MODES for regular Joe's

[Willabe]

Only in the "arts" do people pull this kinda stuff and get away with it. WHY? Because it's "ART".

 
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't art, that it isn't creative or even that it isn't good.  

Ahh, yes I see and there it is. Like the hip kids say now "it's all good". Why? Because it's "Art" and in "Art" we all know "there are no rules". So it can't be wrong, because "I'm just reflecting my feelings through the artistic medium of my choice." So it must be good, right?

And that's how they get away with it, the ultimate excuse. At least for the people who go all long with it. Or should I say "buy" it? I say "the Emperor is wearing no clothes."

Just because you get up run, jump around, hit, catch and throw a ball around on a field while reflecting all the feelings in your heart, doesn't make you a good athlete.  Ahh, but athletes have to follow rules and the competition/game/event has to be organized when they play. So that won't work as an analogy, cause "There are no rules in music". Just play whatever you want when you want. As long as your feelings come out in the music, "it's all good."

Sure, form and all that have their place, but so does chaos.

So let me get this straight; You refer to Glenn as writing "compositions" and having an "orchestra" but guys like me "are completely ignorant of theory" because;    

I always know someone is completely ignorant of theory when they talk about "the rules,"

Look if you like it fine. If you enjoy listening to "long drawn out periods of dissonance with constantly shifting time signatures and 7 part counter point!" fine.

Look you might know volumes more about music than I do and you might be able to play circles around me while running backwards.       (I said early on that I really only know the basics of music theory.)

But don't bring up Glenn as a "composer" and then insult people who dare to use the word "rules" (of which I'm one) in reference to sorting and organizing harmony in music.  

or my least favorite phrase, "you have to know the rules before you can break them."

BTW, I never said that part.

He's married to a friend of mine, actually.  Most people aren't going to really get into his music, but some people do.  Both Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo from Sonic Youth used to be in his Orchestra.  So was Paige Hamilton from Helmet.  All three site him as an important influence. But they did it using, at least in part, using ideas they got from his compositions.  And at times, some of his stuff can be very powerful.  

I believe we are wired to be moved by music, plain and simple. This is widely understood by musicians and non players too. It's a big part, maybe the biggest, of why we play and they listen.

But just because we're moved by some piece of music doesn't make it good by itself alone. Watch the news and you'll see and hear something that will move your heart, but that doesn't automatically make it good. In most cases it was probably horrible.

I can hear the feelings (at least some) that Glenn and Sonic Youth are trying to reflect from their hearts, it's not to hard to hear. (And between the music I've heard by him and the interview, as conveyed by his own words and "craft" if that's what you want to call it, if my ears, eyes and heart are not lying to me, and I say this with only compassion for him as a fellow human being, but he's a very troubled man.) The feelings might be coming from a deep place inside them, but that in and of it self doesn't make their music good. It's not very hard to do what their doing musicaly.

                
                                       Brad        

[Willabe]

How many people actually bought Velvet Underground albums?  But the people who did all started bands

I did, still have the album, but I was already in a band.     It was a double album, might have been a greatest hits package? I was young, sat down with it and learned to play all the songs, didn't take very long. I was proud of myself, moved on to some other album and then forgot about it. I haven't heard that album in 30+ years.

Got a few Lou Reed albums/CDs too, can't listen to them much because of the lyrics on some of the songs. On Lou Reed live the band is Detroit session men and they are great players!

Interesting side effect about having "No rules in music' is that it levels the playing field now doesn't it? Hmm......  Because "it's all good." There's no higher levels of musical craft of composition or lyrics or melody. It's all even as long as it expresses emotion? There's no bettering the final product of the craft to convey the story and feelings that go alone with it?

But isn't that what refining the craft of the art medium is about?

I saw an interview with Prince 1 time and while I'm not a fan IMO he can write a hook. He said that today's (known) songwriters "don't know their craft" when it came to writing songs. IMO, he's right.

and a lot of people who wouldn't much care for the Velvets sure loved The Clash, or The Police. 

But there's a whole lot of distance between the level of developed musical talent of the Velvets (Lou Reed) to the Clash to the Police. A WHOLE LOT. Not even apples to oranges.

Guitars Meh! Gimme one of these;    
                    

                           Brad      

[Ritchie200]

Hmm.  Interesting that Dissonance is "defined" as the effect of tension or disturbance made by certain combinations of sounds.  So if you are using seconds, sevenths, diminished and augmented intervals (talking identifiable notes here), you are following a formula or rule.  Actually the same would apply to any noise/sound/combination you would want to make.  Otherwise you would be using more pleasing consonant intervals - again, a formula or rule. Dissonance has always been used in the process to tell a story or make a transition in a mood.  However, a whole composition of just dissonance and shifting time signatures is like an artist painting the canvas black.  The same would apply to a composition of a single note - no matter how pleasing.  Just because you can pick up a single tool, no matter how you hold it, does not mean you are creating art IMVHO. 

Now we come to the definition of "Art".  "Traditional" definitions (which the philosophers constantly decry) talk of beauty, of interest, and the requirement of some sort of expertise.  Even the most far reaching of opinions overlap with the following: (1) possessing positive aesthetic properties; (2) being expressive of emotion; (3) being intellectually challenging; (4) being formally complex and coherent; (5) having the capacity to convey complex meanings; (6) exhibiting an individual point of view; (7) being original; (8) being an artifact or performance which is the product of a high degree of skill; (9) belonging to an established artistic form; (10) being the product of an intention to make a work of art (Gaut 2000).  However, "cluster" theorists claim that there can never be a broad brush approach.  Really?

I've never believed there are words without definition.  Just like there is no music without rules.  Just like the amps we build today.  The designs have been beat to death way before we were born.  We may tweak the final result, but we are still following the tried and true paths.

What I can tell everyone for sure - a Tele is an abomination, a waste of wood and wire.  And that's a FACT!  Oh, and the Beatles are over rated.

Jim

[SILVERGUN]

 

[tubenit]

 

That's quite funny! 

[SILVERGUN]

Now,,, THAT IS ART!

[Ritchie200]

Ok, I'll be fair.  Let's dissect this and analyze it for it's true content and meaning.

Using the criteria that I previously spoke of:
(1) No
(2) Obviously a dark, deep seated, hatred of true talent.
(3) Absolutely not
(4) No
(5) Only to those with like minded perverted tendencies
(6) See #5 and also must have pushed the button of someone else in the peanut gallery who wasted their money on a funny looking guitar.
(7) Oh please, there have been jealous humans since the dawn of man
(8)  ......yeah......
(9) See #8
(10) Is this preschool?  Bueller?  Hello?

I can also speak for the Cluster Theorists and officially call it a cluster of epic proportions.

Plus, the fact that a behavioral therapist thinks that it was "quite funny" and who also owns a Tele....well, enough said.

Jim 

[SILVERGUN]

I only have 3 things to say in my defense:

[SILVERGUN]

OOps,,,,,I don't know how that last one got in there 

I hope I haven't accidently insulted that true TeleMaster by placing him in close proximity to his inferior predecessor

someone else in the peanut gallery who wasted their money on a funny looking guitar.

C'mon now, pre-school? ........I had a strat once,,,,,and then I traded it in for a REAL guitar  (by the way,,,I am rubber and you are glue....)
 

Plus, the fact that a behavioral therapist thinks that it was "quite funny" and who also owns a Tele....well, enough said.

I believe that the prerequesite for being a behavioral therapist is the recognized presence of a god-given gift to determine what is and isn't funny.........and therefore his endorsement of my artwork validates the humor in it 

I also believe that "Baby HUGH'ey" himself would approve of my thread,,, it's content,, and meaning to those rare and elusive few who aren't afraid to admit that they aren't musical geniuses,,,,,those damn "lower class" pentatonic slingers who will happily settle for a few extra notes to add to the box.............even the "Dark Lord" himself would have to see the beauty in providing these harmonically challenged patrons with a mild dose of Theory-free fretboard freedom..............or is he the musical communist I have always pictured him to be 

Yup, I just said that,............now what?  

[Ritchie200]

Yes, Pre-school   The whole reason for that throwaway two sentences was to underline the point I was trying to make about art and opinions.

The real reason you and 'Nit think that is so funny and enjoy belittling my point is because deep down under all that false ego, you guys are very, very, insecure people and putting someone down makes you feel better about your pathetic Tele ownership, your anemic tone, all the people making fun of your silly guitar, etc., etc.....  That is also a characteristic of bi-polar.  You buy a goofy guitar, and then expect it to somehow sound good!?!?!  Classic affliction.

Oh, and the fact that you posted a pic of that horrendous, pinch harmonic abusing, buzz saw amp playing, excuse for a guitar player - alongside THE master and then calling him inferior?!?!?!.....  I'm sorry, but that is past the point of no return.  There is nothing you can say or do to come back from that one.  I hope all your new guitar strings go flat immediately after installing them.  I hope your intonation is a moving target that you will never hit.  I hope your pickups sound like mud on a stick.  I hope you....  Oh wait, I'm just describing typical Tele ownership!

Sheesh, I try to contribute with a coherent, well thought out post - and look what happens.  The Delta Tau Chi Fraternity takes over......  I must rise above that rabble and not sink to the depths of despair that you two are currently swimming in.

For what it's worth, I think Hugh would enjoy your thread!

Jim

[tubenit]

Silvergun, I think you can hold your own with my dear(ly) warped friend Ritchie200!    

I've never been quite capable of matching his level of diabolical humor. He's always seemed to have a trump card. I've realized that something about playing a strat took him so far over into the dark side that his humor has always overshadowed mine.
 

I will say that it is nice to see that Ritchie Blackmore matured and came to his senses to play such a remarkable fine instrument as the Tele. I personally like his good taste with the black Tele and f-holes. Very cool!!  Danny Gatton & Tab Benoit would be very proud of him.
 


I've put together a pretty decent CD of backing tracks that seem to be a great match for experimenting with the Dorian, Phyrgian and Aeolian modes.  Practiced it again last night.  Lots of variety on the CD to try different style of music with these different modes.

I can't play runs very quickly in those modes ............... BUT I am adapting to using them more quickly than I had anticipated.

I am typically a strong critic of my own playing. On a good day, I'm mediocre (at best) if everything falls perfectly into place .  When I try recording, I typically throw away 2 or 3 songs for each one that I keep.

Having said that,  I played along with some swing jazzy blues last night & I actually thought that it sounded quite good & enjoyed what I was hearing. Straight pentatonic was pretty lame on that backing track; BUT adding the other modes, I found some really sweet notes in there that fit right into the song.  This stuff will be really useful to me on some music that's been pretty elusive to me before.

I think I am going to be able to begin intuiting and hearing where those modes are useful.

Learning this stuff is really encouraging to me.   THANK YOU again!    With respect, Tubenit

[Willabe]

What mode is this?

Isn't it a pitty?

 
http://youtu.be/drCKvCL93hw


            Brad      

[SILVERGUN]

Silvergun, I think you can hold your own with my dear(ly) warped friend Ritchie200!    

Well, I'm just here to make sure you're not subjected to any unnecessary distractions....

Having said that,  I played along with some swing jazzy blues last night & I actually thought that it sounded quite good & enjoyed what I was hearing. Straight pentatonic was pretty lame on that backing track; BUT adding the other modes, I found some really sweet notes in there that fit right into the song.  This stuff will be really useful to me on some music that's been pretty elusive to me before.
I think I am going to be able to begin intuiting and hearing where those modes are useful.
Learning this stuff is really encouraging to me

Really glad to hear that you're having fun with it, and that it's taking you where you want to go
I'll continue soon in hopes of completing an entire lesson plan for future reference.....

Some guys may say "was that it?"........BUT, until you see it all for yourself,,no explanation can match just being able to apply it!

[SILVERGUN]

I hope all your new guitar strings go flat immediately after installing them.  I hope your intonation is a moving target that you will never hit.  I hope your pickups sound like mud on a stick.

Now thats just plain mean spirited 

If you're wondering where this came from,,,I never forgave you for this:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=14146.0

A Plexi channel on a Line6......geez 

[jojokeo]

A Plexi channel on a Line6......geez 

I have mixed feelings as I just repaired a Spider 112 Bogner version Line 6 last week - an easy $100!

[SILVERGUN]

I think I am going to be able to begin.... hearing where those modes are useful.
Learning this stuff is really encouraging to me.

This is the reason for this specific thread

If you can inspire one person, just by sharing something that you may take for granted, then the benefit is always worth more than the effort or method used....

Maybe teaching can be considered an artform?..........(oops,,,I didn't mean to start that up again )

Which came first?----the music or the theory? ---------who cares?? ,,,,,,,,,but I think the answer is obvious

[Tom_Hull]

hi .

Thanks all.and silvergun

its working ..and my wife is enjoying the new song partials that i found .
i
I am justa beginner but i have found a teacher and i hope to be his  student  ,
he has a phd in guitar .doctor .

so at least i should be able to understand him.. thanks everyone .

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks all.and silvergun

its working

That's great to hear Tom....keep up the good work!  

[SILVERGUN]

I think this is applicable.........one of my favorite Tele uses of all time, and a great example of how music can create a feel:

Prelude / Royal albart HD edit...

[SILVERGUN]

A Plexi channel on a Line6......geez 

I have mixed feelings as I just repaired a Spider 112 Bogner version Line 6 last week - an easy $100!

Hey man,,,I'm cool with job security,,,,,,,,just not the extortion attempt that I was subjected to .....

If I wanted to be on a Forum with guys who agreed with my wife, I'd find one about Dancing With The Stars

[Ritchie200]

I think this is applicable.........one of my favorite Tele uses of all time, and a great example of how music can create a feel:

Weak, weak, weak, plink, plink, plink......so typical.

Can you guess the modes on these?
Ritchie Blackmore - Greensleeves live 1976 HD
Blackmore's night - Instrumental 2

Jim

[SILVERGUN]

Weak, weak, weak, plink, plink, plink......so typical.

Welll, I gues I couldn't expect a guy who would settle for a modeling amp to have any taste.......

Just another history lesson: (check the date)
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=14274.0

Just to show you that I don't have a problem with "the great one" or with everyone who plays a strat...........just the bully who would try to keep one of my students down with his emotional terrorism

And if you want to see a great example of some real talent:
Steve Morse Band - Live On Ohne Filter (HD) Part 2/2

I've been Team Morse since he took 10 minutes out of his life after a 2 hour show to make sure I understood his synth rig , and then gave me a handful of pics, thanked me and my friend for coming to his show, and introduced us to Dave LaRue
Easy team to pick..........

I heard Ritchie once kicked a girlscout on his way into Madison Square garden,,,,so that's kinda cool,,,,but no comparison

[Ritchie200]

Welll, I gues I couldn't expect a guy who would settle for a modeling amp to have any taste.......

he took 10 minutes out of his life after a 2 hour show to make sure I understood his synth rig

Why do I see a correlation in thought here....   Now now, those in glass houses!  And if the shoe fits?  That's why I suggested the Line6 for you!

I'm sorry, never been a Morse fan - pinch harmonic, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum....I mean ad obnoxious...  And if you need 16 fuzz boxes into a preamp cranked 5150 to sound good?  Hmmmm.  Any girl scout can sound like they know what they are doing with that kind of mush.  I do have to say that the Dregs sounded good - for about a song and a half.  Don't know, never saw much imagination there.  Same country lick over and over and over...and over maybe a little slower - like the pinch harmonics he is playing now.  I have also met Steve.  He did a clinic at a friend's music store.  This was right before he got the call from Purple.  He was a nice guy, he gave me a pick with his name on it.  Since you are on the mighty Morse team, I WILL sell it to you!  It came right from his hot sweaty hand!  Make you a deal!

Bully?  Emotional terrorism?  Again, coming from someone who drew first blood, those in glass houses....inferior predecessor....pishaw...

Jim

[SILVERGUN]

He was a nice guy, he gave me a pick with his name on it.  Since you are on the mighty Morse team, I WILL sell it to you!  It came right from his hot sweaty hand!  Make you a deal!

No deal necessary,,,,that's the exact same pick (s) he gave me ..............
(he must have bought a gross/gross, knowing that he was even going to have to give them to guys like you)
I guess he just recognized then, that I 'm a nice guy too,,,,and gave me more  (see pre-school above,, why change now)
I saw him hand guys that were a pain in the ass to talk to just one pick at a time,,,,,so draw you're own conclusions there

Every sound that came out of his amps that night was incredible,,,and the synth sound was one of many,,,where I just had to know what he was doing (most guys,,,,who just play strats through really loud amps,,,,,sound pretty much the same ,,,,BUT this guy was playing sax lines at the drop of a hat,,,,or lets say the drop of a Volume pedal that drove that entire signal......very cool--innovative approach)

Ritchie wore a couple cool hats on stage, but nothing else stands out to me as imaginative   

Morse was one of the only guys on the planet that could have filled Ritchie's shoes in Purple,,,but don't be mad at him because the shoes were actually a tight fit,,, and Steve streched them out to the point that R can't wear them anymore..

Anyway,,,,this thread was supposed to be about one nice guy doing something nice for another even nicer guy,,,so please save your Tele bashing for other, less important, more appropriate threads........that was the first blood---you started it!!

Don't know, never saw much imagination there

Well,,,,I guess sometimes it takes a little imagination to recognize some true imagination 
If you would've seen the tour I saw(not just a clinic),,,,,,,you couldn't reasonably make that comment

I will agree that we disagree on this one,,,,,so I'm calling for a truce in the name of goodwill towards our mutual friend.....
If he's ever expected to learn this stuff, he will need the support of both of us.......you don't have to agree that Morse is obviously the better all-aroung guitarist, and I won't change my opinion either....DEAL?

Did you even have the decency to read that history lesson above?:
http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=14274.0

Peace,
Dave

[Ritchie200]

Anyway,,,,this thread was supposed to be about one nice guy doing something nice for another even nicer guy,,,so please save your Tele bashing for other, less important, more appropriate threads........that was the first blood---you started it!!

Lets just back up here Kemosabe...  You started this thread and asked for feedback.  I thought it was a great instructional course and was looking forward to the upcoming "chapters".  The discussion sort-of took a turn to the application/philosophical side with the discussion about "Art".  As a nice guy looking to contribute, I posted what I thought was a well thought out and articulated comment with an obvious tongue-planted-firmly-in-cheek final statement to underline the point I was trying to make.  It was you and 'Nit that jumped me and ran off the reservation with it - and now it is somehow my fault because I was standing by my man - who YOU brought up because he wasn't even mentioned in my post?!?!?  Oh what a tangled web we weave and perceive.  Hmmm, we are cool because I am done with this.

I am still looking forward to the next lesson.

For what it's worth, I know 'Nit.  And he is NOT a nice guy!

Jim

ps Please ignore the last comment as it is meant to be a: To tease (someone) good-humoredly, To make or exchange good-humored jokes or banter, A teasing or joking remark, Good-humored, playful conversation, etc., etc.,......

[SILVERGUN]

So, I guess what you're saying is that you agree with me 100%  

Anyway,,,,this thread was supposed to be about one nice guy doing something nice for another even nicer guy,,,

Well, I gotta admit,,,I only threw that card to try to make you feel bad

For what it's worth, I know 'Nit.  And he is NOT a nice guy!

Well, honestly,,,neither am I ,,,,,but I'll bet you HE IS a nicer guy than me.....(see the pic of him fishing with his grandson)
I'm just some D!(k from Philadelphia (again,,,draw your own conclusions)

we are cool because I am done with this

OK,,,,so with that said:

'Nit,,,,if there's one thing I want you to take away from this conversation, it would be that this song is one of my all time favorite examples of how the minor scale can be used to create a mood........perfect touch and phrasing, combined with great tone = one of my biggest influences for incorporating modes/minor scales into my own playing
As I've said before,,,"every time I pick up the guitar I try to sound this good"........ give it the full 4 minutes of your attention,,,every note counts
Deep Purple - Wasted Sunsets

Dave

[SILVERGUN]

Scales are really collections of notes that sound good together on a specified root.

It is with great pride that I use a quote from PRR..........
And I would like to add this : Chords and Scales are really collections of notes that sound good together on a specified root.
Please see the bottom portion of this lesson for a method that I use to "create chords" based on the patterns that I use for soloing...

I would like to take a minute and apologize to anyone who may have had their feelings hurt during the course of this thread,,,,it has taught me to stay focused on the original intent of the thread, so as to provide a comprehensive, coherent collection of thoughts,,,that can be referenced and followed by any and all who visit this forum

I do appreciate everyone's input, and hope that this thread can serve as somewhat of a partial study of Modes...I also realize that by leaving out much of the Theory behind my approach, I may leave some people with a 1/2 understood lesson plan.........BUT, my intention was always to leave out the Theory, in an effort to make these lessons digestible for those who are blocked by the concepts of Theory and Harmony.
These lessons have been designed to "get you playing" modes and spark interest through inspiration,,,,,and let guitarists who are normally confined to boxes, begin to see (most of) the entire picture.

Here's #4:

[tubenit]

Thanks!  I appreciate your help and sharing.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

Would you play this in mixolydian or aeolian?

[SILVERGUN]

Would you play this in mixolydian or aeolian?

Well, if that's what you're thinking about while you're trying to learn this stuf,,,you're screw'd 

I'm pretty sure Steve Morse had to abstain from impure thought like that from the ages of 10-25

He probably just never put the guitar down long enough,,,,,or ever left his bedroom             

[jojokeo]

Though entertaining, that took a long time to get to lesson #4

[SILVERGUN]

In Lesson #4 make sure you see that even though there are 7 potential patterns....they get squeezed into 5 TOTAL PATTERNS because of the 1/2 step relationships between E - F and B - C (see how the colored boxes overlap for those positions)

I want you to memorize the 5 patterns of A AEOLIAN and then be able to see how those patterns will still be relevant patterns in the other relative modes

And that is the whole point of this thread: those five "patterns" will always tie into each other the same way....BUT, you're 1st position pattern will change depending on what key you're in and what mode you want to use.....and then you will just "rotate" the rest of the patterns around that "new" first position.

Starting to see it?

[jojokeo]

Yep, I see and knew it it's just that you're explaining what I already knew in a slightly different way. I know the patterns and their connection and sequence to each other. I simply lacked practicing them in a way that helped my mind to connect them when changing keys. I have been so programmed see them in the key of C/Am or G/Em that when the key changed to something else I will stuggle at times with it. More going down the fret board at times than going up.

But combined w/ my recent numbering of the pentatonic scales and where they each reside or sit inside of it's associated diatonic mode - it's helped me a lot to visualize these modes/patterns/scales much better in my mind's eye. It is especially helpful in keeping the modes/pattern relationships intact or how they are connected in the correct order as I play up and down the neck no matter which key I'm in.

This is really what I've already been working towards over the last year or so BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY to do it with some sort of backing track or chord progression in the background to also learn how to apply it with a sense of melody. Otherwise it's easily lost as just a lot of notes with no beginning or ending of a solo. I've known the "musical alphabet" and "basic grammar" for a long time but I've not developed the speaking part of things the way I should have for any number of reasons.

The last year or so I've realized this and have been trying to focus on developing & creating more of a way to phrase or say things better in the way I want to. It's not as easy as I would like it to be & I'm still not where I want it to be. But I know this is a process and everyone is on their own time schedule and learning curve. I think I will be striving for this improvement and ability the rest of my life. But, the main thing is that I've realized and come to terms with this understanding am developing an organized direction (finally) of what I must do to move forward down this musical path I'm on.

Thanks for all the help SG (& Willabe)! I still have more questions though on applications which was touched earlier regarding playing a certain mode over a given chord progression (not playing a simple C scale over a key of C chord progression) to invoke a different feel, mood, dissonance, or complexity.

[jojokeo]

Thanks for all the help SG (& Willabe)! I still have more questions though on applications which was touched earlier regarding playing a certain mode over a given chord progression (not playing a simple C scale over a key of C chord progression) to invoke a different feel, mood, dissonance, or complexity.

I'll try to explain w/out guitar in hand. SG- going back to my chord progression example: A///  A///  G///  G///  D/F#///  G///  A///  A///  and repeat.

Pete Thorn said rather than play a solo over this using A ionian to try playing it using A mixolydian for a slightly different feel. (I hope I am remembering this correctly, does that sound right?)

[SILVERGUN]

I'll try to explain w/out guitar in hand. SG- going back to my chord progression example: A///  A///  G///  G///  D/F#///  G///  A///  A///  and repeat.

Pete Thorn said rather than play a solo over this using A ionian to try playing it using A mixolydian for a slightly different feel. (I hope I am remembering this correctly, does that sound right?)

Yes, that would work because those 2 modes (Ionian / Mixolydian) are only different by one note (Mixolydian uses a b7),,,so the only time it may sound odd is if that note falls directly on a natural 7.....but music isn't always an exact science, and sometimes odd is what you might be going for.

Pete might have been saying instead of using Minor Pentatonic, use Mixolydian    (G is in Min. Pent.)

In your example, the G (Major) chord would not naturally occur in the A Major (Ionian) scale, that's why that progression would be a great fit for Mixolydian (because G is the b7 in A major)....so actually, trying to play A Ionian over that progression would be introducing the natural 7th (which is G#),,,,which might sound odd

I tried to limit my examples to exact science so when someone who is learning this as brand new, tries my examples, they will always sound good (in key), because there won't be any odd notes in there......to me thats the best way to solidify this stuff...

Try this: (I emailed this to you, but not sure if you got it)
 
Change your chords to: |  Em7   Dm   A(add9)  Em7 :|   (or any chord that naturally appears in that combined position chart)
And play E Phrygian over it    (use the same combined pattern chart in the above example,,,works because E Phr. is the 3rd mode of C Major)
See if you can hear that Spanish / haunting / awesomeness

Then break out your nylon string and do it again!

[SILVERGUN]

I had to go back and edit all of the Lessons because of one wrong dot that didn't belong in the combined position charts

I'm very disappointed that no one caught it

This was the bad note:

[jojokeo]

Using my example: So A mixolydian is the same as D ionian as far as "key" goes, and basically we could be jammin on the chords I gave you & I just think "play in the key of D major/B minor" - isn't that the same thing? Yes I could stay in the F# Phrygian position but then I'd be locked down in only that position. Can't that Spanish / haunting / awesomeness" be found as long as I simply stay in that same key no matter which mode on the neck I'm using? (this is where overthinking it can lead to paralysis for me). Or am I missing something???

[jojokeo]

I had to go back and edit all of the Lessons because of one wrong dot that didn't belong in the combined position charts

I'm very disappointed that no one caught it

This was the bad note:

I finally read & printed the 4 lessons out today while still doing normal work and trying to get a few questions answered in the meantime!!! Later this evening I'd have had more time to go over them. 

[SILVERGUN]

Using my example: So A mixolydian is the same as D ionian as far as "key" goes, and basically we could be jammin on the chords I gave you & I just think "play in the key of D major/B minor" - isn't that the same thing?

Yes,,,that will help you with where the notes are.....
And you just create the Mixolydian feel by focusing on the A notes in your D major patterns........good thought 

I could stay in the F# Phrygian position but then I'd be locked down in only that position. Can't that Spanish / haunting / awesomeness" be found as long as I simply stay in that same key no matter which mode on the neck I'm using? (this is where overthinking it can lead to paralysis for me). Or am I missing something???

Bad thought 
The F# Phrygian "position" isn't just one position..........all of the other positions in D Ionian will work,,,it just helps to start on the F# root to get a feel for how the intervals react to F# as your root note (to create the Phrygian feel).....

I dont think you're missing anything,,,just maybe overthinking it....
You are creating the feel of the mode by rooting your phrasing around the root of the mode.....regardless of what position you are in..
It's the way the intervals change in reference to the root note that creates the feel.....you can use any of the correct positions, it's just easier to tell you to start on the F# Phrygian first position

And when I'm practicing just trying to see how the mode feels,,,I just stay in that first position because it's easy, and i'm just trying to hear the effect of the Mode

Good luck Buddy, and please keep asking questions

[Ed_Chambley]

SG, I like your wanting to give back.  You are doing a fine job.  Like Brad, I once used numbering and now I do not have to.  There are lots of people who will play something technically correct because they know it is, no matter what it sounds like.  Some like it and some do not.  I am guilty of playing a lot of wasted notes in the past.  I learned theory after I learned guitar.  I learned guitar playing chord forms and the notes contained in them, always playing with the change.  This was before the internet and if we learned something new, like a chord, I would run down the street to a friends house and show him and then we would figure out how to put it in a song.

Even though I did get the opportunity to learn "the modes", I still think in terms of chord position for phrasing.

There may not be any rules, but most popular music is very simple.  To be a great player is simple as well.  All you have to do is be on time, know the material and realize you are just a guitar player.  After a few beers all most people hear is Rhythm anyway.  I no longer think in terms of "lead" as I am usually phrasing from a chord position.  I am just someone who plays a riff while the singer catches their breath.

I do miss the 80's music when we were just shredding.

Keep up the work guys.  I am sure I will learn something new.