How to get the most out of guitar lessons?

[Fresh_Start]

I'm going to my first guitar lesson in 5 years tomorrow.  I only started playing in about 10 years ago at age 40 and have broken both upper arms, at different times, since then.  I noodle along to a variety of tunes and can play a few songs but haven't made any real progress for a long time.  Bottom line is I'm not a good player and want to improve.

One big problem with lessons before was a lack of structure.  Another is my widely varied taste in music.  One week I'd want to learn something off of Layla, another some ZZ top, old Santana... you get the picture.  Plus I know ZERO music theory.

I seem to have pretty good pitch, but I'm afraid I'm rhythmically retarded.  That obviously doesn't help.

Oh, and I've never played in a band and don't expect to.

So anybody out there have some suggestions about how to get the most out of lessons?  Books I should read?  Things I should study?  What to start with?

HELP!

Thanks,

Chip

[OldHouseScott]

William Leavitt's book is good for learning to read, but you will probably want to add other things like tabs for your favorite songs, etc. Tell your teacher what you want to achieve and he'll figure out the best way to get you there. The best way to get the most out of your lessons, though, is to practice a lot on your own in between.

[Ritchie200]

Hey Chip!

Here is what I would do...  Check out more than one teacher.  Like OHS said, go in and explain to each teacher what you told us and what you would like to accomplish.  See what each says.  Find out not only what each has to offer, but how they are going to get you to where you want to be - the plan of action.  See how you click with each instructor.  Remember, just because he/she seems nice, they still might not be able to transfer the information!  Also, you may want more of a taskmaster to counter your A.D.D. musical wanderings and keep you on track!  Find out how accessible they are.  For example, you mentioned that you were rhythm deficient.  If he/she gives you a technique to work on between lessons and it just aint workin', will he/she let you call them for tips or other techniques so you don't waste a week?  FInally as OHS said, practice your assignments so you are ready to move on when you go to the next lesson.  Did I mention PRACTICE YOUR ASSIGNMENTS?   Any teacher will get off on a student that is serious and is working hard - it's a win-win.  A good teacher will bring you along in a concise manner and have a reason for doing the things they are teaching and asking you to do. 

Good luck!
Jim

[G._Hoffman]

Tell your teacher what you want out of the lessons; pay attention to what they are trying to teach you; and most important, PRACTICE.  And by the by, don't mistake practice for play.  You need to approach it as a learning exercise, not a chance to noodle.  When you are learning something new, slow it down - a lot - and practice until you can do it very slowly, then gradually speed it up.  That will get you further faster than anything else. 

Also, don't ignore theory.  Its important, and if anyone ever tells you not to learn theory because you'll get messed up by "the rules," ignore them completely as they have no clue what they are talking about.  Theory is NOT a set of rules for music - there are no rules for music - theory is a language for communicating with other musicians.  Nothing more.  Now, music theory exercises will have rules, for the same reason that English exercises have rules - to teach you a particular concept - but once you are actually making music, the "rules" should go right out the window.


Gabriel

[simonallaway]

but once you are actually making music, the "rules" should go right out the window.

This part is worth stressing. Its the same way that the language and writing skills we learn in school become completely transparent after a certain point; then we are capable of having a conversation with another human being without trying. It's a natural give and take of ideas and attention. Music is the same in that regard. Once you have a certain level of skill it becomes subconcious; you 'just play' and the 'conversation' happens entirely non-verbally. Magical :)

I watched a great documentary about the making-pf Aja, that Steely Dan album. The guitarist Dean Parks said that Beck and Fagen often went over and over a song in rehearsal for hours and hours...pushing it and pushing it, which was irritating to everyone involved. But what they wanted was for the players to fully interalise the part they were playing, so that it went beyond perfection and they could stop thinking about it and play as a cohesive unit.

This struck a note with me because when I practice I absolutely have to go over things ad nauseum so that I don't think about it anymore...so that it becomes a part of me. For instance, take the small intro solo at the start of the version of Crossroads that Cream did live (can't remember which album). It's a simple pentatonic run, not much to it, but to play it as fluidly as Clapton did...to have it fly off the neck as if it were an off-hand gesture took me weeks. I must've played it a thousand times before it 'stuck' and I was happy. I get bored easily so it takes discipline for me to practice long and hard like that.

So yeah...practice ;)

[John]

What helped me to be a better player was to learn the pentatonic scales, along with doing the triplet and quadruplet way of playing them. Also looked up tabs for jazz scales and jazz exercises. Also, after you get a new scale or exercise under your fingers, practice it with a metronome. I'm a long way from where I want to be, but that stuff helped me get better.

If you want a lot of the tabs for scales and exercises that I downloaded, let me know and I'll send 'em along to you. :)

[G._Hoffman]

but once you are actually making music, the "rules" should go right out the window.

This part is worth stressing. Its the same way that the language and writing skills we learn in school become completely transparent after a certain point; then we are capable of having a conversation with another human being without trying. It's a natural give and take of ideas and attention. Music is the same in that regard. Once you have a certain level of skill it becomes subconcious; you 'just play' and the 'conversation' happens entirely non-verbally. Magical :)

Well, yes, but you do need to learn the structures of the language.  You can be sure that the Winston Churchill's, Abraham Lincoln's, or William Jennings Bryan's of the rhetorical world had an extraordinary command of the "rules" of English, even when they would break them.  There are not many great musician's who don't have some command of music theory. 

And from what I've always been given to understand of Steely Dan, the reason they made everyone play everything so many times is that they wanted the musicians to sound bored. 


Gabriel

[zendragon63]

You need to approach it as a learning exercise, not a chance to noodle.  When you are learning something new, slow it down - a lot - and practice until you can do it very slowly, then gradually speed it up.  That will get you further faster than anything else.  

Can't be overstated. And a good teacher will be able to assess your true skill level and feed you the right stuff when you are ready. In 1978, I took my first guitar lesson--I had already been playing for several years and in several bands--and the guitar teacher started me out with "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" because he felt I had no foundation or sense of melody. I was humiliated...and he was right. He got me on track to a sense of melody. Never forgot that.

IMHO noodling--instead of deliberate phrasing--erodes your sense of timing, rthythm and connectedness with the flow and meaning of the music. At some point of mastery, that won't make any difference but that will probably always be beyond my pay grade. The fact that you are not satisfied with your current level of playing and are motivated to improve it is what will get you there. Regards and good luck with your lessons Chip.

dennis

[Fresh_Start]

Guys - this is all great stuff.  I was a little embarrassed to ask the question at first but didn't need to be.

Thanks,

Chip

[RicharD]

I'm entirely the wrong person to answer this question but:

I think it was my 3rd lesson.  My instructor became so annoyed with me that he screamed, "If you're going to play guitar like that, then you might as well tune in an open tuning and use 1 finger!"  He threw me out and refused to teach me after that.  Ironically, 30ish years later I'm still following his advice.   

I guess my point is, you ain't gotta Be Jimmy Page to have fun and be in a band.  The single most important aspect in my opinion is to enjoy yourself.  When you get frustrated, don't beat yourself up.  Play a couple of simple song and come back to the hard stuff later.  I recently started a new band and we're having a blast.  I can't wait for tomorrow's rehearsal.  Ain't none of us great musicians, but we have a great time.

[John]

Buttery, great post. And I think it was Keith Richards that said "All you need is 5 strings, 3 fingers, and 1 ***hole".  Our little backyard band ain't much either (specially with me on guitar) but we sure do enjoy ourselves!

[eleventeen]

I'm going to angle off in a slightly different direction. (Hey guys, been away for a few months)

1: Pay attention to your posture; that you are sitting up straight. This has an influence on your breathing.

2: Be sure that you get a comfortable chair that you can sit in for a while.

3: The angle at which your right( if you are right handed) arm comes over the face of the guitar is kind of different for hollow-body vs electric (slab) guitar. I believe that acoustic guitar "delivers" your arm to the face of the instrument at a superior angle. Playing an acoustic tends to expand your arms away from your sides, and this gets reflected in your left (fingering) hand, symmetrically. I realize that an acoustic guitar is harder to play and harder to play for longer periods of time. If you are going to practice on a solid-body, no problem, but try not to suck your arms into your sides; Consciously try to keep your arms away from your sides.

4: I have always found that hand tension ends up being matched left-hand-to-right-hand. If I am gripping the neck really hard, for example, because the action on my guitar is really high, I find I am clenching my right (picking) hand. If I am gripping the pick really hard, I find I am gripping the neck really hard with the other hand. 

5: Observe the difference in left hand position between a rock player (typically thumb wrapped around the neck) and a classical player (left hand forms a "U" shape, and the thumb is nearly parallel to the fingering fingers. The pad of the thumb rides up and down on the highest point of the arc of the backside of the neck, right down the spine. These are two utterly different approaches to how you hold your left hand on the neck. I prefer the more classical approach. Others may not. I think that wrapping your hand all the way around the neck slows things down; but I have also seen very fast players do the big wrap. It's great for power chords, but IMO it is bad for single string. I think my point is that there should be a "model" or "idealized" position you have in mind for your hands that you try to adhere to; and you don't just let things fall where they may, however they may. Your posture, your arms, the way you hold the neck & the pick....these things are "one way" and you try to maintain that way, consistently.

6: The single most efficient way of practicing I have ever encountered is: Need a clock, a metronome, an amp with headphones with slight reverb. You play ONE SCALE. It can be any scale, but it might as well be a useful one. Play that ONE SCALE in eighth notes against the metronome for 5 minutes, up > down > up > down.

5 minutes. No changing. No riffing. No improvising. No deviation. Don't slide into notes, try to make every note exactly the same. Don't bend notes. Start very slow. During that time, you are watching your fingers and trying to make them like a machine, like the rocker-arms in a pushrod engine, and trying to exert less and less force on the strings, just enough to fret the note, paying attention to how close to the fret you are fretting the note. On your picking hand, you are just watching it, looking for inefficiencies and wasted motions. After 5 minutes your left hand will be absolutely on fire. But in one shot, you get serious metronome practice, scale practice, posture and hand position practice.

Above all: Practice with a metronome or rhythm machine. I can tell a player who has practiced with a metronome vs one who hasn't in about 2 measures.

[Ritchie200]

Ok, I've got a problem with your advice, Eleventeen....  First of all, 1 and 2 have GOT to go and are EXTREMELY dangerous.  

1. There is NO WAY you can do any windmill picking ala Townsend if you are sitting in a chair.

2. There is NO WAY you can accurately squirt lighter fluid on your guitar sitting straight up (you need to look) and you end up setting your crotch on fire sitting in a chair!

Other than that, I think those are good tips.

Jim

[billcreller]

The most important word in all this is PRACTICE........it's sometimes amazing that a difficult run can be made easy if practiced enough.  Sort of falls into place at some point......

[firemedic]

If you are self-motivated enough to get it from a book, I strongly suggest Fretboard Logic. There are 3 volumes- I had been playing 20 years so I thought all I needed was vol. 3. I was wrong. I went back, got 1 & 2 and relearned guitar from the beginning. It really opened up the instrument- plenty of basic theory, chords, scales etc, and now I can walk around the fretboard easily, like I never could before.