Is anybody experianced with Killer (African) Honey Bees? or regular honey bees

[Platefire]

Right on the edge of my property here in Louisiana is an old 40's Case Tractor that was here when I moved here. About 6 years ago I discovered that honey bees had occupied one of the rear tires on the old case tractor. I have left them alone all these years because they never bothered me even when I was mowing or doing something close by. they were always swarming especialy in spring and summer and would fly right past me, no problem.  

Just about a month ago I was walking in my yard at least 75 feet from the hive and a single bee started attacking me real aggresively. I couldn't help but wonder if the bee was from the hive or a stray just in the area? Even though he hit me serveral times on my clothing, his stinger never got me. So I didn't think too much about it anymore. Well today I was working around the hive and got attacked two seperate times and stung both times. Only one bee at a time but very aggressively and again I had to squash the bee with my finger to stop him. No doubt these bees were guarding the hive/tire.

My question is, why the change in behavior? I can't help but wonder if maybe these formally non-aggressive bees have been integrated with african bees??? Does anyone have experiance with bee behavior?? Platefire  

[EL34]

I am not a bee expert.
Were you running noisy machine of some sort?
Maybe they did not like the way you smell?

If I remember correctly, the reason a hive becomes an african hive is because the queens hatch one day earlier than euro bees and so they take over the hive.

If you had african bees and were that close to the hive when you were attacked, you probably would have been swarmed

Several years here on my property honey bees have moved into one of several squirrel boxes I have hanging from trees.
One of them is only 10 ft off the ground near my driveway
I can stand right under it and have never been attacked yet
But I am careful to remember about going near it with power tools or noisy things

Here's a video I shot on a day when they looked like they were about to swarm
Honey Bees move into Squirrel box

[Platefire]

Yeah Doug, my bees were swarming the other day just like that and I stood about the same distance away with no problem. The only difference I know as far as odor is I had been mowing and working on bicycles and maybe had a litte oil, grease or gas on me. Wasn't making any noise, just rolled an old junker parts bike back there and got attacked about 15 feet away. Later I was about 50 feet away and got attacked again. Just a single bee.

I read regarding killer bees, if you get attacked by a single be, be sure to get the stinger out of your skin because they target that sent to swarm you in attack mode. I have also read if your in 50 feet of the hive and make loud noises killer bees would attack you. I have banged around there as a test on purpose to see if they are effected with no obvious attacks before. I'm thinking seriouly of taking this hive out at night with some powerful spray. The only problem is the hive is in a tractor tire that makes them mostly protected except for the entrance that is a hole in the time close to the ground. I don't want to have to worry about getting stung everytime I go by there and I have grandchildren that come by here to. Platefire 

[rafe]

call a beekeeper in your area to see if he will take them. Are you sure they are not yellow jackets? If they are "killer Bee's" it is unlikely that only one got you.They are very agressive and if you squish them it locates you to the rest of them, With honey bee's the worse thing you can do is squish them just brush them off and run like hell.......

[John]

The single bee sounds like maybe a yellow jacket. They sometimes (often?) nest in the ground, so you won't know you're close to the nest till it's too late.

If they're the Africanized, I'm with Rafe; very unlikely that only one attacked. Normally it's dozens at least, many times hundreds come after you. That's what makes them dangerous, because you get stung so many times.

I'd hate to see the honey bees killed. We're losing about a third of the colonies every year as it is to that colony collapse disorder.

[Ritchie200]

Hay Plate,

First positively identify.  Then a couple of things - Wear light colored clothing as their natural defensive reaction is against dark predators (bears, skunks). You mentioned that they have been there a few years.  When the nest becomes crowded (maybe the tire is full?), they will become agitated and very defensive - and you may soon see a swarm.  Interesting is that the swarm is very docile, even though it looks like total chaos!  Like Rafe said, call a local beekeeper.  They will gladly take the nest, if accessible, off your hands.  If it's hidden in a tire, maybe you can let them have it!  They will cover the opening and take it away.  Even better, have a local keeper show you how to transfer them to a hive for yourself.  It's a great hobby!

My Grandpa and Dad kept bees.  My Grandpa was immune to stings and never wore gloves or a hood.  My Dad had the normal reaction to stings.  My sister has to carry an epi pen because she is deathly allergic to them.  After one or two stings in the spring, I have no reaction for the rest of the year - like my Grandpa.  I used to help my Dad all the time without protection and my Mom would always be freaking out - because of the scary situation my sister went through.  I have kicked around setting up a couple of hives, but there are always things more pressing...  Nothing better than honey!

Jim

[Platefire]

To answer a few questions:

1-I know yellow jackets and have had them before. They usually build in the ground. These are honey bees!!!

2-The tractor tire they are in is still on the rim on the tractor in the upright position. So they would be almost impossible to access unless there were a way to draw them out of the tire. I will try to take a picture and post it.

3-I have ask around and nobody knows of any bee keepers in our area.

4-One of the bees I killed when being attacked, I have in a medicine bottle.

5-I got stung on the forehead and on the cheak with no bad reaction.

6-I did make an attempt to contact an Killer Bee expert on the internet but so far they haven't responded. I think they are looking for money, not answer questions.

Thanks for your response. I will not destroy them unless neccessary. Platefire  

[rafe]

Call your local college or University and ask for their agriculture dept. and ask to speak to somebody or:
 
LOUSIANA Allen Fabre Adm. Coord.of Nursery & Apiary Prog. LA Dept. of Ag. & Forestry PO Box 1596 Baton Rouge, LA 70821-3596
Phone(225) 342-8054
Fax(225) 925-3760
Emailallen_f@ldaf.state.la.us <mailto:allen_f@ldaf.state.la.us>

NotesAlternate Phone Number: (252) 952-8102

[Platefire]

OK rafe, thanks for the POC info. I will probably sent them an e-mail.

Jim---Thanks! Glad to hear from somebody that has experiance with bees. I personally like regular honey bees. That's why I haven't messed with them. I've enjoyed just watching them.

Yeah I know what your mean about the swarm. I've seen them wen they were all over the outside of the tire and just flying everywhere---and walked within a few feet of that with no problem. That's why the recent attacks has got my attention. My past experiance with a hony bee is at the most they might try to hit you once and go away. These bees that attack was like a mad hornet hitting over and over again. If it wasn't for my clothing, I would have multiple stings.

[gmoon]

Yeah I know what your mean about the swarm. I've seen them wen they were all over the outside of the tire and just flying everywhere---and walked within a few feet of that with no problem. That's why the recent attacks has got my attention. My past experiance with a hony bee is at the most they might try to hit you once and go away. These bees that attack was like a mad hornet hitting over and over again. If it wasn't for my clothing, I would have multiple stings.

I believe honey bees can sting only once--and doing so kills 'em. Even the Africanized ones. So maybe you've been swarmed, but individually they can't hit you multiple times.

We've sure seen a massive die-off of Euro honey bees here in the midwest. We've got some sedum plants that flower late in the year, when not too many other plants are flowering. It's a great time to compare bees, hornets, etc.--they are ALL drawn in at that time. I've been noticing other bees that look like the honey bee, but don't have the same coloring, or the same 'fuzzyness'.

[jojokeo]

You know pretty much all you need to know already but I'll add a few things. I have to respond to "bee calls" fairly frequently by citizens in my profression & area I live/work in. Never try to treat or kill them during the day. You will only aggrevate them and won't get all of them when they are most active. Barricade or delineate the area if necessary and wait until early morning - when they've all returned to the hive/nest from foraging during the day. This is the best time to get them and while they are "asleep". After spraying them all dead, remove them all along with their honey comb as much as possible and then spray the area to rid the phermones that they utilize for tracking. This way they won't return to re-build their nest/hive. In your case get rid of the tire would be best. Africanized honeybees do not produce honey in the amounts that regular honeybees do and the honey in not very good tasting either, therefore it's best to not consider "leaving them be" if you can verify they are africanized. Take your bee to be identified if possible? It is virtually impossible for the average person to identify via the naked eye. Experts will take the wing & measure: if over 9mm it's a EHB (european) and under 9mm is likely AHB (africanized). But, there is another called Egyptian which is also under 9mm but not as common. Also, experts will use DNA testing but pesticides used will interfere with testing results. Normal EHB's do not live in tires on the ground, in valve boxes (also in ground) etc...so that's also something to consider besides their aggressive behavior characteristics. Good luck.

[EL34]

I am getting ready to take this box down

Honey Bees move into Squirrel box

The mount around the tree is about to break because the tree has expanded so much.

I have to re-rig a new mount that will last another 8-10 years

Wish me luck, have not seen any bee activity in the box since last fall
Flying Squirels use it as an over night motel
One stuck his head out the other day to see what all the noise was about.

I can see the combs inside the box through the 3 inch round hole
Hopefully there will still be some honey left in the combs
I understand that the Bees make way more than they need to get through a winter

[Platefire]

Doug

It sounds like your bees has already vacated the premises. I checked mine today and they are alive and well even thougth a little slowed down. We've had some good rain here last day or two that has cooled things off--so the bees are moving kind of slow.

I just sent an e-mail to the address previouly posted to the Louisiana Dept. Of Agiculture and Forestry to see if I get a reply. I've got a bee to send them for examination if they are interested. I would like to find out once and for all if I've got something to worry about. Platefire

[Ritchie200]

Gmoon, yeah, the bees have taken a huge hit.  I remember back when I was  kid the only thing we had to really worry about was wax moths.  Now, varroa mites are literally destroying entire operations.  New generation encapsulated pesticides are also doing their part.  No bees, no fruit or crops.  Kinda scary....

Jim

[stingray_65]

Gmoon, yeah, the bees have taken a huge hit.  I remember back when I was  kid the only thing we had to really worry about was wax moths.  Now, varroa mites are literally destroying entire operations.  New generation encapsulated pesticides are also doing their part.  No bees, no fruit or crops.  Kinda scary....

Jim

I have a good friend in FLA that makes a VERY comfortable living by renting his bee's. His uncle, the guy who now owns my chopper is paid to truck the bee's from FLA to CA 3 times a year and is put up in some swanky digs while the bee's do their thing. I guess it's very fussy buisness transporting them, can only travel at certian times of the day, no jerky movements etc. I can only imagine how many bee's there are in a packed semi trailer!

The money is in renting them, the honey is just a byproduct, go figure!. It's my understanding there would be no California wine country without the imported bee's.

Ray

[EL34]

Wouldn't be much of anything at all without Bees pollinating things
I have noticed a big drop in the number of bee around here the last few years

My property has lots of Sourwood trees
I am guessing honey the bee have become residents in my suirrel boxes several times the last few years because they like the sourwood trees

I always see sourwood honey for sale, so just a guess on my part.

[EL34]

Bees are Bees and they are all needed to pollinate.

There are all kinds of domestic pollinators that can handle the simple task of pollinating a flower and they seem to have taken up the slack in my garden the last couple years. I actually do some hand pollinating on squash plants, it's pretty easy.

Euro honey bees are just icing on the cake, AFAIAC

BTW, just hauled down the big squirrel house shown in the vids above.
The honey combs were all empty, but 10 flying squirrels exited the box when it was being lowered to the ground.
I have a ton of flyers around here
The combs were chewed open and the honey was gone

Seems the flyers on my property have a sweet tooth

Should have taken a video of the flyers but I did not expect 10 of them in that box

[jojokeo]

What mischief are they going to get into w/out their candy store now???

[EL34]

They seem to manage and have a ton-O-Fun every night
Here's some footage I took with a camera in a box a few years ago
They get cranked up every night just when it is getting dark and it's time to go out and party all night

They are very playfull and fun to watch
Flying Squirrels in nesting box.

[Platefire]

Well I got a reply from the Louisiana Dept of Agriculture as follows:

From what you have explained I cannot tell you if the bees are European or European/African. I typed European/African because there are no pure Africanized bees in the US from what I have been told and just from my understanding of bees. Since the bees in the tire have been there for at least six years, the bees have probably swarmed many times and made new queens every time this happened. It is possible that one of these new queens mated with drones (male honey bees) which had some African genes in them, as your area of the state was the first place we found Africanized bees in Louisiana. The way we determine if they are Africanized is by measuring the wings of 10-12 workers and if the average size of those wings is below 9.01mm there is a chance they may have some African genes in them. I then send them to the USDA bee lab and they perform very detailed measurements of different body parts and make the final determination. With all of the above being said, it is also very possible that they are just European bees which are more defensive in nature than the previous bees that occupied the tire. Bees like all animals are subject to their genetic make up and most are different from generation to generation. I have run across some pretty tuff European bees that didn’t like to be bothered and let you know it by chasing and stinging you.

 

In my mind whether they are European or African does not matter. They have become a nuisance and possibly a danger to you and your families well being and need to be removed from the property. I am the biggest proponent of trying to keep bees alive and healthy and if possible relocate the colony, but in my mind the only way to relocate them would to un bolt the wheel from the hub and move the whole tire to a remote location, but what would that solve? It would just be a ticking bomb for someone else to deal with. In my opinion they should be destroyed by a professional. Trying to do it with a can of insecticide will not work. The comb will have to be exposed for treatment or removal and this will take a professional bee keeper/removal specialist. It will not be an easy job.

 

I hope some of the above information gives you some food for thought so you can make an informed decision when you deal with this colony of bees. If you like, you can call me and we can talk about it a little more. LSU has a list of bee keepers on there website that remove bees and I also keep a list. If you choose to go this route I’ll give you the names of the people when you call. For now, steer clear of the bees, but think about doing something with them quickly as you know their numbers will only increase with each passing day going into the summer. Take care.

 

Allen Fabre

Administrative Coordinator, Apiary & Nursery Programs

Louisiana Department of Agriculture & Forestry

Office of Agricultural & Environmental Sciences

Baton Rouge , LA 70821-3596

[rafe]

I watched an electrician replace a bulb in an outdoor ceiling fixture which was surrounded by a nest containing over a hundred visible yellowjackets, no telling how many more were out of view.....
he did it very calmly and slowly, the whole time they were flying in and out....One of the most astonishing events i ever witnessed. he was on a six foot ladder and never got stung.....I've always been afraid of yellow jackets and personally know how viscious they can be.....I am a firm believer in if you don't mess with them they won't mess with you ever since that time.....I had a lot of honey bees last year and hope for more this year, may even try to raise a hive at some point.......If you do decide to kill them off....heed his advice

[EL34]

The house is back up and all cleaned out

I have several movies on Youtube and the one above.
Just right click on the one above and go to youtube to see more

I have another one box at eye level that I can put a camera in.
I have captured movies up to 7 flyers in that box several years ago

The flyers come down out of the leaf nest in the fall and stay in my boxes all winter
When the leaves come out in the spring they go back up into the trees and build nest

[jojokeo]

Judging by the squirrels' behavior, you've made them a love shack! No wonder they're going to need to be building nests.

[Platefire]

I have a ton of squirrels around my place but no flying. I'm not sure I've ever seen one---not sure the exist in North Louisiana?? Got mean bees!  Platefire

[EL34]

I have heard estimates that there are more flyers than gray squirrels
You just never see them cause they are nocturnal

[Platefire]

"nocturnal"----I had to look that one up! Har  

My only experiance with a suspected flying squirrel was years ago when my cat mauled a baby squirrel
and I took it away from the cat and it was limp like it was dead but still breathing. I took it in the house to get it away from the cat. Guess what! It revived in the house and started running all over the place. I had a dickens of a time catching it. As I recall it had extra folds of skin between its front and hind legs. I turned him loose and never saw him again. Platefire

[jojokeo]

I have heard estimates that there are more flyers than gray squirrels
You just never see them cause they are nocturnal

Now you only need to train them - http://youtu.be/DsuVLsDyln4

[bigsbybender]

There are no flying squirrels here... the only time I've seen them was when I was living in the Kansai region of Japan. They were quite active during the day, but were certainly not the same species as the ones in the video.



j.

[cbass]

Comment on ag and bees.

Please remember that honey bees and domesticated cats are not native to the Americas.  

Niether is the white man.