Sozo vintage "mustard" caps

[12AX7]

I have used these before in a high gain amp and like them. But i have since questioned whether in a high gain preamp like the one i am building whether the difference they made to my ear came only from having them in the gain stages or whether the ones I put  in the tone stack, presence cap, PI coupler and power tube grids were at all responsible for the smooth richness i got from them. Do you think i'd see the same results just using them in the gain stages only and mallory 150's elsewhere ?

[TubeGeek]

My philosophy on caps is try them all and see how they sound to you.  This is a very subjective topic, everyone's opinion is going to differ.

I bet none of them sound "bad".

[12AX7]

true, but i wasn't asking about how they sound. I have used and like the way they sound. I'm just wondering whether the benefits are from their placement in the gain stages or everywhere else too. I used them in the entire amp, but the feel and tone of the distortion is what they changed considerably and i have come to think probably don't the 2 in the gain stages are responsible for the difference. At 4 to 7 bucks apiece and the fact they take up to 100 hours to break in makes me wonder if i should use mallory everywhere else but the gain stages. Thought maybe someone here might know.

[Ed_Chambley]

I use the vintage mustards often according to what I am building.  I am not certain, but speaking with Lisa at Sozo, she said the vintage's don't take as long of a breakin time.  That being said, I use them in Marshall type builds and some tweeds.  I use them in every position on the board except the .68/2k7 resistor.  I simply like xicon there.  As for the tone stack, I like them in them in the presence in tweed builds.  They seem smoother.  Probably my imagination.  In tweed builds I use solen in the PI and mallorys everywhere else.  In a blackface it is mallorys all the way, but Sozo is sending some of the blues to try in a blackface as soon as they have .022 and .1 ready.  They claim they are just like the blue mallorys.  We will see.  I hope this is the type of feedback you were looking for.

[12AX7]

I replaced most of the sozos last nite in my old amp with mallory one section at a time to see what positions made the most difference. Then i swapped them back one section at a time. I learned a LOT about sozos doing that ! I was able to truly hear exactly how they differ in sound from the mallories and where they made a difference worth using them in. I was really very surprised to find they made a difference to the good in both the tone stack and output tube couplers but the one place where i thought they would do the most good I actually preferred the mallories. That being the gain stages. With all sozos replaced in the tone stack and power tube coupler sections the amp because very thin sounding. I had to keep the treble and presence down a lot to compensate and the tone lost a lot of goodness. I put the sozos back there. But in the gain stages the sozos were too dark and soft sounding. This perfectly describes what i had been feeling about that amp since they went in long ago. I have always felt it was too dark and i had tried to make it more articulate and bright. But noting quite helped and the amp with sozos always seemed not to have enough punch and cut. With sozos everywhere but the gain stages i seem to have a lot of that cut and punch and articulation back but still retain the fatness of the sozos. Definately the right way to go on this amp. There is one issue tho. The mallories give the amp a bit of nastiness in the top end. It;s that very top part of the freq spectrum which has that staticy nastiness happening. once i put the sozos back in the rest of the amp except the gain stages it was minimal, but still irritating. I put the sozos back there and while that was gone i once again felt a soft tone with no cut and punch.

I posted this for 2 reasons. I thought it would be of interest to others contemplating sozos in an similar high gain type amp, and also to ask a question. The question is this...what caps might work for the gain stages to retain the cut and punch of the mallories without that top end fizz? By the way, i don't know whether i can say the difference was dramatic because everyone will take the meaning of dramatic in this context as being over stated. But i feel it was to my ear at least.

[moody]

You have really got to watch ear fatigue, perception over time and context when doing something like this.

A better test would be to either have a side by side comparison that you can switch in and out of quickly or to record (with the exact same positioning, mic setup, recorded guitar, etc.) between each change and then listen to the recordings of the different changes rather than relying on your memory.

Also, it is worth listening to a particular variation that sounds either great or terrible to you 12, 24 hours or a week later and you may find that it sounds completely different.  Perception counts for a lot more than the actual sound of the component.

After that you have context, if you then take the minor changes you have done and put them in the context of a band they will sound completely different again.  That nastiness in the top end when solo may be just what the sound needs in a band context?  (the jcm 900 effect?)

[thermion]

maybe a decade box loaded with a bunch of different brands of cap at the same values could let you jump between them quick enough to avoid ear fatigue?