Silver Champ parts to Princeton.

[iambluesman]

I have been buying and selling (lately mostly selling) amps for years. I currently have a 63 Deluxe, love the tone of the aa763 circuit but the 22 watts is too much for my current application. Going to hang on to it for awhile but I need an amp that I can crank a bit more. Rather than build a new amp, I have some parts that might do the trick but would like some expert advice so I came here.

I have an old, beat up silver faced champ in my garage with no speaker, torn up grill, and roached power transformer. Rather than putting money into it to restore to original, I thought this would be a good candidate for a little experimenting.

My questions are ... 1) can I put an O/T and P/T from a 12 watt Princeton with a 10" speaker in it and .... 2) would I need to perform any mods to the board in the way of caps/resistors/etc. ? 

All comments are most appreciated. THanks
   

[TIMBO]

Hi iam, You could do both with little money. Restoring/rebuilding amps is a great way to learn about amps, which will no doubt make you want to do more and i sure if the main parts ( PT, OT and speaker )are in fair order it could be a cheap fixup. If you can find schematics (in Dougs schematic library) for the two amps you can compare circuit and then see if there needs to be changes to the circuit board, also there is plenty of guys here that will point you in the right direction 

As for the 63 Deluxe you could consider a PPIMV or adding a VVR. These mods are fairly cheap and easy to do and either will give you the tone and crankness at bedroom volume.More info in the schematics section.Good luck.

[worth]

I would keep the Champ circuit, but replace the PT with maybe a Princeton upgrade frpm Allen Amps. Same with the OT.... Allen Amps SE OT , or a Hammond 125ESE. Next , I would rewire the rectifier socket for another output tube to be run in parallel with the existing output tube, ( I would use 2x 6L6 instead of 6V6 ) and install diodes for a SS rectifier. Replace all the electrolyic caps , ( I removed the cap can , and installed the main filter caps inside the chassis ).I also used a pi filter , ( I used  a choke instead of a resistor ) before the B+ to get rid of the usual SE hum. You might consider using this as a head.. the 10" speaker probably won't fit. I've got this exact same set-up in a Silverface Vibro-Champ running into a 1-12" cabinet... I love it. Sustain , warmth, and perfect volume level for a small room.  By the way ,all this work is easier than it sounds.

[stingray_65]

Personally?

I'd rebuild the silver champ.

a couple of watts won't be any louder, If that is necessary then a more efficient speaker is in order, not more wattage.

That silver champ can be modded in so many ways to get just that right sound after it is up and running at the cost of a few caps resistors or pots.

A 10" can be a very punchy speaker and 12 watts or so can be delivered from a 6V6 gt fed 400V.

A simple switching mod can go from your 5Y3 recto which has a 50V loss to a solid state recto with out those losses. the higher voltages will give a nice bit of headroom to boot.

You can do tone stack mods, maybe add a 1 tube reverb if you say used a vibrochamp tranny or add the vibrochamp trem, an extra gain stage for more of a Marshall tone or maybe the AC 30 top boost mod.

It's a simple circuit that begs to be toyed with.

Look to Webers for a 10" that would be a great match to the circuit you decide to build.

and ditch those fender style fiber boards and go with some turrets, easier ti mod around in my opinion.

LOL you may even fall in love with that old silverfaced champ sound, many guys do.

Ray

[stingray_65]

Another option you may have is to sell the champ in parts to get seed money to build an amp you really desire.

[balcorn80]

My questions are ... 1) can I put an O/T and P/T from a 12 watt Princeton with a 10" speaker in it and .... 2) would I need to perform any mods to the board in the way of caps/resistors/etc. ? 

All comments are most appreciated. THanks
   

It can be done. It would require a whole new board. I liked the idea of getting bigger iron and running 2 paralleled 6v6's with a solid state rectifier. That way you can reuse most(if not all) of the current circuit board.

[jjasilli]

Hold on! 

*  SF Champs & Princetons use the same stock PT part# 125P1A
*  Champs need an SE OT; not P-P like a Princeton
*  Princetons are much louder than Champs  -- but I doubt there's room on the Champ Chassis for 2 power tubes.  UNLESS you convert to SS rectification, and convert the recto tube socket to another power tube; but then you need a PI; OR use 2X power tubes SE in parallel.  My suggestion -- simply rebuild the Champ.
*  Yes you can fit a 10" speaker in the Champ cab (and I recommend it).  I enlarged the existing hole over to one side with a saber saw (and broke 2 blades on those darn hidden monster staples which hold the baffle board to the combo walls!) 

I rebuilt both a SF Champ & and SF Princeton.  My Champ project and Schematic are posted elsewhere on the Forum.  Post if you can't find them.

[sluckey]

Champs need an SE OT; not P-P like a Princeton

All of the old 5xxx Princetons were SE.

[jjasilli]

Champs need an SE OT; not P-P like a Princeton

All of the old 5xxx Princetons were SE.

Yes, but iambluesman says: My questions are ... 1) can I put an O/T and P/T from a 12 watt Princeton. Hence, it appears that his Princeton is a P-P model.

[sluckey]

Oops! I missed that little detail.