Plexi crunch at lower volumes?

[DSL]

Hello guys. I'm brand new here. I'm a basement hack rhythm player with a Gretsch Jet and Marshall DSL-100. I'm here, hoping to get some advice regarding either attenuators, a completely different boutique amp (Fargen Mini Plex) or my own kit — with the help of friend who's an electrical engineer.

My DSL is too loud. I purchased it because I always wanted to play along to albums, CD's in my basement. I can get a very good tone out of this amp with my guitar and pickup, the only problem is it's WAY too loud to play comfortably. I live in a single house, but I'm afraid I might go deaf from playing this amp.

Question 1: Are there single, or dual EL-34 designs available here, based on a Plexi circuit, that incorporate London Power Scaling, or some form of power scaling? I know the Fargen Amps are available, but they're out of my price range - for now.

What I notice from smaller wattage amps - and I've played a few them, the low end isn't nearly as firm, or biting, edgy as a higher wattage Marshall design. I'm not technically proficient, but have access to someone who can read, mod, design circuits - but who's not an amp builder.

Question 2: If I bought an Aracom attenuator http://www.aracom-amps.com/products/prx150-pro-vs-dag.html, would the natural tone of my amp be better than the tone produce by a single ended, single or dual EL-34 design with power scaling?

It's partly a cost concern, but more than anything, I don't want to have to play that loud to get those tones. I'm not looking for Van Halen hi-gain plexi tones. I'm looking for classic AC/DC tones. I understand the watts VS volume relationship, that to have half the volume of a 100 watt, I'd need a 10 watt amp. I'm not expecting roaring plexi tones at a whisper, but it would be very nice, and practical, to have classic rock overdrive tones low enough, that I could hear a CD through stereo speakers - AND play along with it. I've heard solid state amps that do amp modelling, and quite frankly, they suck.

Question 3: Would it be possible to mod my DSL and have a power scaling function put into the circuit? — Am I asking for too much? Thanks.

[TubeGeek]

You can power scale the dsl-100.  I believe it's possible.  I myself have never done it to that amp though, so I have no direct experience to offer.  I have worked on these amps and it's a rats nest of wiring, circuit boards, connectors etc.  If someone were to ask me to do the job, I would kindly decline.

If you feel like building something, maybe consider the Marshall 20 Watter.  It's a mini-plexi type of thing.

Here is one example:  http://ceriatone.com/images/layoutPic/marshallLayout/20WCeriatoneLayout.jpg

[DSL]

Thanks tubegeek. I know about Ceriatone, a lot of people like those kits. My one concern is EL84's VS EL-34's. There's a distinctive mid-range "GOWNK" sound produced by EL-34 in a Marshall circuit that I don't think I could get with the EL-84 design. I think that Ceriatone 20 Lead & Bass sounds ok from this clip: Avatar 18 Watt Amp, but again it's running EL-84's and that tone is thinner sounding than an EL-34 design.

But, I like the idea of a 20 watt, with power scaling. Or, I simply invest in a really good attenuator, and keep my DSL and push it harder.

[Tone Junkie]

Then build a 6v6 version bluesbear here has done one sounds real nice.
Thanks Bill

[DSL]

Tone Junkie, you're saying a 6V6 version of an 18 watt? Where can I hear this amp?

Thanks

[Davidg]

Perhaps another cheaper alternative would be to get another 1-12" cab with a very low wattage speaker to move a bit more a lower volumes.I have been on a similar quest myself and found that unless u are driving the speakers it really doeant have any "balls" too it. You dont "feel" the amp and especially in an open back combo you have to crank it to where you are pushing the speakers and moving some air get any bottom at all. And for just home practice it really doesnt have to be a really good speaker or cab-just something to move some air. Its also why it is not good to have a half stack for a bedroom amp, by the time u start to drive the spks a little you are also jarring the windows.

[tubenit]

You could do this.  

Cathode biased 6V6 with Plexi-ish topology and a VVR.  
 
Paralleled V1 with a spdt switch.  (paralleled triodes give 30% more gain and no increase in noise)

Paralleled resistors and caps on V1-3 will allow different gain/tone. 

The spdt on the NFB allows more volume/grit or cleaner tone with NFB.


Lots of tonal options and will give you a decent crunch and overdrive.

IF you prefer EL34 tubes,  I would use individual 270R/10w cathode resistors for each EL34 such as on the Matchless amps.  You could also consider using a 5V4 rectifier for around 360v on the EL34 plates.
http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/matchless/matchless_chieftan.pdf

with respect, Tubenit

[tubenit]

OR .............................

You could use 6BM8 pentodes.  You could use the 6BM8 triodes for the LTPI.  However, I prefer to use 12A_7 tubes there so I can use a 12AT7 or 12AV7 LTPI tube.

This would be around 7-9 watts which I will assure you is still fairly LOUD.  The PPIVM  (post phase invertor master volume) would be used instead of the VVR on the other idea.

This should be a pretty easy build to do. 

An example of what the 6BM8 tubes sound like is this soundclip:
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=7988948&q=hi&newref=1

With respect, Tubenit

[DSL]

David, I totally get you. I'm running a MESA closed back with 2 V30's — a bit bright and too many upper trebles, not enough warmth and tightness in the mid and lower mids for me.

I should get a single 50 watt, or 2 X 25 watt Greenbacks, and just not run the amp too loud. But, I keep going back to this idea: http://www.fargenamps.com/mini-plex-mkii
Maybe this is the way to go, but I've never heard on in person.

OR: An Aracom Attenuator and a Few Vintage Marshalls P3 SoloDallas is using an Aracom through a Marshall 2204 50 watt JCM 800, with a master volume.
THAT is the tone I want, and he's playing it at shouting, loud talking levels.

There's no way to compare the Fargen Mini Plex MK2 tone to the tone of the JCM 800 with the Aracom. And the video demos I see of the Fargen suck in comparison to SoloDallas' videos. His are properly mic'd, in the proper room, and he doesn't just wank. He plays chords soft, medium, hard etc, so you can get a sense of the dymanics of the amp.

[TubeGeek]

Another option to look at:  http://mhuss.com/Plexi6V6/index.html

[Davidg]

Sorry DSL I didnt realize u were running a cabinet.I took it that u were wanting an out without having to build an amp. If u really WANT to build one than I say go for it cause if u are very picky about your tone at all u will not ever be totally happy with the DSL-not knocking them but they are what they are- a typical production amp that gives u moderate control over your tone. Asfor what to build that is for your ears to decide but you already have several good options and I would also check out the 18 watt stout as I was very impressed with it.

[Ed_Chambley]

Look at this very long post.
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=13598.msg127311#msg127311

I just completed this amp and while it is not 10 watts, it is just under 30 with EL-34,s.  This has what you are looking for, but bear in mind volume and watts have little to do with each other.  I had lots of help, but I have a cothode bias El-34 growl with a Marshall 18 watt front.  PT must be under 600 vac.  It does VH very well and AC/DC is really different.  There are 2 brothers playing and neither are pushing El-34's.  While getting AC/DC tones are not hard a lot of it comes from SPL. The guys here build some very nice small watt amps I have built a couple.  When it comes to coping Van Halen, Eddie never hesitated to use processors.  If I remember Lexicon is one of his preferences.