I deleted the schematic & layout.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:54:05 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 05:55:01 am »
Another idea putting a cathode follower behind the 5879 pentode instead.

This does NOT have the Marshall crunch. However, it has incredible sustain and blooming. The notes are
both smoother and clearer (not cleaner) sounding than NOT using the CF after the 5879.  The harmonics are excellent.

It does NOT have the vowel/wah tone that the original TOS had.  

However, it does have the creamiest smoothest OD of any of the TOS variations.  I find myself turning the trim to about 7 and turning the drive to about 3 and then the level to about 6 for my favorite tone.

CHECK for errors and compare schematic and layout.  I cleaned up the schematic somewhat and reposted it.

Some voltages are in the pdf file.       The 5-14-11 is the very latest/current version and my favorite.

with respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:55:35 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 10:30:14 am »
My VVR in the TOS started sounding fizzy, so I replaced it with the LarMar PPIMV.  I think it sounds great between 7-10 and gets a little thinner between 5-7 & is anemic sounding below 5, IMO.

I had siliconed the filter caps together, so I did not want to remove or bypass the 40uf cap, so I used it with the 250R/5w resistor. That resistor gets pretty hot to the touch, but calculations have the 5 watts just over double of what is supposedly needed.

With respect, Tubenit

EDIT:  I added a Rzenc TOS idea.  He wanted a TOS that had FX & Reverb on board.

2nd EDIT: I'm adding a 5E3 tone stack version of this also.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 06:13:30 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 03:26:33 pm »
I rebuilt the board for this amp using Hoffman's board material but with a paralleled turrets. The amp is super quiet at idle but can crank to be a pretty loud amp using a Cannabis Rex speaker cab.

I rebuilt the board because the tagboard was flimsy and after numerous tweaks it looked awfully messy. I bought a Hoffman blank board and narrowed it by cutting it with a hack saw. The hack saw made short work of the board.

Why two cathode followers???  Because I figured out it smoothed the 5879 OD and that it seemed to help sweetened the tone of the digital delay.  This allowed a CF on the clean and the OD channels prior to the effects loop with the digital delay.

I tried bypassing the mosfet CF to see what the difference was. The mosfet CF seemed to give a little bit more gain but with NO loss in transparency that I could hear.  I think the digital delay sounded better with the mosfet CF in the circuit also.

I used Orange Drop SP series caps everywhere except two locations. I used a Malloray 150 .001 across the 5879 plate resistor.  I also used a Orange Drop 715p .001 in parallel with a Orange Drop SP .0042. I actually tried a .001 Mallory, .0012 OD SP & then an .001 OD 715P. The .001 OD 715p made a signficant difference in giving some brightness to a smooth tone. I feel like the paralleled SP (smooth) and 715P (bright) allowed a nice balance ending up with a smooth reasonably bright tone. It did allow more harmonics also than using two paralleled SP caps in that place.

I found that ceramic disc caps would sound better in some place than Silver Mica. In other cases, they sounded equally good with no signficant difference for some reason. I want to emphasize that IF one sounded better than the other, it was always the ceramic disc ........ otherwise they sounded pretty much the same.  I have NO idea why in some cases it made a difference and in other locations, no difference.

I've learned that using a cathode cap on the triode before the cathode follower dramatically shapes the tone of the entire amp. For example, removing a 2.2uf cap on V1-8 (prior to the mosfet CF) gave the amp a MUCH smoother tone and eliminated some grit that I didn't want.  AND reducing the 2.2uf to a 1uf on the 5879 cathode made a dramatic difference also. Completely eliminating the cathode cap on the 5879 removed alot of harmonics. 2.2uf gave it some grit but the blooming was excellent. Using the 1uf made no difference in the blooming that I could tell, but gae it a much smoother tone.

Again, I want to emphasize that cap, or no cap or cap value/size really made a HUGE difference in my amps on the triode cathode prior to the CF. It made an amazing difference that I would have never suspected.

I used RV65D Vishay 1/2watt metal film resistors on the plates and most other locations except the cathodes. The except was the cathode of the Mosfet CF and the cathode of the V2-8 which was the cathode follower after the 5879.

I reworked the tone stack.  There is a 121k trim pot on the board for the bass. It actually measured around 95k. I used a 500k min-pot in a hole that previously held a DPDT switch. The hole had to be slightly enlarged for the mini-pot. This tone stack really does work and you can hear a very clear difference turning either the treble, mid or bass pot.

I noted on the voltage chart what my favorite pot settings and noted the voltage divider values that the pot gave in that particular setting.  I usually have the OD trim pot at "3" but occasionally will move it as high as "5".

I believe at this juncture, that this is the best sounding amp I've made. The clean sounds rich and full and the notes are smooth and each note stands out clearly in chording.  Kicking in the OD is really cool because the OD tone remains a clear tone but sounds very overdriven and the blooming and sustain is remarkable, IMO.

I hope someone will build this and report on their own results.

EDIT: I removed the master volume on the clean channel and added what I call a "chime" pot. This tone stack is switched in when the PAB is engaged. Note the tone stack prior to V1b is partially removed when the PAB is engaged.  This mod adds a tone stack that has more chime and more of a vowel/wah type tone. I think the chime pot would help cut thru a band mix more easily.

EDIT: I added the "TEC" enhance cap across the LTPI plate resistor. This allowed me to lower the value of smoothing caps in the preamp and OD section. Lowering the cap values removed some mid frequency grit/grind. I feel like it allows for clearer sounding chording. It seemed to brighten the tone somewhat and improved harmonics some.   I also changed the .033 mid cap to a .033 + .0052 making a .038 cap. This seemed to define the mid tones more clearly.          All of these mods are in the 12-11-11 schematic.


With respect, Tubenit



« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 07:58:28 am by tubenit »

Offline William_G

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 05:28:27 pm »
Tubenit,

This latest TOS 2 CF is like you say the best of all the TOS amps! My TOS amp is 40 watts with jj 6L6 power tube. It started out as the first version of the TOS amp, than I did your mod with the new tone stack and the CF after the 5879 with the smoothing caps. I just finished the latest up date to the amp.

I took out the VVR and put in the LarMar PPIMV and played the amp that way for a day, but was not happy with the sound below 7 on the PPIMV. I took out the PPIMV and replaced it with a master volume before the effects input, IMO I like the sound of the amp better when I turn down the MV now, it does not get as thin sounding.

The clean channel now has a fuller sound than it did in the past versions IMO and the notes are now clearer sounding. The PAB with the chime pot give the clean channel a great different sound, a bit overdriven with the ability to change the tone on the chime pot.

The overdrive channel sounds even better now and it sounded real good in the past versions. If you have the PAB on and the overdive on you get a lot more overdrive than any of the past versions.

This is now a really great sounding amp!!!!!!! If you have thought about building a TOS amp this is the ONE TO BUILD!!!!

Thanks Tubenit for all your hard work tweeking this amp to the great amp it is now!

Thanks, William_G
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 08:02:03 pm by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Current & latest TOS & CF
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 06:04:56 pm »
William_G,

Thanks for the feedback on the amp!  I am glad that you like it.

It's a tweaker's amp more than a cloner's amp ..........so I am delighted to hear that you kept trying stuff to make the amp you want!  BRAVO!

I appreciate hearing your report on the tone.  Thanks for sharing it!  IF you ever make some sound bits, I hope you will share those also.

CHECK for errors and if there is a difference, change the layout to match the schematic. Schematic is correct.

With respect, Tubenit

EDIT:  See the latest schematic and layout with current tweaks attached.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 08:00:22 am by tubenit »

Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7738
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 05:46:07 am »
Hi Tubenit

looking to the last schematic and layout I've find some minor differences

there was a switch with swapped name (layout is s1 -- shematis is s2)

one cap is 2.2uf in the layout and 4.4uf in the schematic

one resistor was connected to the B+ instead than to the plate of V2

there was a missing resistor on the layout, the 4.7M resistor between ground and .0022 cap (on the right of the schematic)

Please can you confirm I'm correct ?

Can you give some infos about relay board and the order of the pot in your faceplate ?

where is placed the mini pot connected to the V1 pin1 > 68K > .038 > 150k (500K||220k) ?

Many Thanks for sharing this great project

Kagliostro
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 07:36:19 pm »
The schematic is accurate so match the layout to the schematic. what you have added in red look like appropriate corrections.

I am not sure I am understanding your questions, but I'll try to answer them.

The relay board is a Weber VST relay board.

The volume pot is on the back of the chassis since I don't adjust it much. It's fine on the front panel if you have room for it.

The pot controls look just like on the layout. The mid pot is a mini-pot without a knob on it.  The bass trim pot is like on the layout also. It's fine to put the bass pot on the front. I don't adjust it and didn't have room for it.

Quote
one resistor was connected to the B+ instead than to the plate of V2
   

I don't understand this comment? Not sure what you're seeing?

with respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 07:50:10 pm by tubenit »

Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7738
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 07:19:25 am »
Hi Tubenit

Thanks for the infos

Quote
The relay board is a Weber VST relay board

the question is: both switch are with relay control ?

If I don't misunderstand about pot position you mean that if there is enough space they can be useful if placed in the front panel

the use of a mini pot is due to space reasons

the other pot (500k || 220k on the board) can also be put on the front panel and isn't a "set and forget trimmer" and can be act as to have effects on tone, if I put it on the front panel have you councils about its value ?

Quote
one resistor was connected to the B+ instead than to the plate of V2

I don't understand this comment? Not sure what you're seeing?

I was thinking cap but I wrote resistor, sorry

Kagliostro
The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 11:35:04 am »
I only have one relay DPDT and it is for OD/Clean.  IF I had a 2nd relay, I'd have it be the mid-boost (probably?). I am using the CF tone stack more than the original Dumblish style tone stack. It has a "softer" & perhaps smoother tone to it.  I think all the recent soundbits had the CF tone stack on.

If I had to do it over again, I honestly would probably try to have the treble, mid and bass all on the front but use smaller mini-pots. I tend to set and forget my tone controls for the most part.  Most of the tone changes I make while actually playing are on the guitar 5-way switching.

Yes, I understand now. You're right I had the cap connected to B+ instead of plate.

I am actually kind of excited to hear about your TOS build. I sure hope you enjoy yours. It comes closer to my ideal tone than any amp I've played or built. It has been a very very fun build.  Remember, this really is a tweaker's build. You've got to personalize it after building it.
 :thumbsup:

Best regards, Tubenit



Offline kagliostro

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 7738
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 07:44:27 pm »
Thanks for the added infos

I'm still waiting for the ordered parts

my TOS II sure will sound in a different way

I'm building a preamp so it will be used with different PA

Grazie ancora

Kagliostro

The world is a nice place if there is health and there are friends

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2012, 07:01:29 am »
There is no change in the 1-5-12 schematic.   I simply renamed it the 3-12 schematic for this specific post.  The reason is that I drew up a Hoffman Style layout to go with that build.   This was a VERY difficult layout to draw up, IMO.   Note that a terminals strip is needed between the board and the front panel pots to accomadate components between the DPDT relay &  the "trim pot".

CHECK for ERRORS!   If there is any discrepency, go with the schematic as it is correct.

EDIT:  I tried an 82p cap on V1a from V1-1 to V1-3 pins. I like this. It added some smoothness. I can not hear a loss of the highs, but the high frequency sounds a little smoother & whatever slight harshness was there using a digital delay has somewhat been removed. No change on tone, sustain, harmonics .....etc......

With respect, Tubenit
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 02:09:22 pm by tubenit »

Offline Glennjeff

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2013, 12:10:36 am »
tubenit,

The layout TOS 3 -12 Hoffman you provide here appears to be drilled very differently to the picture of the board that is on offer from Hoffman Amps here

http://www.hoffmanamps.com/MyStore/perlshop.cgi?action=template&thispage=BoardBuilding&ORDER_ID=137653070

I am wondering if the board that is pictured at that link is for the original TOS 1. I am building the TOS CF version and would need that board.

All the best.

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2013, 05:06:57 am »
The TOS 3-12 is a different amp than the original TOS.  You'd need to build your own board.

Here is a program that Doug has where you can design your own boards:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=12317.0

I don't have a drill press, but can build a Hoffman style turret board very easily in about 30 min.  I use a hacksaw to saw thru the board. Almost no dust and it cuts thru is very very easily.  I use a regular drill.   And then Hoffman's staking tool.

OR ................... build the D'Mars ODS which I like better than the TOS 3-12.

With respect, Tubenit


Offline Glennjeff

  • Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Hoffman Amps Forum image
Re: TOS & CF
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2013, 09:19:04 am »
Many thanks for that clarification.

 


Choose a link from the
Hoffman Amplifiers parts catalog
Mobile Device
Catalog Link
Yard Sale
Discontinued
Misc. Hardware
What's New Board Building
 Parts
Amp trim
Handles
Lamps
Diodes
Hoffman Turret
 Boards
Channel
Switching
Resistors Fender Eyelet
 Boards
Screws/Nuts
Washers
Jacks/Plugs
Connectors
Misc Eyelet
Boards
Tools
Capacitors Custom Boards
Tubes
Valves
Pots
Knobs
Fuses/Cords Chassis
Tube
Sockets
Switches Wire
Cable


Handy Links
Tube Amp Library
Tube Amp
Schematics library
Design a custom Eyelet or
Turret Board
DIY Layout Creator
File analyzer program
DIY Layout Creator
File library
Transformer Wiring
Diagrams
Hoffmanamps
Facebook page
Hoffman Amplifiers
Discount Program