Issues with a Customer's Amp?

[Platefire]

  This is an amp I built about 3 years ago for a customer(Randy). A 5E3 variation that is used in his recording studio. He don't have any problems with the amp because he always plugs in direct and it works fine for him like that. I don't have this amp in hand, so I'm trying to get a grip on the problem as he describs it. Attached is a picture and schematic. I have sent he an e-mail to specify which channel or switch setting he was using when this problem was encountered.

  The problem occured when a musician brought his pedal board and tried to use it but according to Randy he was encountering too much distortion with his pedals and was wondering if something I could do to it to help. To be honest I don't comprehend the problem because if you set your levels right on your effects it shouldn't be an issue. If your using a amp known for early breakup, you turn your levels down accordingly. According to Randy, this guy was an experianced studio musicin, so he should know all that. If it was just an un-experianced kid I would just blow it off, but according to his report, not so.  

  I thought I would run it by you guys so if you may have encountered anything like this, you might have an answer or suggestions. I think I'm going to have the amp in hand to really find out something. Platefire

[Willabe]

Hi Plate, nice lookin amp.      

See if you can find out what kind and how many pedals this "experienced" studio git-box player plugged in to the front end of the amp.

And like your thinking find out which channel/settings he used and get the amp to see if you can or can't make it act up the same way. If it wont do it for you, then it's on his end.

Very well could be a problem with his pedal board including his patch cords, jacks, plugs, even his guitar and like you said his settings on the pedals.

Could be his gear was fine and unfortunately just happened to develop a problem going to and setting up at Randy's studio. Stranger things have happened.

Also, are any of the pedals modded? If so by who? Are any DIY built? Again by who?  Maybe it is the amp, but......


                           Brad    

[birt]

an amp that works well without stompboxes should also work well with stompboxes. (i said work well, not sound the way you like it)
what you can do is test it with different input levels. do you have a clean boost? something not meant for guitar will work too. just try to gradually boost the signal and find out if the amp does strange things when the input signal goes bigger.

 i think there is a big chance that the guy just didn't like the sound of this amp with his stompboxes. guitar players tend to go back to the presets they know instead of adjusting to different situations or a different amp.
i once had a customer with a 6L6 amp he wanted to try with 6V6. he tried it, really liked it and said he wanted to leave the amp like this. then i said to try 6L6 again but this time i turned the controls. he never heard what the amp can do with settings he never used and fell in love with his own amp all over again. no amps were harmed and we had a nice evening.

if you can't find a problem with the amp i guess you need this guy and his stompboxes to find out what is wrong with the guitar player ;-)

[John]

If I read your post right, I think  this is the problem.

After 3 years of use, there's *one guy* who can't figure out how to adjust his pedal board.

 

[Platefire]

Well I heard people say some amps don't take pedals well. I didn't test it extensively when I built it but did run some pedals through it and everything was fine. If it had a 12AX7 in V1 I would tell him to try a 12AY7 but that's what's in V1.   

[cbass]

I wouldn't consider a 5e3 to be the kind of amp that you throw a pedalboard in front of.

[punkykatt]

  Ditto:    I wouldn't consider a 5e3 to be the kind of amp that you throw a pedalboard in front of

[Willabe]

Well, maybe not for more gain with distortion/boost pedals,  _ but _  time delay Fx like, verb, delay, flanger, chorus or evan wah wah, should be fine?


                                    Brad        

[jim]

You could reduce the gain in the from end ( like in V1) but you change the character of the amp. I think
you need to build this guy another amp.  Jim

[Platefire]

Yeah I agree that the 5E3 is not an amp for drive pedals, it has enough drive on its own. My main effect is delay and with that amp just using your guitar volume knob on a half cranked 5E3 renders all the drive I need.

So I think the consensus here is that reverb/delay/modulation and non-drive pedals shouldn't have any effect on the operation regarding extra un-wanted distortion yet because the 5E3 is a known for early breakup amp drive pedals should be used sparingly. If that don't do it, he will just have to ship the amp to me to check it out. I've got a lot of pedals to tease it with. Platefire 

[Jack1962]

it has been my experience that a 5E3 circuit doesn't do well with overdrive or distortion pedals at all , I have never had any problem with any ther type of effects(stomp box's) .

[Platefire]

I wrote Randy an e-mail and told him basically what was discussed on this thead. I told him if he thinks something is wrong with it, just ship it from where he lives in Tenn and I will check it out. I can't trouble shoot something from long distance. I really don't think anything is wrong with it but I've been wrong before--plenty of times.  Platefire

[birt]

Well I heard people say some amps don't take pedals well. I didn't test it extensively when I built it but did run some pedals through it and everything was fine. If it had a 12AX7 in V1 I would tell him to try a 12AY7 but that's what's in V1.   

that's what i meant with it should work well but might not sound the way you like it. in my opinion "it doesn't take pedals well" means "i don't like the sound of this amp with pedals that boost the signal"

[HotBluePlates]

Well I heard people say some amps don't take pedals well. I didn't test it extensively when I built it but did run some pedals through it and everything was fine.

I agree with Birt that the phrase "doesn't take pedals well" is very undefined, and likely means someone didn't like the end result.

You can use pedals, even distortion pedals, in front of a 5E3. I know I've used Fulltone '69 and Distortion Pro pedals in front of my 5E3. I did that to get mondo-distortion at bedroom volume levels where the 5E3 is still clean, and also because those pedals (a fuzz and a modern-style distortion) offer a sound not typical to the 5E3.

I think it's probable that the sound of those pedals, once the amp is cranked and adding its own layer of distortion may/may not be pleasing to a player who's used to hearing their sound cleanly reproduced by a bigger, cleaner amp.

[stingray_65]

I have to agree with the above few posts.

The 5E3 I built my step son LOVES his digital delay, the Dunlap cry baby sounds awesome too.

He did put a Big Muff type homebrew pedal on it and I didn't care for the sound at all, but I just think the combination wasn't a good mix, not an issue with the amp.

Ray

[jerrydyer]

I would bet 100 bucks that down the road you find out he had a problem with one of his effects.

[Platefire]

There is a 12AY7 in V1.

[stingray_65]

I would want to ask again.

Does the amp sound/act like it should without the pedals?

I mean its kinda like "doc it hurts if I do this.."

Ray

[Platefire]

I thought I had already indicated all that in earlier post. Yes it sounds fine without pedals and I got him to verify over the phone while he looked in the back of the amp that V1=12AY7 and V2=12AX7.
Har!    Can we still say "The customers always right" Lord help me!

[tubeswell]

I've always thought that a 5E3 only takes distortion pedals 'well' when the 5E3 vol is low. Otherwise its like trying to overdrive the input stage of an overdriven amp. A cleaner amp like a 5G9, or cleaner still like a 5F6A, takes fuzz pedals a whole lot better IMO. A 5G9 with a hotcake in front, now that's a rippin' machine. Myself I would prefer to leave teh 5E3 alone, or tend to pair it with a SAR, or reverb pedal (or a delay maybe) or perhaps a subtle treble boost if you were struggling to keep up with a loud band. JM2CW