compensated nuts

[danger-russ]

Thought I'd start a topic on this. Get a discussion going.
Couple years ago I was guitar shoping, At guitar center.looking for a high end lp copy.
Spent a few hours playing different guitars. Kept going back to the same one it just sounded way better to me.
Didn't put much thought into it. I got it home and set it up, I noticed that the bridge didn't end up with the usual spacing when I set the intonation. Again didn't think to much about it. One day the nut caught my eye and I saw the reliefs cut into it.
Never saw anything like that before. So I looked up the specs for the guitar. It has a earvana compansated nut. Well I did some tests and a bunch reading. Not sure I believe all the hype. But the guitar is more in tune all over the neck.
Most of the hype I don't buy is that it compensates for the increase in string tension when you fret a note. That doesn't seem to be the case. Seems that all it really does is the same thing bridge compensation does and bring the harmonics intune with the note played. Seems to me that the nut compensates for the open - 11 fret and bridge for 12-24.
I'm thinking if it works the same as bridge comp. Then different strings will need different amounts so the earvana replacement nuts are probably not the way to go. I just bought an used squire strat thats Going to get a new neck. Think im going to buy some nut files and take a shot at making my own version of this idea.
Anyways thought I would share my experience, and  recommend that if guys get the chance to play a guitar with a compensated nut.
To try it out I really like it.

[Madison]

I think this has come up before but here goes.....

I got my hands on a nice Japanese LP copy a few years back.It needed some work.
I decided I'd start getting into making nuts and experiment.
I went through 5-10 tries.
I thought, "man, I suck at this!".
A friend finally suggested an Earvana for it.
Installed it, it plays perfect all the way up the neck.

The way I imagine and I could understand compensating nuts is;
the bridge adjusts to the 12th fret and the compensating nut adjusts, the other way, to the 12th fret.
(this is probably the wrong way to explain this, in a technical sense, but just a way to get my head around it)

My conclusions.
It could be that the saddles were shot.....never did replace them.
Frets low....maybe, but it's fine for me.
It could be that I suck at making nuts ......not true. I have since made a few that worked fine.

Over all, this thing plays fantastic with the Earvana.
All the way up the neck the intonation is excellent and my ear is VERY picky.
Best $35 I ever spent on a geetar.
Takes 10 minutes to install and you don't have to hack into the wood.
Okay, you have to get a little used to it being there after install because it is a little larger than a normal nut when you play on the first fret but no biggy. Worth it.

This guitar is still one of my favorites to play for the tone AND the intonation.

My .o2

I don't have any connection to Earvana it was just a life...... guitar saver for me.

[danger-russ]

Found the thread on the earvana nut you mentioned. Some interesting stuff there.
I'v made a few nuts that have worked well in the past.
I'm not really trying to push the earvana really. It's too much of a one size fits all.
And my experience with intonation is thats never the case. It always amazed me at the changes
I would have to make at saddle, just by changing string brands and keeping the same gauges.
Guess im real pickey about it. I think I'm going to try making a shelf nut similiar to earvana. But trial and error
My own spacing. At the moment my plan is to tune up at 2nd fret. And set the bridge so 2 and 14 fret match perfect.
Then shim the nut out until the open strings are in tune. Should be interesting to see what I end with. Will post some results
When I have some. I have a strong feeling that I will end up something similar to the earvana but different.
And with some luck it will sound awesome.

[G._Hoffman]

Most of the hype I don't buy is that it compensates for the increase in string tension when you fret a note. That doesn't seem to be the case. Seems that all it really does is the same thing bridge compensation does and bring the harmonics intune with the note played. Seems to me that the nut compensates for the open - 11 fret and bridge for 12-24.
I'm thinking if it works the same as bridge comp. Then different strings will need different amounts so the earvana replacement nuts are probably not the way to go.

That is exactly what compensation is about - compensating for stretching the string when you fret it.  Play with a slide, and you don't need any compensation. 

In practice, very few people, and very few guitars, need anything as complex as an earvana nut, at least on the nut end of the guitar; and those who do (in my experience) usually need a more unique solution than the one size fits all design of the Earvana or the Feinten system. 


Gabriel

[Ritchie200]

Tom Scholz (probably the most anal of all sonic specialists!), built a compensating nut and installed it on his Les Paul way back in the early 70's.  While recording the many layers of guitars for the Boston album, he kept noticing slight intonation problems on the harmonies and traced it to the nut.  He originally thought it was tape temperature, equipment/motor/drive issues, even using the tried and true finger on the capstan trick to try and match it up!  I'm sure my deaf ears would never notice these intricacies...!  I think Gabe is right on as very few people would even notice or require such accuracy - or they are compensating for a greater problem that only an experienced luthier like Gabe could identify and repair.

Jim

[John]

Then again, if you can get it 95% right for $35.... 

[G._Hoffman]

Then again, if you can get it 95% right for $35.... 

You can get it 95% right by getting a good setup, which in my shop runs in the $85-125 range.  (Floyd Rose trems suck to work on!)  Adding a proper, custom made, compensated nut will get you to maybe 97%, but only if you are also getting the rest of the setup work done.  Making sure your fret work is clean is much more important.  And if the rest of the setup isn't right, the compensated nut is probably going to make things worse!


Gabriel

[John]

What I meant was, I think you're right, most guys don't have *that* good of an ear. I know I sure don't.

Then again, just about any guitar can benefit from a good setup, which takes care of 95% of the intonation problems. ;D

[G._Hoffman]

What I meant was, I think you're right, most guys don't have *that* good of an ear. I know I sure don't.

Then again, just about any guitar can benefit from a good setup, which takes care of 95% of the intonation problems. ;D

Ah!


Gabriel

[danger-russ]

So far after a string change from 10s to 08s, the earvana is no better than a regular nut.
With 11s it's really good. But gets worse with 10s and with 08s no difference between it and a regular nut.
To be fair I had raise the action on the bass side with the 08s, and I still need to set the neck relief to get it back down.
But I doubt most people would notice the difference. And I agree with out a good setup, it's pretty pointless to try and nitpick intonation.
The neck for my strat should be in by the end of the week. So I will be getting to play around with this over the next couple weeks.