What's your favorite amp for pedal platform?

[Geezer]

I want to build an amp as a grab and go for use with pedals. I've been building some OD pedals lately and they don't sound great thru my channel switching amps.

What is your experience, or what is the best amp for taking OD pedals and making them sound great?

I have a 78 Fender Musicmaster bass amp that I will be using.
It was hacked long ago, so it has 2x 9-pin, 2x Octal, and an octal rectifier socket. Has an Allen PT capable of handling up to 2xEL34's.

Single channel, PP 6v6 or 6l6 (or EL34, as I have a 50w Marshall-type OT that I could use).
I could have up to 3x preamp stages if I used a cathodyne PI. (Merlin has a design in his new book for one that claims to perform as well as a LTP)
Three stages and a CF if I used a MOSFET for the CF.

Stock chassis just has volume and tone, but there's room for more. I could squeeze a full TMB and Presence in there if needed

I will also have a passive effects loop for delay and reverb, putting only the OD pedals (and maybe a compressor) out front.

Cab is the stock 1x12 MMB

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Geezer

[worth]

Sounds like you may have bought the Musicbastard from Rob Hawkins ?

[Geezer]

Don't know Rob Hawkins, and I've had this amp for 10 years.

Thinking about it, I really don't use totally clean (like a little growl even in my cleans) and I don't need a high wattage, high volume monster, so how about a good, basic tweed variation?

Cathode biased power section, just keep the basic volume/tone configuration.

Thoughts on how well tweeds do with dirt pedals?

G

[Ed_Chambley]

This may be sacrilege on the forum here, but I bought a Egnater Tweaker used for $200.  It has a greenback 12.  I removed the hot switch and replaced it with a 1/4 inch plug where it is footswtichable.  Best grab and go I have ever had.  A tube change in these make a HUGE difference.  I put in some RCA 6v6ct and all RCA Black preamps.  Other than the limit of 15 watts, it was a great way to go.  I got 2 nono pedalboards, one for the front and one for the loop.  I grab and go with 8 pedals, 1 guitar and the tweaker.  One trip to my vehicle and one trip back.  I got the amp for what the speaker costs almost.  It does cleans fairly good and it will actually get into marshall tones as well.  The Vox position is bull, but it does change the tone.  There is only one thing that sounds like a early 60 Vox and that is a JMI Vox.  YMMV.

When I bought it I thought the worse thing is I would have to build an amp in the chassis.  After the tube swap it really became a nice sounding amp.  It is PCB, but if I have future problems with it I will have to only build a board for it.

[Geezer]

Sounds like you may have bought the Musicbastard from Rob Hawkins ?

Wait a minute ........Rob Hawkins, amp repair guy in VA??

If yes, then I DO know him, but haven't seen him in years. And I didn't get this amp from him.

G

[Geezer]

Doing a little web research, the 6G3 Brown deluxe looks interesting ....seems they do well with pedals.

http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/DELUXE_6G3.pdf

The amp is already mostly there...I could probably have it converted to 6G3 specs in an evening or two. And I wouldn't have to drill any more holes, except for the effects loop jacks.

G

[tubenit]

I think the 6G3 would be a good choice.  A great player I saw in Nashville used a blackface Deluxe non reverb with pedals.  The 6G3 is somewhat similar except for tone stacks.  He could get clean and the pedals sounded quite good thru his amp, IMO.

I'd probaby use 5uf or 10uf cathode caps in V1  and lower the coupling caps after the LTPI TO .047 OR .033.
Maybe try a 5751 in V1 also?

I think you're headed the right direction.

With respect, Tubenit

[SLW]

The blackface DR is s popular choice for a pedal platform.  Many of the pedal demos at Proguitarshop.com use the DRRI. 

[SILVERGUN]

I was really impressed with the liquid sustain of the T'wreck express type I just built...
I was even more impressed with how well it took pedals...
I modded it to have all of the OD built in (because that's what I wanted), but this amp (stock) was intended to be a great platform for pedals
If you're into the sustain into feedback thing, and don't need the amp to be 100% clean before adding pedals,,it's worth taking a look,,,especially if you haven't done one yet...

Simple circuit,,,just not sure how it will respond with an effects loop 
Anything I tried to place in the signal path stole some magic.....just use your guitar volume to clean it up

Most recently(today ), I removed the tone stack and paralled V1 and WOW, does this thing sing 

[Jack1962]

What I did was build a amp that the preamp is the low gain side of the normal channel of a Marshall JMP , for the output section I used 6L6's mostly because I'm not a fan of EL34's and they have a richer tone. It sounds great on it's own , however this circuit , works great with pedals as well.

[worth]

Sounds like you may have bought the Musicbastard from Rob Hawkins ?

Wait a minute ........Rob Hawkins, amp repair guy in VA??

If yes, then I DO know him, but haven't seen him in years. And I didn't get this amp from him.

G

He's been having really bad recurring bouts of lead poisoning.. from his days of amp repair. and auto mechanic

[tubenit]

Geezer,

I thought some more about how I would approach the cleanish amp with pedals idea. IF you want a totally "grab & go", then I would be inclined to include an active FX on board, especially if using the 6L6 or 5881 or EL34 tubes.  The active FX would be good for delay, reverb, etc   .............. AND as a master volume.  You wouldn't have to carry a D'Lator either.
 

I took the 6G3 schematic and added some mods that I would personally consider along with the active FX.

CHECK for errors!  Compare schematic with layout and go with schematic if there is a difference.

Just an idea to consider ......................

With respect, Tubenit

[Geezer]

Sounds like you may have bought the Musicbastard from Rob Hawkins ?

Wait a minute ........Rob Hawkins, amp repair guy in VA??

If yes, then I DO know him, but haven't seen him in years. And I didn't get this amp from him.

G

He's been having really bad recurring bouts of lead poisoning.. from his days of amp repair. and auto mechanic

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Does he still live in the same place, up above Roseland?

[Geezer]

Active effects loop.......yes, that would be the way to go.

I think to start, before I do too much on this and to see if it will work for what I want, I'll just use the existing board.....build it without the internal loop. I'll use my dlator for the testing.
Then if all goes well, I'll build a proper Hoffman style board to put the loop inside.

Looking at the schematic, notice the unconventional way they did the bright and normal channels.
The bright channel is just "as is"....no bright cap, but the normal channel actually has a .003 snubber cap across the plate resistor to darken the tone.
So instead of making the bright channel brighter, they made the normal channel darker....interesting.
Also, notice how close the values of V1 plate and cathode resistors are to Dumble values.
220k Rp and 3.3k Rk (if you undo the shared 1.5k Rk and double it for a single triode, then round it up to the next most common value)

Thanks for the help

G

[Geezer]

What I did was build a amp that the preamp is the low gain side of the normal channel of a Marshall JMP , for the output section I used 6L6's mostly because I'm not a fan of EL34's and they have a richer tone. It sounds great on it's own , however this circuit , works great with pedals as well.

Jack, which JMP....1987?

Also, which side of V1.....2.7k/0.68uf, or 820R/320uf??

Thx, G

[tubenit]

I built this Texas Raptor amp for my son. I thought it sounded good with pedals.  He had a flanger and Ibanez Super Tube Screamer that we ran thru it.  It's reasonably clean but cranked does get some  OD.  Sort of hangs on the edge of slight OD.  Very nice amp for chording I thought also. 

I think this could be a good pedal platform.

Here's the SCH info on it.   Note that the amp ironically has some similarities to a Top _at which I discovered after I built the Texas Raptor.


http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=2442.0

With respect, Tubenit

[worth]

Sounds like you may have bought the Musicbastard from Rob Hawkins ?

Wait a minute ........Rob Hawkins, amp repair guy in VA??

If yes, then I DO know him, but haven't seen him in years. And I didn't get this amp from him.

G

He's been having really bad recurring bouts of lead poisoning.. from his days of amp repair. and auto mechanic

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Does he still live in the same place, up above Roseland?

Yes.. He still lives in the Roseland area.. but when his symptoms get bad, he stays with his mother in West Virginia.. bad, bad.

[Tone Junkie]

You know Geezer its funny we build all these amps trying to get the perfect tube over drive. Then because we want to just grab a few pedals, small combo and go, we come back here,
 often were we started (G).
I have to admit Ive been pushing this around myself. They say the Rocket takes pedals real well . I went all high gain and now its to much. went trainwreck then plexi. I put a 5751 and 12ay7 in the front end of my marshall I like the normall channel with pedals I dumped the 330uf and went 4.7uf with the 820R. I like the sound but with the EL34 tubes its still got a little to much balls when cranked.
I do know that I want active FX and thats not in my current plexi clone.
So Im interested in what you guys like and dislike as you experiment.
My thoughts are leaning towards small head 1/12 speaker box, pedalboard and guitar. Im finding my back aint what it used to be (LOL).
Thanks Bill

[guyguyguy]

Among my amplifiers (5f6a-5f2-5f4-aa964), Black Face Princeton aa964 is the one that gives the best sound of the pedal, the amp does not color the pedal with the distortion of the amp. The AA964 is very clean (smooth silky) and like to be boost with pedal. I have in a head and cab  with weber 10F150-O, this speaker gives a lot of bottom.

[jojokeo]

My 2cents agrees w/ guyguyguy in keeping it simple using a clean Princeton design. You already have the two 6V6 holes in the chassis too. But - I would "build in" some options for versitility such as:
1- pushpull cascade (low gain style) or paralleling the 1st tube
2- simple Treb/Bass stack but also pushpull to bypassing & going through a .002 only
3- push/pull presence which can be removed out of circuit

These are three main "bang for your buck" options you may need and like for various venues & conditions.

[phsyconoodler]

A single channel AB763 with no reverb or trem. I find that to be the ultimate amp for pedals.It gets hair on it stock and then you hit it with a tubescreamer or Jet Driver and it's heavenly.
  Add a master for the ultimate in control.
I did just that with my 'little bastard' jam amp. Tone is unreal good with pedals.

[guyguyguy]

1965 Fender Princetion Reverb to see what i mean by a silky clean Princeton aa964, clean even on 10 with a strat. Mine sound better (head and cab with better speaker) but you have the idea. To have distortion you need humbucker past 8 on amp's volume. This Princeton have less distortion than the Princeton Reverb.

[guyguyguy]

Oupss this is the AA964.
1964 Fender Princeton Black Face Guitar Amplifier

[Geezer]

Well guys, I got the amp changed to 6G3 specs....cleans are beautiful.
Nice breakup when you push the volume a bit, natural sounding.
OD pedals....yuck 

For mild OD, with the gain turned way down, if not totally CCW, it's OK, but trying get a good sustaining, harmonically rich tone is hopeless.

I heard this song today by the scorpions.....listen to the solo starting a around 1:05

Scorpions - Still Loving You

THAT is what these pedals sound like to my ears.
And not only the pedals I've built, but a Boss SD-1, Bad Monkey, all have the same "un-natural" grating type of sound.

So, I've come to the conclusion that I'm ruined towards these things (diode clipping) and will never be satisfied with anything other than natural valve generated OD/distortion.

I plugged in my DuMars variation preamp and THERE IT IS! BEAUTIFUL!

Well, at least now I know, and can stop messing with these pedals and get back to building amps!

G

[jojokeo]

And not only the pedals I've built, but a Boss SD-1, Bad Monkey, all have the same "un-natural" grating type of sound.

So, I've come to the conclusion that I'm ruined towards these things (diode clipping) and will never be satisfied with anything other than natural valve generated OD/distortion.

Those are mostly (if not all?) op-amp based designs w/ diode clipping in the gain loops and/or other methods of "diode dependancy" trying to get a mojo working. Depending on diode clipping is just not going to get you there no matter which ones you're using. Personally, op-amps are the worst for gating/cutting out but the best you can do is piggyback the op-amps and/or use hi-fidelity op amp chips for best tone and performance. But, this is why op-amp based pedals are frowned on in the inner circles for all of their shortcomings but they can be mass produced for low cost and consisten results so it is what it is, and they'll continue to be produced if not for proffit margins alone. Easy money!

Most all of the modern high gain amps utilize solid state preamp circuitry for gain/distortion/boost/drive/saturation controls & channels along with preamp tubes (eventually in the signal chain), even the "big ones"...Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Fender, Orange, etc...those high gain sounds aren't just coming from tubes alone. Also, I can't think of anyone playing live on stage that doesn't have a pedal board in front of them to work with?

Don't give up the ghost G...

[Geezer]

Jojo, I got taken in by all the utube vids of the wampler paisley drive, Ecstacy, Timmy, zendrive, klon, OCD (ALL opamp based with diode clippers) sounding so smooth and sweet.

I guess I'm not understanding when you say "those high gain sounds aren't just coming from tubes alone", because I get really nice, high gain OD that's harmonically rich and pleasing to my ear using ONLY tubes.
I was just looking for some way to get something at least close to that without having to tote the whole rig around and set it up every time I play somewhere.
The pedals I've tried don't get anywhere close, even though those guys on the utube videos sure had me convinced.

Here is the one that sold me on the paisley drive.....listen starting at about 4:00

Wampler Paisley Drive

Mine (3 actually, exactly the same, all in a single enclosure, with socketed opamps and clipping diodes) are built to exact original spec, using top quality components.
I've tried dozens of op amps (even double and triple stacked) and every conceivable combination of clippers (zeners, schottky, 2n7000 jfets, you name it), all to no avail.

[sluckey]

Geezer, have you looked at the Line 6 stuff?

[Geezer]

Geezer, have you looked at the Line 6 stuff?

No, but I have tried all the digitech stuff, had a vox valvetronix pedalboard for a few days, same with the new fender mustang board...had it few days and sent it back to MF. All very thin a plasticky sounding.

G

[tubenit]

Geezer,

I truly don't have any agenda for you! Honestly!

Just an FYI .....................................

Around two wkends ago, I spent quite a bit of time playing my TBM that has the active FX.  

I compared the clean with the Zenith Drive and my Zend Skreemore pedal   VS.   the TBM with the tube OD section engaged without pedals.

I went back and forth over and over & honestly had a difficult time deciding what I liked the best between the two because they both sounded so good to me.

However, it should be noted that I was using the midboost on the clean.

The purpose in saying all that is this ................... maybe with more dumblish preamp values and the dumblish style tone stack with pedals would be work experimenting with before giving up on the amp?    I would think that could be an easy experiment that didn't take long?

I know Robben Ford has played thru the clean of the evil red knob Twin using pedals (Zendrive) to occasionally get his tone when on the road.

The schematic represents the clean & FX platform that I put the pedals thru.

With respect, Tubenit

[jojokeo]

Jojo, I got taken in by all the utube vids of the wampler paisley drive, Ecstacy, Timmy, zendrive, klon, OCD (ALL opamp based with diode clippers) sounding so smooth and sweet.

I guess I'm not understanding when you say "those high gain sounds aren't just coming from tubes alone", because I get really nice, high gain OD that's harmonically rich and pleasing to my ear using ONLY tubes.
I was just looking for some way to get something at least close to that without having to tote the whole rig around and set it up every time I play somewhere.
The pedals I've tried don't get anywhere close, even though those guys on the utube videos sure had me convinced.


Mine (3 actually, exactly the same, all in a single enclosure, with socketed opamps and clipping diodes) are built to exact original spec, using top quality components.
I've tried dozens of op amps (even double and triple stacked) and every conceivable combination of clippers (zeners, schottky, 2n7000 jfets, you name it), all to no avail.

Is what you're saying above implying that you've made pedals w/out using any opamps?

Using jfets & mosfets alone are what really doesn't it...much more "tube like" sounding and response. But, especially with jfets due to the low tolerances, this is what makes using and making them hard for many people and companies to use since they are much harder to reproduce a large production run because of the selection process and the biasing each one needs accordingly. I've been experimenting w/ some vintage PNP Ge's lately too...also very nice but selection & such is also important similar to the jfets. A simple single tranny in a beano/rangemaster circuit is pretty cool. Leave it on the whole time and simply adjust guitar Vol. Going into a jeft/mosfet drive is really nice. The jfet/mosfet take cascading really well...much better than an opamp pedal or cascade an opamp pedal into a jfet/mosfet type. You'll get your smooth high gain singing sustain tones.

check out this guy playing his beanoboost/rangemaster, he leaves it on throughout and has killer SRV tones with it. sometimes he hits a tubescreamer afterwards - http://youtu.be/sSYtoo7jvYg

[Geezer]

Is what you're saying above implying that you've made pedals w/out using any opamps?

No, I only referenced the 2n7000 because I used them as clippers, ala zen drive and others.

I started with the stock op amps, and then tried every different type I have on hand (literally dozens of different ones...op200, 4580, 4558, 4559, tones more I can't remember all the numbers) along with every possible combo of diodes, including LEDs, which I liked the best, btw)

I'll listen to the file you posted and comment when I get the chance, as I'm out the door to travel right now.

Maybe you're right and I'm barkin up the wrong tree with the op amp OD

Thx to ALL for the interest and help!

G

[Ed_Chambley]

I have had the opportunity to work for SoundStage here.  They are responsible for Lakewood Amphitheater.  I can assure you I have never seen a guitar setup without a rack of effects and drawers of pedals.  I own lots of pedals, but not many cheap ones.  The paisley drive is a wonderful pedal, but it does not perform well if certain pedals are in front.  For instance, my keeley compressor in front of it makes too much noise, but if I put a dynacomp or a Analogman Comprosser it works quietly.  I have found the sparkle drive superior to the Ibanez tube screamer.

So you asked about setup of grab and go.  The amp has to have a tube overdrive which is switchable with my foot.  For grab and go at the amp input I have first a compressor, then an overdrive.  I have a paisley, and a sparkle drive and the last thing in the chain is a BB+ xotic.  The BB+ had the feel of an amp and will sustain for days.  In the loop the first thing is a Boss GE7 which had been modified to reduce noise.  I have 2 different delays, one a Wampler Tape Echo and a MXR carbon comp for slapback then the THC chorus to a phaser MXR script adapted with a 9v input, from mid seventies and for reverb I have a verbzilla.  Turn up a 15 watt amp wide open, but it has to have an additional gain stage (tube).

Does it sound like my 73 marshall running 8, 10.  No, never will.  But to get this rig where the guitar will play with only my chording hand it is too loud for clubs these days.  The 70's and 80's are gone.  I can get the amp to the volume where it will feedback without being too loud.  I think this is the secret and then use pedals to accentuate tone.  If you cannot get the amp screaming, then you are completely relying on pedals for tone and overdrive.  Might as well just take pedals and go into the Sound System.  I know a local band that does just that and it sounds as you say plastic.

I can tell you that when someone mentions Grab-and-Go, I think of having to play most anything.  I may be going to play classic rock, 80's rock, Country, blues and even some pop.

Playing a gig is a different story all together.  I know the Line 6 stuff is considered by some to be a joke, but I have a rack unit as well as a Rocktron Voodo Valve and Alesis midiverb.  I have many different pedals and if I carry all of them the board is sidestage with only a controller.  Pedal board is about 5 foot by 2 foot.

Effects are necessary, but overdrive is a different animal.  To get the amp really singing, turn it up.  Boosters are my friend as I seem to get a better amp tone if I hit the front hard.  If I am the only geetar player I always use humbuckers in the way of a Les Paul or a 335.  I know SRV used a strat, but I just am not a fan of that tone.

I do a lot of Country gigs and this is simple.  If it is big place it is a fender twin with delay and a telecaster if there are 2 guitar players.  If only me, Les Paul.  It is a style and you cannot just buy a telecaster and it magically appears.  Gotta use you fingers.

Also, high output pickups have never worked for me.  I use classic 57's or PAF, nothing else.  It the tele it is only noisy broadcaster pups.

Sorry for the loooooong post.

[Davidg]

Funny u mention that the sparkledrive is superior to the TS Ed,I worked for a friend that has a large production (stage,sound,lighting) company and the Sparkledrive was by far the most common pedal on all the touring pros pedalboards I saw.I always wanted one since and never have tried one but your post just reminded me and I think I need to do something about that. Seriously I would say that at least 75% of the working pros had a sparkledrive as their only OD so there must be something to them.

[jojokeo]

...more op amps! It's got 4 of 'em and a high gain tranny w/ the usual clipper LEDs dujour or modded w/ several types and a lifted/bypass option. With the clean setting side turned down it's a stock 808 but blended back into circuit it gives that "sparkle" back from the typically overly compressed distortion pedal grind. I believe that it uses feedback (?) between opamps to achieve this also which is similar to my Queen B pedal. Helps rain things in and gives more feel & response maintaining clearer overdriven tone rather than compressed & squashed distortion and limited bandwidth. Hard to describe but it makes a difference when playing and hearing it in person.

[Ed_Chambley]

...more op amps! It's got 4 of 'em and a high gain tranny w/ the usual clipper LEDs dujour or modded w/ several types and a lifted/bypass option. With the clean setting side turned down it's a stock 808 but blended back into circuit it gives that "sparkle" back from the typically overly compressed distortion pedal grind. I believe that it uses feedback (?) between opamps to achieve this also which is similar to my Queen B pedal. Helps rain things in and gives more feel & response maintaining clearer overdriven tone rather than compressed & squashed distortion and limited bandwidth. Hard to describe but it makes a difference when playing and hearing it in person.

I don't even know what you wrote, cannot keep from looking at the photo of that beautiful guitar stand.  You know where I can get one of those?

[jojokeo]

Ya know ever since I started using it I don't have to use Fast-Fret anymore.

[sluckey]

There are people on this forum that will be offended by that avatar.

[jojokeo]

Who are we Muslims living under Sharia law? Nothing is exposed and there's not any difference between this and Kate Hudson's Carl's Jr commercial running on national TV & even during the Super Bowl w/ 10s of millions of people watching of all ages, gender, religion, & ethnic groups. I can guarantee there will be no "wardrobe malfunction".

[sluckey]

This is an open forum with little or no censorship. That works because most members are mature and are sensitive to and respectful of fellow members' beliefs. I'm hoping to appeal to that side of you too.

[jojokeo]

Sex, drugs, and rock & roll is as American as baseball, hot dogs, and Chevrolet. So now the forum is turning into something diluted and censored.

Art by it's very definition doesn't always go with public opinion of the majority or even the minority. Think of how many songs, paintings, statues, and other expressions of freedom, etc. that would not be in our world today if the Hoffman forum had any say in the matter? I'll change it but you are making a mistake and something out of nothing, limiting freedom by which we all live. This isn't even pornographic as nothing is exposed, except for those people that "think" they can see something that isn't there.

sex, drugs, and rock & roll = America

[tubenit]

I've been to both the Musee d'Orsay and (saw Venus de Milo at) the Louvre in Paris. Loved the art there alot!
 

With respect, Tubenit