Bad News - Svetlana tubes out of production for receiving tubes

[SoundmasterG]

I got this from a post over at Ampage. We need every manufacturer of tubes we can get and we are losing one of the better ones for some tube types with this news...

Greg

http://music-electronics-forum.com/t32158/

[DummyLoad]

that totally sucks. the only current production power tubes i trust. i guess trusted now.

 

--pete

[alerich]

The SED EL34 is widely praised but I have never tried them as they are 55% more expensive than the Tung Sol EL34 I normally use but I ordered a set yesterday after reading this news.

[6G6]

Sometimes it seems like the whole world is reaching a point of being like Walmart.
They'll be glad to sell you something that is a crappy version of something that is only
a second choice of what you really wanted in the first place.

E.G. you came for name brand skim milk, but leave with off brand 2% that is close to the sell by date,
because that was the closest they had...and didn't really care.

I am not sure what the answer is.
We all cause this by settling for less than we wanted, but sometimes there is no real choice.

[HotBluePlates]

Makes me wonder if we should buy what's left of them, before they become part of the "NOS" market.

[Ed_Chambley]

Makes me wonder if we should buy what's left of them, before they become part of the "NOS" market.

I was thinking the same thing. Holding them a few years and selling them NIB on ebay.

[12AX7]

I think you will realize why they cost as much as they do. I have the tung sols too, but every time i try them i put the SED's right back in. The TS have a clean sound thats debatably better or at least as good. But the OD tone pales compared to the SED, and i'm not talking about cranked PA and output distortion. Just sending a cascaded preamp thru a SED equipped output is to my ears at least much nicer. I know of a surplus place thats sold them dirt cheap in the recent past, and i'm headed there this weekend to clean them out ! (assuming they still have them)

The SED EL34 is widely praised but I have never tried them as they are 55% more expensive than the Tung Sol EL34 I normally use but I ordered a set yesterday after reading this news.

[HotBluePlates]

By "SED" do you mean the old, old SED when that really meant Svetlana Electron Devices? Cause New Sensor (I think) became their distributor for the U.S., priced them out of the market, and forced Svetlana to use the "Winged C" logo instead of their own brand here.

("C" is a Cyrillic letter for the "S" in Svetlana.)

Anyway, I asked because while I really don't use EL34's or 6550's now (and the 6L6's I have will probably last me a couple-decades), I can envision these becoming the next scarce tube that gets marked up a lot. However, due to marketing problems alluded to in the linked thread on the other board, the Svetlana tubes are ~$28-38/each, depending on tube type.

And those are wholesale prices... Dunno if I could justify buying 10-20 of a type I don't use right now, even at wholesale (but new) prices. Most of my other tubes are old stock where I've lucked into very cheap prices (except the Genalex KT66's and Mullard EL37's).

[alerich]

I think you will realize why they cost as much as they do. I have the tung sols too, but every time i try them i put the SED's right back in. The TS have a clean sound thats debatably better or at least as good. But the OD tone pales compared to the SED, and i'm not talking about cranked PA and output distortion. Just sending a cascaded preamp thru a SED equipped output is to my ears at least much nicer. I know of a surplus place thats sold them dirt cheap in the recent past, and i'm headed there this weekend to clean them out ! (assuming they still have them)

I haven't tried many different brands since my amp runs the plates at 640VDC and the Tung Sols sound good and I know they can take the abuse. As sturdy as the SED tubes appear to be built they should be up to the task. They are due for delivery tomorrow. I'll install them Saturday morning and test drive them and report back. If they're really good I'll probably grab another set or two.

[SILVERGUN]

I'll install them Saturday morning and test drive them and report back. If they're really good I'll probably grab another set or two.

Thanks Alerich, I'm curious, because I dont have much experience with different tube brands, and I've been voicing my current build around some older used Svetlana EL34s I had laying around....

Let me know if you think it's worth picking up a pair....I'm definitely going for an overdriven sound in this amp, and to me this set sounds a little flat

I'll only be able to afford one pair so don't worry about me depleting anyone's stock 

[Gary_S]

That's the kind of news i don't like to hear.

What will it be in the future? us having to play through SS amps?  I think i'd rather give up, or play acoustic. 

[HotBluePlates]

I haven't tried many different brands since my amp runs the plates at 640VDC and the Tung Sols sound good and I know they can take the abuse. As sturdy as the SED tubes appear to be built they should be up to the task. They are due for delivery tomorrow.

If you just ordered them, my understanding (which may be wrong; someone chime in to verify/dispute, please) is SED = Svetlana Electron Devices = NOT the Svetlana in St Petersburg. That's because the rights to that name were bought by the same folks that bring you Sovtek/Tung-Solski/Mullardski/etc...

Or maybe they are the same but being distributed by New Sensor, and therefore the price increase to push the market towards New Sensor's Sovtek and Saratov offerings.

The Svetlana being described as closing receiving tube business is presently labeled "Winged C". Winged C tubes are more expensive than most, but not all other new production tubes (at least that's what I saw looking at AES/CE Distribution pricing).

[HotBluePlates]

Just googled "Svetlana Tube" and saw a picture of a "vintage Svetlana 6L6WGC" with a box labeled "Svetlana" and with the Winged C, but the tube itself is marked "Sovtek."

Anyway, anything marked Sovtek or "brought to you by New Sensor" is not the company we're talking about.

[SILVERGUN]

What's your opinion HBP?
Do you think it's worth it to jump on a set of these before they're gone?...or super-overpriced?
I definitely dont mind the current price and would like the best sound possible from a new production tube, because I have no old stock 
I would just like to own a decent product, for my own builds......

I see the Winged C's for $75/pair,,,,,,and for better sound that doesn't scare me  ((NOS for $250/tube is obviously ridiculous))

My preference is pre-amp OD with thick harmonic mid-lows, and a smoother high end,,,AND I tend to run the power tubes on the hot side.......

[12AX7]

My preference is pre-amp OD with thick harmonic mid-lows, and a smoother high end,,,AND I tend to run the power tubes on the hot side.......

Not to steal HTB's thunder, but thats exactly my preference too. My amp is roughly like a 2204 but much better preamp imo with lots of smooth rich preamp tone, and i run a clean output getting all my OD from the preamp at anything less than stage levels at least. And i've used a number of EL34's in it but none match the winged C's. I have a dual bias setup with adjustment pots and jacks outside the amp. So i can swap tubes quickly and it long ago became obvious that for all the details that are universally loved......sustain, balance, complexity, dynamics, the C's are the easy winner. They really are about as perfect as i can imagine a EL4 to be. So i'd say go for it. I intend to stock up because w/o these i'd be lost ! And by the way, i hear loads of difference between power tubes even when run clean. I know some think they only matter when driven, but i disagree 110% with that notion.

[HotBluePlates]

I honestly don't know. It's been at least a decade since I had a pair of Svetlana output tubes.

[alerich]

Ok. Installed the SED EL34 tubes today. I do like them. I jammed this afternoon for about an hour on the Tung Sol tubes that were in it at fairly loud volume. They're broken in but not worn out by any means. I don't gig anymore so they see light to medium duty around the house. The Tung Sols really sound good. Then I installed the SED tubes and biased them up and they sound really good, too. In my amp it wasn't a night and day difference (and every amp is different). I would say the SED tubes are a little clearer and a little less fizzy on the top end. The Tung Sol tubes were $45 for the pair while the SED tubes were $70. This is very limited data that doesn't factor in longevity but based solely on my taste test today I probably wouldn't spring for them again. The Tung Sols sound really good and are good enough for my needs.

How closely matched should a set of "matched" tubes be? My last set of Tung Sol tubes were 10ma apart out of the box and held that gap over an eight month span. I could live with that since I don't expect them to be matched exactly and they sound good. These SED tubes were 35ma apart in my amp out of the box after warming up. This follows the tube after swapping tubes. I recently modified my bias circuit for independent bias adjustment so I can work around mismatched tube but sheesh.

As an aside I also ordered three Tung Sol 12AX7 reissues and popped those in. I really like them. My benchmark preamp tubes for this amp are a set of RCA NOS grey plates. The Tung Sol tubes are not quite as nice as the RCA tubes but they are pretty close and closer than any other current production tube I have tried. EH, JJ 803S, Sovtek LPS - they all sound kind fizzy. The Tung Sols have a hint of that fizz but they are way closer to the RCA tubes. I found a current production winner.
    

[HotBluePlates]

...
How closely matched should a set of "matched" tubes be? My last set of Tung Sol tubes were 10ma apart out of the box and held that gap over an eight month span. I could live with that since I don't expect them to be matched exactly and they sound good. These SED tubes were 35ma apart in my amp out of the box after warming up. ...

I don't personally trust any vendor to provide actual "matching".

RDH4 says pentodes/beam output tubes should be matched for current at idle and matched for power output (show me a vendor doing that). For class AB or class B triodes, RDH4 recommends matching for idle current at the operating point and at full dissipation at the operating voltage, and that currents should match within 2%.

RDH4 also says the impact of mismatching is generally increased distortion and reduced power output. It does present a case of using 2 entirely different triodes in each side of the push-pull stage, with most characteristics having a 2:1 difference. The result was an estimated 5% distortion of the output (which was deemed surprisingly insignificant).

[HotBluePlates]

If anyone is interested in a group buy for some Winged C output tubes, I might be able to help you out.

I and another member may buy a few (probably EL34's); I can get wholesale prices, but don't get a quantity break until 12 tubes (or 6 matched pairs).

Not sure when we'll submit an order, so PM me and we'll see if we can get something together.

[SILVERGUN]

Thanks for all the info HBP, 12AX7 and Alerich...
I'm probably gonna pull the trigger on a set, and just never look back, based on your opinions...

[duke of earl]

HBP-I may be interested in a pair of 6L6's-I have a pair in my amp and love em!

[Ritchie200]

Well that just sucks....I just saw this thread.  IMHO they make the best KT88 on the market and I have been using them for about the last 20 years.  HBP, can you get quantity pricing on total tubes ordered or just the same type?  Can you shoot me a price on 4 KT88's and let me know if/when you might be ordering?  Thanks!


Jim

[HotBluePlates]

Bump.

We'll be placing our group order this weekend (likely later today). Wanted to give any other latecomers a chance to get in on it before we submit.

[alerich]

I've had the SED =C= Winged C EL34B tubes in for about six months now. They do sound good. Not significantly better necessarily than the Tung Sol EL34B I had been using but they are a good sounding tube. I'd say the SED was maybe a little smoother where the Tung Sol is a bit more aggressive. I like them both. However, tonight I was inside my amp doing maintenance and upon checking the bias one of the tubes is just drifting all over the place, mostly drawing less current then rising back up again. Swapped the tubes just to be sure. Nyet. I pulled them. Marked the offender. Put my Tung Sols back in. Dialed them up and they are solid. These SED tubes were pretty far apart to start with. I know one set is not a scientifically viable sample but I can't spring for ten sets to do a more in depth study.

I liked the SED tube but at 50% more than the Tung Sol I don't like them 50% more. It's back to Tung Sol for me.

 

[HotBluePlates]

I liked the SED tube but at 50% more than the Tung Sol I don't like them 50% more. It's back to Tung Sol for me.

This statement is the core problem for SED / =C=. They made marketing/distribution mistakes which put their reach into the U.S. market in the control of their competitors, who them priced SED's product so that it was too expensive to compete.

[ajeffcote]

I found this thread WAY late it seems. Did the group buy happen? I see Winged Cs for sale all over the place. I also know that if they did stop production, a lot of what is on the market now are factory culls. I want a set of =C= 6L6GCs, but I don't know who to trust? Any advice?

[HotBluePlates]

I found this thread WAY late it seems. Did the group buy happen?

Yeah, we did that a while ago.

I see Winged Cs for sale all over the place. I also know that if they did stop production, a lot of what is on the market now are factory culls.

Not necessarily. Due to poor distribution deals, real Svetlana tubes were marketed in the U.S. by their competition, who priced them higher than everything else, and promptly used the "Svetlana" name on competing tubes. Hence the SED and Winged C bit. Therefore, what is left for sale now is probably still unsold stock previously shipped to dealers.

I want a set of =C= 6L6GCs, but I don't know who to trust? Any advice?

Antique Electronic Supply has them. The price has gone up since we did the group buy; even my wholesale source raised the price 17% and offers no quantity discount (which we took advantage of before).

[Jack1962]

Well Guys This Really Does Suck , I Just Check With All My Vendors , None Of Them Have Any Svetlana Tubes