My new amp...let's wreck it

[SILVERGUN]

OK...the holidays are over, so it's back on
Most of the changes I made in the past week were a result of comparing my schematic to others,,,and reading, including some of Merlin's book
The amp definitely sounds better now than it did before this round of tweaking,,,so I feel really good about all of the changes made

I figured I would start with an updated current schematic, and a few explanations:
(items in RED are adjusted since last schematic)

-Added 500p shunt cap on V1 socket from input grid stopper to ground to try to help with "fret squeal" ("seemed" to help)
-Returned treble cap back to stock 500p value, and definitely heard a big difference (brought back highs, and the enhanced harmonics really opened the entire sound back up)
-Increased grid stopper value to150K and added a paralleled 500p cap to the grid V1b (2nd stage)
-Increased cathode resistor on 12AU7 triode to 3.9K
-Added a 68K grid stopper to V2a (third stage)
-Eliminated boost limiting resistor on V2a (really brought in some serious OD,,,,so I dialed the the preceeding grid leak (temp pot) down to 250K, and WOW,,,nice give and take moment there.........went from lots 'o mud to scorching / defined lead tone
-Played around with resistor values in the PI and wound up with what sounds to me as the best combination
-Lowered the value of PI coupling cap down to .022 at first (that was too far for my taste), and settled on .047 (nice and punchy, without being too "squalky"
-Removed the 2- 51K resistors that I had originally put into the wipers of the dual PPIMV pot, because I think the amp sounds better at a lower setting on the PPIMV witout them (didn't know why they were there in the first place,,,on the schematic from jojo)

This amp is a serious ONE CHANNEL lead monster, and I feel like I am very close to the sound I had set out to find when I began tweaking!
I can't thank the guys on here enough for the confidence to do what I did!

There are a few things left to do including adding a lead boost switch which will interrupt the 3rd stage 1uf bypass cap when disengaged
AND, re-drawing the layout to fit all of the added components which are still hovering above the board.

[SILVERGUN]

I was back at it again last night, and it's cool to not have to rush through this process....
I have thought that the amp sounds great, but I have the same illness as most of you, and great just isn't great enough

I was unhappy with the idea of a shared tube for V1 because I don't want to have to be stuck with a 12DW7 in order to get my AX7 + AU7 as V1a and V1b.......so I took out the drill and added another preamp tube socket so that I could have a separate 12AX7 tube as my first stage.

I also chose to parallel the triodes in that new tube and put a high quality TAD tube in that spot,,,,, and followed some of my readings to split the plate load and cathode resistor values in half,,,,,with the intention  of getting more gain, and lower noise in that input stage........
I also thought it would be a good idea to lower the impedance feeding the tone stack.....

The result was a much improved defined clarity, that had slowly disappeared during some of the other mods that I've done.....
And the coolest part for me was that it increased the "sustained harmonic feedback" effect that I've tried to preserve throughout this process....I can now get it at a much lower setting on the volume knob of my guitar (it will hold for as long as I can hold it

So, of course, I had to take it too far, and because I now have an unused 12AU7 triode in V2, I decided to parallel those 2 trodes as well,,,and the result was an incredibly puncy gain,,,but just too over the top for me,,,so I disconnected the paralled jumper wires for that tube, and it was better that way for me...
This amp wants to punch you in the face and take your lunch money

Here's how I left the amp sitting for now  .......all new adjustments are in BLUE

[jojokeo]

Are you leaving the 12DW7 in V2's socket or did you use a regular 12au7 when you paralleled them??? Did you try any other tubes in the socket when wired that way also???

[SILVERGUN]

Are you leaving the 12DW7 in V2's socket or did you use a regular 12au7 when you paralleled them??? Did you try any other tubes in the socket when wired that way also???

I got rid of the DW7 and put in a new JJ AU7,,,didn't have time to try anything else, but did play it a awhile as-is, and it's getting closer...

I had one of those moments where it sounds almost perfect,,,and then you add something,,,and it's a mistake,,,so you have to back up and find what you just had  ....(when I paralled the AU7 triodes, it took away some of the harmonic feedback thing and introduced some high pitched bad feedback, and just made it way to front end heavy)

I'm not done, but I'm also not sure what my next step will be,,,,,,maybe something to tame the 3rd stage a bit ?
I'm sure I'm gonna mess with the plate and cathode resistors on that input AX7, maybe reduce the gain a little ?
And go back and take a closer look at the grid stopper feeding that AU7 ? ( I think I settled quick there)
I'd also like to try and smooth out the highs in general,,,they are a little brutal and sharp 

BUT, so far, I haven't felt like turning back around and I really like where it's heading

[tubenit]

I'd also like to try and smooth out the highs in general,,,they are a little brutal and sharp 

I'd try the "enhance" cap (again) on the entrance plate resistor to the LTPI.  Maybe 82p - 120p?  All the enhance cap did on my amps is increase harmonics and blooming.  No negative impact if the value was right. I could not even tell any loss of highs ........ just smoother to my ears.   

And then maybe some of the smoothing caps like are using on the D-style amps from plate to cathode.  Maybe try 150p - 390p. If you have a 220p, maybe start with that. 

Remember these can just be clipped in for the experiment.

With respect, Tubenit

[SILVERGUN]

Gotcha  ,,,thanks again T and very sorry to make you repeat yourself...

Earlier in this process I definitely leaned more towards changes that had a greater immediate  impact  , and glossed over some of your suggestions for smoothing because I couldn't hear a huge difference by implementing them.......

Now I feel like I'm at a point where I've actually caught up to where you wanted me to be, (through trial and error) and I'll have to listen harder to fine tune the end result....

Every time I get close to settling,,,,I read something else that brings me back, and reminds me how much fun this can be...
I'm gonna double back over the thread and try some things I may have missed, and report back soon.......

I realize that I still owe you guys a soundclip,,,,,and that you really can't help me fix my sound, if you can't hear it

[jojokeo]

Some may not like this but another "option" is to go the "good Dr." route and try clipping in a conjunctive filter? His famous little Camen Ghia & possibly others (don't know about all?) uses this to tame and linear-ize his otherwise bright & harsh designs. The technique is you leave it bright & harsh on purpose without any sort of smoothing caps keeping all the naturally occuring gain and sharpness and let this (conj. filter) even & smooth things out... many many people like the end result of his amps as you know. I'll keep it short for now on this subject.

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks Jojo, I found some good reading here: http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7620.0

I'm gonna go back through all coupling cap values, while I'm trying T's smoothing cap suggestion...

Love the new avatar, by the way 

[jojokeo]

That's a fine way to go however it can & usually takes days going through the gammut of various possiblities and combinations to find your happy place. The conj. filter is quicker before you go the other route is all. I should re-read some of this when I have more time, I'm a little lost with where you're trying to go but I thought you were on just the bright side or is it brittle or rhaspy or gritty?

[SILVERGUN]

That's a fine way to go however it can & usually takes days going through the gammut of various possiblities and combinations to find your happy place. The conj. filter is quicker before you go the other route is all. I should re-read some of this when I have more time, I'm a little lost with where you're trying to go but I thought you were on just the bright side or is it brittle or rhaspy or gritty?

It's definitely a juggling exercise...
The highs effect the lows, and I love the lows to jump out and punch you, but with that has come some bright, gritty, brittle top end
I was hoping to smooth the highs, without losing them,,,if that makes sense....

I had time to try a smoothing cap, from plate to cathode on the third stage, and I started with 250p (heard a slight difference for the better)
jumped up to 500p (still only a slight difference, to my ears),,,so like i do,,,I took it to the extreme, and put in a .002uf (so I could really hear a difference,,and I did).....ran out of time,,,but there's lots of room to work there + trying it on other stages....

I'll definitely try the conjunctive filter,,,BUT, why did you word it as "some may not like this" ?

I'm also not worried about finishing any time soon....it's more fun for me to go down this path slowly, and make sure I touch all of the bases....when I get to the end I want to know that I didn't settle because I ran out of time.......it's great to not be in buisness, because I'm the only customer I need to impress

ALSO, there's one other thing that I want to clear up (the way I worded something).....My true intention for paralleling the first stage was to lower the impedance feeding the tone stack.....I knew the increase in gain would be a by-product,,,and i'm going to go back and lower that, because it "feels" like i'm hitting the front end too hard again (but I do like the clarity that came back by paralleling those triodes)
I had to separate those first 2 stages and get rid of the 12DW7, because I wanted more options in tube selection, and didn't want to be chained to a "specialty" tube.

[SILVERGUN]

As a result of joining in on another thread about a balance control in a Hiwatt   http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=15080.0
I decided to try to implement this mod in my circuit....
At first glance it appeared pretty simple, so I dove right in,,,and i'm sure glad that I had recently added that tube socket, because it would have had to have been done to accomplish what I was trying...
To this point this has been a single channel high OD build, and I have been trying to figure out where or how I was going to implement a "solo boost".....or actually just a way to get less drive for rhythms, and then switch to full "Turbo" for leads.......

So this mod appealed to me for a couple reasons:
-I wanted to see how the amp would change if I changed the location of the tonestack
-I wanted to see if it would give me better control over the front end gain i've been back and forth about
-I wanted to leave no stone unturned in my quest for super-cool circuit nirvana

I didn't have much time to stay and play, but just figure I should update the schematic, because it has brought about some big changes
I was most surprised by the fact that it really didn't change the sound of the amp all that much, but did give me a better control over how much gain was coming off the front end....I like the idea and will continue to experiment in the coming week......
the input volume and balance controls appear to work fine, but the switch has no effect, and i'm working to resolve whether I may have miswired it  
Any help would be greatly appreciated..

[worth]

http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/K-SNUB2
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Here's a link to conjunctive filter kits at AES.

[jojokeo]

CG, I only see that it appears the two pots are wired in reverse, everything else appears fine. It still should work. The stack being placed or used differently should definitely make a change & difference.

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks for looking jojo....
I'll take the microscope to the whole operation on Mon......I don't think I miswired anything,,,,but you just never know

It sounded a little different with the tonstack moved, but not as much as I expected...
The basic"character" of the amp is still there, and I'm thrilled with that!

I've made so many changes to the original board,,,that some stuff is just more difficult to trace out than it has to be,,,,so i'll go at it with a fresh set of eyes  
This was a BIG jump, and i'm glad I did it because it brings a whole new level of "creativity" into play.....

Just for the record....I had tried some smoothing caps and an enhance cap before the mod, but never settled on anything,,,so i'll go back in once I get this working and tweak away..........I'm having fun with it and learning as I go  

EDIT: Found the problem.....1K resistor coming off ground switch, where it should've been 1M
Edited pic to reflect corrected pot wiring as well...thanks jojo!!

[jojokeo]

The schem looks fine, I was talking about the layout drawing (see attachment) is all. If there's a lot of stages in the preamp then you'll not see/feel/hear as much difference w/ the placement as you would w/ only a few stages...seems "normal" to notice this.

[SILVERGUN]

Well,,, I got a little frustrated last week with swapping components,,,and how sloppy my board has gotten,,,,so I decided to lace up a "prototyping board" for the cathode leads that I wired in on Saturday..
I mounted a small section of board to the top side of my chassis, with some of the turrets laced together to give me access to each component in it's own individual path....(initially created a wicked ground loop, but figured it out quick and got on with it)
I ran all 4 stages cathode wires to the separated paths and also used small trim pots for the last 2 stages to try to "dial in" the correct level of gain at each stage.....(if I had more trim pots, I would have used them for all 4 stages)
My intent is to use this board as a "prototyping" board during the "design" stage, before making a final board layout,,,,and then being able to remove this and take it to my next project,,,,(at which time I will put trim pots in all 4 locations)
I also removed the "balance mod", in an attempt to simplify and focus on getting the base sound zero'd in...
I went back and put the paralled connections back on V1 (because that just sounds the best to me) and wound up with a 68K plate and 680R cathode resistor values (taken from some things I had read about an input stage on a popular boutique amp,,,thanks again Jojo)....basically-reduced values help to lower the noise floor in that 1st stage
I took the 12AU7 out of V2, and put back a AX7 with a 150K plate and 3.9K cath. with 2.2uf bypass cap (now 1 unused triode,,,,hmmmm?)
I also completely removed the tonestack which obviously helped "push" the signal along!
I was able to dial in a great combination of values at all stages, and now feel closer than ever to having this amp completed  
I changed the value of the 3rd stage cath. resistor to 3.9K (from 10K), and raised the 4th stage value from 33K to 47K
I removed the bypass cap from the 3rd stage, which was a HUGE source of noise,,,and still have more than enough overall OD to keep me happy  
I've also continued to experiment with plate resistor values on the output tubes (with 470R providing a more open sound to my ears, compared to stock 1K), and conjuntive filter values (with no filter still being my favorite) (I'm not done)
I'll stop back and post the schematic when I get it drawn up.....to my ears, this is the most professional sounding setup I've tried so far, with much less noise, and a much purer sounding tone----less buzzsaw  

The main thing I have continued to focus on is the effect of ultimate sustain that blooms into harmonic feedback, and have done everything in my power to enhance that during this process.....if something takes away from that quality---it gets removed,,,and if something enhances it, it gets pushed to the highest possible degree to see how far I can take it, without creating excessive noise................that is one big 'ole tug-o-war!

**EDITED- added pic of head cabinet I built with my new dovetail capabilities 

[TIMBO]

Nice work SG, I think you have well and truely hit the nail on the head when it comes to tweaking these amps. I get really lost when you finish a build and it persents a problem i find it a nightmare to fix, so to get the base amp up and running THEN start adding the extra's.

I'm about half way through building the JP Hiwatt (with 6V6s) and NO extra's (fx loop,reverb, ppimv......) but i am keen to see what the "balance" does. Thanks

[jojokeo]

"so I decided to lace up a 'prototyping board'"
easier, safer, & more organized 

"(now 1 unused triode,,,,hmmmm?)"
  don't let it bug you at this point

"removed the bypass cap from the 3rd stage, which was a HUGE source of noise"
yes, further down the line can be problematic (& parasitic/oscillation trouble)

"plate resistor values on the output tubes (with 470R providing a more open sound to my ears, compared to stock 1K), "
??? are you sure you're not talking about the PI tail resistor(s)? The lower value gives more drive w/ a bit more clean response in the PA, (which I like)

*are we ever going to hear this thing?  (it could be helpful in helping w/ suggestions or opinions, and so we could follow what you're describing)

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks TIMBO,,I did like the balance and may go back to it,,just wanted to keep the signal pure at this point

"plate resistor values on the output tubes (with 470R providing a more open sound to my ears, compared to stock 1K), "
??? are you sure you're not talking about the PI tail resistor(s)?

OH----I MEANT SCREEN RESISTORS ON EL34s......I thought I would like the more compressed sound of raising the value,,,BUT I actually liked it the other way and wound up dropping the value to 470R from 1K......re-biased and liked it
Sorry about that,,,sometimes I trip over all of this "new" terminology

*are we ever going to hear this thing?  

YES, it was just way too crazy noisy before now and was a little embarrassing (I was ignoring the noise to get to the end result)

[SILVERGUN]

OK,
So in an attempt to be a man of my word, I have included a link to a quick sound clip sample of this amp in it's current state...
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=12375190&q=hi&newref=1
It's a terrible recording, and it contains the scratchy noise that I have not been able to get rid of in my crappy little recording setup....I obviously didn't bother tuning the Warmoth Partsocaster, played through the JB bridge pickup, straight in, and out through a Celestion G12H-30

I don't think the amp sounds this bad in person,,,,,but I also don't believe that I look as old in person as I do in pictures  
Actually I'm sure it doesn't sound this bad in person,,,and has a much more open quality than this clip would dictate....this clip makes the amp sound like there is a cardboard box over it  

I only promised that I would post a clip,,,,not a good one  
So this hereby fulfills my commitment to post a clip before moving on to another project,,,,and I will be temporarily answering another calling, by going in the complete opposite direction in search of a great clean sound.

Here is the updated preamp schematic, as the amp sits,,,not complete, but there is a lot left to do and try and I will be back shortly

[Ed_Chambley]

You covered Neal and Jimmy.  Sounds good, but had to turn up the speakers.  Nice sounding amp.

[tubenit]

I only promised that I would post a clip

Nice clip!  Very positively impressed with that & I liked it. It had some pretty cool harmonics in the tone and true ROCK OUT tone to it. Had a huge tone to it.

THANKS for sharing it and your innovative approach!

 

With respect, Tubenit

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks guys...
It is a little nerve-wracking when you press record,,,and you wind up with that
I had a hard time getting past the crackling, and am still not sure what was/is causing it (it's not coming out of the amp)

But it's an OK example of the gain and power of this amp, and hopefully can give someone an idea of what this might sound like if you build it...

I'll work on my recording technique (and playing technique---it's amazing how fast you get rusty  ),,,and try to come up with some clips that actually sound like they weren't recorded by a 5 year old............eventually 

Sounds good, but had to turn up the speakers.

Yeah me too....something happened when I converted it to MP3 
I'll stick to building amps and leave the recording up to the pros!

Thanks again for the kind words 

[TIMBO]

Nice work SG 

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks Timbo ....

I started thinking about the sound here and realized that I forgot that the amp still has no tone stack
So if it sounds a little thick,,,that's partially why 

The more I listen to that clip, the more I want to re-do it ......I'd like to capture the way the amp actually sounds when your sitting next it,,,,,but I just don't have that resource

[tubenit]

OK,  here is a SCH editable schematic and layout for your amp.  

Download ExpressSCH and then you can just click on a component and change component value.  It is a VERY intuitive easy to use program. I can't begin to tell you how useful drawing schematics has been to me in understanding amp topology and design.

On the layout board,  ........  obviously we can edit this and move things around.  I left room on the far right of the layout board to add a tone stack IF you want to. We can also move the V1-3/8 cathode components to the far right side of the board.  We can also move the presence pot to the far end on the left as is normally done.

I wasn't sure what all you had after the LTPI, so I referenced a previous schematic that you posted that showed a PPIMV. I have never drawn up a PPIMV with fixed bias before.

I renamed your amp the "SiG 001" but change that to whatever you want.

Looking forward to whatever you finally come up with.

With respect, Tubenit

[tubenit]

SilverGun,

I don't know if you have already tried a 5E3 tone stack with your amp or not?  It would be a very easy experiment to try out.  The 5E3 tone stack has very low insertion loss.  You could also lower the 330k to 220k into the next gain stage grid to compensate.

Just an idea, ........... not pushing any agendas.

with respect, Tubenit

[SILVERGUN]

I don't know if you have already tried a 5E3 tone stack with your amp or not?  It would be a very easy experiment to try out.  The 5E3 tone stack has very low insertion loss.

No I had not,,,,,,but I like the looks of it

Thanks so much for all of your work, and I hope this amp will be good for someone else somewhere....

As soon as I get back to it, I'll continue to update the sch file, and hopefully post some better recordings....I also want to add a d'lator and mess with effects,,,so IT AINT OVER 

Nice work T 

[jojokeo]

...and eight months later, let there be SOUND!!! But what is it? It appears to be some kind of time warp from back in the day coming from my parents' old Marantz stereo system that used to play those big black vinyl records? The music seems to be from that era too?! Holy retro Batman! SG no wonder it took you so long, you didn't have to recreate an actual LP record recording for us. A simple mp3 would've been fine and much easier, but many thanks! That was priceless and definitely worth the wait!
Okay, all kidding aside (which you deserve btw) - the amp sounds very good and what I had in mind (less the snap crackle and pops). But I think some time ago I began to anticipate more of the what and how you would play rather than actually how the amp would sound after "the great build-up". And I must say the Zep was a bit of surprise but definitely not the Journey - which at this moment is very ironic as it really has been quite the journey eh???!!! ;)

Okay really not kidding now - in your schemo the way it's drawn, it appears you don't have any voltage dividers? And after all of those stages too! Is this actually correct? It's hard to imagine the signal level isn't too high causing you any issues? Your sustain seemed to be possibly dropping off a bit short but it was hard to tell to be sure as you didn't keep it more than a couple seconds a couple times. Check out your ecstacy that you like & a badcat as examples.

[SILVERGUN]

...and eight months later, let there be SOUND!!! But what is it? It appears to be some kind of time warp from back in the day coming from my parents' old Marantz stereo system that used to play those big black vinyl records? The music seems to be from that era too?! Holy retro Batman! SG no wonder it took you so long, you didn't have to recreate an actual LP record recording for us. A simple mp3 would've been fine and much easier, but many thanks! That was priceless and definitely worth the wait!
Okay, all kidding aside (which you deserve btw) - the amp sounds very good and what I had in mind (less the snap crackle and pops). But I think some time ago I began to anticipate more of the what and how you would play rather than actually how the amp would sound after "the great build-up". And I must say the Zep was a bit of surprise but definitely not the Journey - which at this moment is very ironic as it really has been quite the journey eh???!!! ;)

 
....I knew that was coming,,,and you're right I DESERVE IT........all that buildup ,for THAT (3 chords on an out of tune guitar  )
I like to think that I'm a fairly technically inclined person,,,,,but I can't believe how these recordings come out......I bought a new mic, cable, but there has to be something going on in the input on this Tascam, and I'm too busy with life to figure it out........
Worst thing that happened was I sat with everything rigged up for 1/2 hour and just played and thought "there's some good stuff there,,,I'l just edit it down"....so I packed it up,,,took it home only to find out---I NEVER PRESSED RECORD  ....
So that was it,,, I took an older clip and threw it up, cause I didn't want to face the wrath of the mojo gods as I start a new project 
I hate all of these youtub vids where you can hear the guy picking the strings over the actualy sound of the guitar,,,,,so I want to record at full volume through a real mic.......BUT 
I'll get back to it.....it was kinda cool to post it,,,but also embarrassing..........I'm sure HBP is gonna expect a little better quality from me

For the record---Zep is my No.1---always has been

[Ed_Chambley]

...and eight months later, let there be SOUND!!! But what is it? It appears to be some kind of time warp from back in the day coming from my parents' old Marantz stereo system that used to play those big black vinyl records?

This is offensive.  First it is the avatar and then you make fun of my vinyl collection.  I'll tell you the best possible music comes from old black vinyl.  Not really, I have an old Reel to Reel which is way cool.  You young lads just do not appreciate the experience of listening to music with your multi-tasking.  Take a break, get a turntable, a tube stereo and read some liner notes and look at the great artwork of the cover.

However, the 28 gig drive in my truck full of mp3's is very cool I must say!

[SILVERGUN]

Okay really not kidding now - in your schemo the way it's drawn, it appears you don't have any voltage dividers? And after all of those stages too! Is this actually correct? It's hard to imagine the signal level isn't too high causing you any issues? Your sustain seemed to be possibly dropping off a bit short but it was hard to tell to be sure as you didn't keep it more than a couple seconds a couple times. Check out your ecstacy that you like & a badcat as examples.

I'm sure you can tell I take a pretty dumbed down approach to his stuff   .....all I did was duplicate the 2nd -3rd stage from the original T-wreck schemo that I had started with,,,so I'm only going off of my ears....and I want it to be a little different
Biggest issue: The gain control has a very limited "gain" effect, but adds more of a "gain-tone" effect with the cap on the wiper (I don't mind)

The sustain is really good, and the one thing that I wish I would have displayed in the clip was the sustain into feedback that it does very well.

The one thing that I did wrong during this process was get distracted....I started thinking about the effects too soon, and had a lot to learn....(obviously, from our phone conversation----and I don't want to be a pain in the A##)
Also, the breadboard, took longer than I would've liked......but now that it's almost up and running, it's a joy to work with,,,,worth every minute

So, excuses, excuses, excuses  

[silverfox]

Two questions-

Are you still thinking of using the EQ circuit you posted in the High Gain Preamp section, in this amp design?

Where did you find the IC's used in the Parametric EQ?

I like the sound of your amp. It has a very rich harmonic content.

Fox.

[SILVERGUN]

Are you still thinking of using the EQ circuit you posted in the High Gain Preamp section, in this amp design?

Absolutely......I have to wire up the D'lator first and then I'll be trying this and a delay

Where did you find the IC's used in the Parametric EQ?

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=60K6989
http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=60K6986

Thanks SF...I don't think the clip does the amp justice, but I appreciate the compliment
If you're anywhere near Philly, stop by and try it out   

[jojokeo]

SG, if you were to put the gain control down the line more you'd get a better response out of it. Also controlling the signal gain would be of benefit in this regard too. But, alas you'd have to rewire some things...are you "experimented out" w/ this thing?

Ed my man your memory is excellent! ;) I actually have a pretty "groovy" record collection also. 
It's not very convienient having to turn the darn things over after only 4 or 5 songs & 25 or so minutes. .mp3s with shuffle play have spoiled us now. It's pretty interesting I have things from Woodstock, Hendrix, & Black Sabbath to about the 4th or 5th Van Halen record to even NewWave & PunkRock stuff or Dire Straigthts, ZZ Top, Bon Jovi, & G & R, U2 & Journey stuff before things went all digital. The album art was some of the best stuff about the records too. Back in the days, there was very little information or even pictures of the bands and what they were up to. Way unlike today's info machine and sites like TMZ & others always looking for dirt on anyone with a name.

One of my all time favorite album covers was the inside of Tres Hombres. I always got the munchies staring at it and it set the picture in my mind as the ultimate Mexican meal grind. While getting the munchies we would get fired up blasting the record while watching an old western or cowboy & indian movie with the sound off. It was a riot and uncanny how the music and words could sinc up with each other or maybe it was just my low tolerance level back then? 

[Ed_Chambley]

One of my all time favorite album covers was the inside of Tres Hombres. I always got the munchies staring at it and it set the picture in my mind as the ultimate Mexican meal grind. While getting the munchies we would get fired up blasting the record while watching an old western or cowboy & indian movie with the sound off. It was a riot and uncanny how the music and words could sinc up with each other or maybe it was just my low tolerance level back then? 
[/quote]
Did Jesus ever make it to New Orleans, that's is what I want to know.

[jojokeo]

Did Jesus ever make it to New Orleans, that's is what I want to know.

He did actually when he reached Shreveport and saw this skinny little blonde boy named Kenny and blessed & annointed him as the next deciple to follow the greats Jimi & Stevie.