Thinking about stocking Mercury Magnetics transformers

[EL34]

I am thinking about stocking Mercury Magnetics transformers.

Do you buy them, do you like them?
What amp models would be the best to start stocking?

Here's the web site
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm

They are a bit pricey


Do you like other brands better?
Which brands?

[kagliostro]

Mercury Magnetics are known as to be very good transformers

as you say a bit pricey

My standard reference are Hammond transformers

a little brand that is well appreciated here is InMADout

http://www.inmadout.com/

Franco

[eleventeen]

Offhand and without any idea of how many xformers you sell in a year, I would think this to be problematical....just because there are so many variations: Whatever you got, the buyer wants something else. If you could earn better pricing by reselling suff qtys over the course of a year, great.  If you manufactured and resold a "Hoffman XYZ" amp using a particular MM model (or two) and could achieve volume discounts that way, great. If not, I think you would find your potential profits locked up in excess inventory. That's just my quick take. 

[EL34]

I get the 25+ dealer discount at MM and they allow me to sell up to 20% off list price
I don't have to buy 25 trannys at a time to get the 25+ discount so I don't have to tie up a bunch of money

List price is the price you see when you browse their web site


Plus I can get stuff via USPS flat rate boxes from them fast if someone wants any of their trannys

There are standard trannys I sell all the time like 2 x 6V6 Deluxe sized OT's and power trannys
2 x 6L6 OT's and power trannys, etc
That's what I mean by  which models

[tubenit]

I would be more inclined to buy a ClassicTone transformer. I've never bought one, but have thought about trying one before?  If you could carry those, I'd be likely to buy one from you the next time I build something.   The Mercury Magnetics are very pricey.

Just my 2 cents.  With respect, Tubenit

[EL34]

Been reading some negatives about Classic tone stuff but you can't always believe what you read


Who else likes classic tone trannys?

[toneseeker]

I have built four amps using classictone PT and OT. Never had any issues and I like the look of them.

[EL34]

Good info guys, keep it up.
Need way more input like this

[EL34]

Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips

I think the MM tranny sounded the best

I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html

[Stankfut]

Listening through the sound clips on the link, the MM definitely had better bass response. I think I liked it best overall, especially on the clean passage. The other three were remarkably close to my ears. On the first listen, I think I would have put the Heyboer second, but then I listened again and liked the Classictone better . To be honest I think any of these would make a fine amp. If price were no object, I would use MM.....but I'm poor so I would probably go with the Classictone.

[tubenit]

Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips   I think the MM tranny sounded the best

I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html

I've listened numerous times to that comparison over the last months or so.  IF I were grading the tone on a scale of 1-10, I would give the MM only one point more, but I do agree it is probably the better sounding.  IF we add in the cost factor and go "bang for the bucks", I would give the CT trannies 1st place.

FWIW, I have read mixed reviews of builders commenting on whether they are glad they bought MM trannies.  I've read more positive then negative review, but some I've read have expressed thinking they were not worth the expense after having played the builds for a while.

I don't have strong feelings about this or a conclusion, just more my thoughts at this juncture without trying any of those trannies. If you carried MM trannies, I would anticipate eventually buying some from you and trying them out.

Also an uneducated opinion of mine is that I don't think the PT makes much difference in tone. I absolutely have experienced that the OT can make a really significant difference.

With respect, Tubenit

[Ed_Chambley]

I have never been unhappy with a Heybour or Mercury.  I just replaced a Classictone OT in a Deluxe Reverb with a Discount one you sold me and the owner loves it.

It is just mainly preference.  I like their stuff, but I have never sprang for a PT since I do not think any benefit.

The big point is I get to put that little plaque on the chassis and that is where all the Mojo is.

Here is the big deal.  Mercury has done a great job advertising and I have guys ask for them and are willing to pay for them.  A lot of hobbyist will simply disassemble one amp when tired of it and build another circuit.

They are the only folks where I have received bad OT's, and they did not hesitate to replace them.  That says a lot.  I love playing with different OT's and to me they make a difference.  Maybe not much by themselves, but everything adds up.  That is why some amps are really cool and others are run of the mill.

Besides, how much profit can there be in a Classictone 5E3 tranny for $35 bucks?

[eleventeen]

One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference, more of a Pat Metheny cleaner tone. It's always a crunchy "Tweed/Marshally" tone you hear in these. For sure I understand that the "Tweed" tone is more popular and achieving it is likely a more powerful motivation for demanding a tube amp in the first place. That type of tone, I also understand, has a much stronger "archive" of artists who have played using that kind of tone..."lore" if you will. Finally, one thing I will positively assert about that kind of tone is that "holes" in the tonal range are usually quite apparent---though I would say that those would result more from circuit strengths/defects than OT.  Just pointing it out with no agenda either way. Part of what makes a Princeton sound like a [genuine] Princeton (talking Tweed or 6G2) would be a decidedly undersized OT that IMO no designer would select *except* out of economy. A beefy "Deluxe" "22-watt" OT, not to mention a 30-watt Tremolux/Bassman transformer would probably sound much better in an erstwhile Princeton circuit, to my ears.

[tubenit]

What amp models would be the best to start stocking

?

IF you were only going to carry one PT,  I would want one that is 300-0-300 with 150ma.  Both 5v and 6.3 of course.

(I could probably get by with 275-0-275 with 150ma?)

Then with the 300-0-300 (for example),  I can get:

- 330v with 5Y3GT
- 360v  with 5V4
- 390v  with GZ34
- 420v  with solid state

I can build anything that I personally would want with that one PT because I'm not going to go over 30-40w max. Just trying to offer some feedback on the "models question"

With respect, Tubenit

[EL34]

One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference

That tone is not personal favorite either, I was just listening to the over audio content

Anywho, It sounds to me so far that not many people are willing to shell out the extra bucks for a MM OT
By the way, I am not so much interested in MM power trannies, just OT's
Keep the comments coming so I can get way more feedback

Steve,I don't know if MM does drop ship, I would have to ask

[DummyLoad]

i like classictone, hammond & heyboer, the NSC stuff you sell is OK too. don't like MM even at 20% off list: that's not a value. not at all. $120.00 list for a fender DR OT that hammond, heyboer, CT all sell for around 45.00?
a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential. other's have a different opinion i'm sure.




--pete

[DummyLoad]

One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference, more of a Pat Metheny cleaner tone. It's always a crunchy "Tweed/Marshally" tone you hear in these. For sure I understand that the "Tweed" tone is more popular and achieving it is likely a more powerful motivation for demanding a tube amp in the first place. That type of tone, I also understand, has a much stronger "archive" of artists who have played using that kind of tone..."lore" if you will. Finally, one thing I will positively assert about that kind of tone is that "holes" in the tonal range are usually quite apparent---though I would say that those would result more from circuit strengths/defects than OT.  Just pointing it out with no agenda either way. Part of what makes a Princeton sound like a [genuine] Princeton (talking Tweed or 6G2) would be a decidedly undersized OT that IMO no designer would select *except* out of economy. A beefy "Deluxe" "22-watt" OT, not to mention a 30-watt Tremolux/Bassman transformer would probably sound much better in an erstwhile Princeton circuit, to my ears.

spot on!


--pete

[EL34]

i like classictone, hammond & heyboer, the NSC stuff you sell is OK too. don't like MM even at 20% off list: that's not a value. not at all. $120.00 list for a fender DR OT that hammond, heyboer, CT all sell for around 45.00?
a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential. other's have a different opinion i'm sure.
--pete

good to know Pete

I have never had an issue with the NSC transformers I sell
The problem is that I think they will be phasing them out one at a time.
Maybe not all, but the ones that are slower sellers

They discontinued the 022798 super reverb power tranny and the 022848 pro rever OT and a couple others because they have to have a certain quantity made and the sales do not justify replacing them again

I think all these other tranny companies have put a big dent into New Sensors tranny sales because they don't have magical internet mojo

How many of these companies like MM, Classic Tone, etc were around 10 years ago?


So much of internet blurb is hype and whatever people want to believe

[MakerDP]

There is no way I would buy a MM transformer when there are great sounding options that are sooo much cheaper.

I've used Hammond, Heyboer, Classic Tone and Edcor. They have all sounded fantastic. My preference is Edcor but those are made-to-order and you have to wait about six weeks. It certainly helps that Edcor looks better than all the others and is cheaper than all the others, but they also sound fantastic... and they have been around for a LONG time.

Now, if you could somehow manage to be the only person who sells Edcor iron "off-the-shelf" I think you would make a tidy profit indeed.

[jojokeo]

Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips

I think the MM tranny sounded the best

I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html

They're missing a couple soundfiles that they used to have on there by Hammond and Marstran. Being that this is coming from Classic Tone you can imagine what they post on their site about what's said about the others? Now if MM did this too, it would likely be reversed? Take it all with a grain of salt as they say and let your own ears decide what you like or not.
I will also say this in general - I very much like and prefer to always have options available to me. If I have the option of only an 8ohm tap vs 4, 8, & 16 ohm taps I will always buy the OT with multiple taps. Some PT's give a couple secondary B+ or input voltage options to manipulate the voltages if wanted which again can be an advantage too.
I have a MM Tweed 6v6 OT in an amp I use gigging and get compliments all the time to which my bandmate buddy plays his BFDR. That's some pretty tough competition and direct comparison right there. This was again just on Saturday night in fact coming from the bass player, drummer, and singer too. Then another from a buddy sitting at the bar across the room. My amp more than holds it's own against a legend (which I also doctored up - it's one hell of a tone machine).
I do have Classic Tones in two other SE amps but those are not set-up the same so direct comparison is impossible. I have several using iron from Hammond organ donors, and a couple "new"/"regular" Hammond OTs & even a Weber too. I will say I have an EL34 MM Axiom OT waiting for me to get off my butt & put it into use along with a fat stack 6V6 OT. Sorry I can't give more feedback on those yet.
 
*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?

[EL34]

I didn't read any of the stuff on the MM page, I only played the sound files

I know better than to read that sort of edited stuff

Thanks, but the other missing sound files don't mean as much to me as the feedback here

I am only looking to add some new stuff to my store that you guys will buy
I am not stuck on adding MM trannys


keep the feedback coming

[BrianS]

I've used Classic Tone transformers twice: A PT for an old Gibson 5watt amp, and an OT for a Hot Rod Deluxe.  Both seemed well built and the OT sounded good to me.  My customer was really happy, too.

Personally, the hype around the MM iron is a little too much for me.

[EL34]

I've used Classic Tone transformers twice: A PT for an old Gibson 5watt amp, and an OT for a Hot Rod Deluxe.  Both seemed well built and the OT sounded good to me.  My customer was really happy, too.

Personally, the hype around the MM iron is a little too much for me.

I am beginning to get the same idea from all the replies here so far


keep it coming

[HotBluePlates]

*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?

I'll take those files! I haven't used a ot of same-model different-brand transformers, and would like to hear the differences myself.

[HotBluePlates]

Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips

I think the MM tranny sounded the best

I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test

I agree; the MM sounded the best in that group of samples. Cost/Performance is always the debate with them.

If you're able to get short-turn orders from them or another vendor, why not offer the option of the cost-effective model & the expensive MM model? This way of working would depend entirely on you not having to actually stock multiple versions of the same OT on-hand.

[shooter]

I'm not qualified in the sound department, but the guys that have played thru my builds, clones that they are familiar with, say; "wow, what did you do different?, I like it". I use edcor and Hammond, my preference is edcor, even with the 6week lead-time.  One of the most liked tho was a modified 5E3 tweed using your standard small tweed OT, between the tube reg sag and the somewhat under sized OT it won out in the local store when they did a side by side with an original 5e1.

[EL34]

One of the most liked tho was a modified 5E3 tweed using your standard small tweed OT, between the tube reg sag and the somewhat under sized OT it won out in the local store when they did a side by side with an original 5e1.

The NSC 041318 Deluxe OT?

[PRR]

> a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential.

[Mike_J]

I used the MM 100 watt Tweed OT that is a clone of the Triad transformer in my Steel String Singer clone.  It is a little beefier than the twin reverb type transformers Magnetic Components sells.  I also used a MM blackfaced twin reverb output transformer in my Dumble 124 build.  Also used the MM chokes.  Have never used the MM PT.  Too much money for no gain as I see it.

I am very pleased with the tone of the amps I have MM OTs and chokes in but I am also very pleased with the amps I have Magnetic Components and Heyboer iron in as well. 

If it were me stocking or at least selling MM OTs and chokes I would probably sell what you have boards for.  For example the 5E3, 5f6a, Plexi, AC15 and AC30, AB763 twin reverb iron maybe.  That way you are supporting the board side of your store. 

Someone that is going to devote a significant amount of time in making their own amp is probably going to want to put the best quality components they can afford in the build.  A 20% price reduction is a substantial amount of money when you are talking MM pricing.

Hope that is helpful.

Thanks
Mike

[Jack_Hester]

I'm beginning tend towards Edcor.  I've been using Hammond mostly, but the Edcor prices are right in line with most Hammonds, and they are a quality looking transformer.  Plus, I like the really wide variety available.  Drawback is the lead time to make.  I forget what they say it is, but 4+ weeks is my experience.  I'm usually never in a hurry when I order.  I collect parts well ahead of the build.
 
Jack

[EL34]

Thanks for the feedback guys

[tubenit]

If it worked out reasonably for Doug, I'd be interested in Edcor.  When we were discussing the "Major" idea at 30w, we looked at Edcor.  ClassicTone would be fine also, IMO.  As a reminder, more you can buy stuff from Doug & not have to go elsewhere ........ the more one saves on shipping costs.

With respect, Tubenit

[EL34]

I'll have to check out these other tranny companies and see what kind of dealer pricing they offer


If they don't have dealer pricing then I can't sell them here

[Ed_Chambley]

Buying parts for me and other persons repairs are 2 different things.  Hammond transformers are not cheap.   For instance, their 50 Marshall drake copy (Hammond # 784-139) sells at Metro for $150.00.  The cost me $108 each, but are $68 if I get 10.  I love this OT and any I put in others amps, they love them as well.  They tend to hold up much better than stock.

Weber sells Mercury Magnetics and cannot drop ship for some reason, but I have had one dropped shipped to me.  I do not know why, but I believe thy hold orders to get a certain quantity to get a larger discount.

If I am purchasing anything for a build that I know I will keep, like the AC15 a couple of us have built, I get what I want.  If I were looking for a deal I could just buy a used one for $400, but that is not why I build amps.  I purchased a Mercury Magnetics and with discounts it cost $128.00 whereas the list is $235.00.  Still high, but the tranny Sluckey and Lego used is about $108.00.  Sure we could have gotten a Classictone, but I tried on several occations to confirm if it were 6K as the spec sheet states.  Not a single reply from Magnetic Components, and their 2 dealers did not know.

Email Patrick at Mercury Magnetics and see how long it takes to get your answer.  Usually within 30 minutes.

So if all the transformers were setting in front of you and you could get whichever one you want, what would it be?  The bitter taste of poor quality lingers longer than the sweet taste of low price is forgotten.

Also, they do have a great selection and I can wait 6 weeks for Edcor, but if it is a repair, well that is a different story.  I really do not think anyone buys a paint job, but they do buy hype.  Edcor gets attention from the pretty paint too, but they do have good prices. 

But I can afford another $55 to get what I want for an amp I plan to keep, but I also use George L cables on my pedal board because there is a noticeable difference and play nice Gibsons, Fenders and Ibanez guitars.  If money was my main concern I wouldn't build amps and I can get a good guitar for $400.

I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?

[EL34]

So that sounds like a thumbs up for MM

[SILVERGUN]

Just another 2 cents...
When I start shopping I go right to Classic Tone's website, because I like the way it looks,,the way the xfmrs are organized and it gives me the low end benchmark for where the pricing should be.

CT's site gives you the option of buying from Triode USA or Amp Parts Direct (I use Triode)
I never buy anything else from Triode, so as Tubenit has mentioned, it feels like I am throwing away shipping money.

I always feel guilty when I buy from another supplier, and I would love to be able to get CT units from you at the same prices I get by being redirected to Triode.

It would be REALLY cool if you could work a deal with them where you would become a 3rd supplier and they would link to your site in the same way they do for the other 2.

Talk about more business 

Please feel free to edit accordingly if you don't like the supplier names in my post.

[Ed_Chambley]

So that sounds like a thumbs up for MM

Yes, MM is a thumbs up.  Hype sells.  There are a LOT of builders that only use MM.  I can assure you hype has value.  2 amps you are looking purchase one on Ebay or Reverb.com.  Both 5E3.  One has Mercury Iron and one has Mercury Magnetics.  You are buying without playing.  If they were the same price, which one would sell first if the price were the same?

Now some will say it doesn't matter, but they are in the minority.  I mean I put some Mercury Iron in a Epiphone Jr a while back.  Complete waste of money IMO, but not in the owners opinion.  Hype has value.  I have also put a few in Egnater Amps as well.

Mercury Magnetics also does something that used to be commonplace in the US.  They protect their distributors by putting a large list price and have structured tier pricing.  This lets the distributor make a little profit on parts, but they want loyalty.  If you are loyal to their brand they reward you with much better pricing.  They are not Walmart.  I have a great respect for this.  Some other brands will sell just as or almost as cheap to individuals as they will to small repair shops.

[Mike_J]

Buying parts for me and other persons repairs are 2 different things.  Hammond transformers are not cheap.   For instance, their 50 Marshall drake copy (Hammond # 784-139) sells at Metro for $150.00.  The cost me $108 each, but are $68 if I get 10.  I love this OT and any I put in others amps, they love them as well.  They tend to hold up much better than stock.

Weber sells Mercury Magnetics and cannot drop ship for some reason, but I have had one dropped shipped to me.  I do not know why, but I believe thy hold orders to get a certain quantity to get a larger discount.

If I am purchasing anything for a build that I know I will keep, like the AC15 a couple of us have built, I get what I want.  If I were looking for a deal I could just buy a used one for $400, but that is not why I build amps.  I purchased a Mercury Magnetics and with discounts it cost $128.00 whereas the list is $235.00.  Still high, but the tranny Sluckey and Lego used is about $108.00.  Sure we could have gotten a Classictone, but I tried on several occations to confirm if it were 6K as the spec sheet states.  Not a single reply from Magnetic Components, and their 2 dealers did not know.

Email Patrick at Mercury Magnetics and see how long it takes to get your answer.  Usually within 30 minutes.

So if all the transformers were setting in front of you and you could get whichever one you want, what would it be?  The bitter taste of poor quality lingers longer than the sweet taste of low price is forgotten.

Also, they do have a great selection and I can wait 6 weeks for Edcor, but if it is a repair, well that is a different story.  I really do not think anyone buys a paint job, but they do buy hype.  Edcor gets attention from the pretty paint too, but they do have good prices. 

But I can afford another $55 to get what I want for an amp I plan to keep, but I also use George L cables on my pedal board because there is a noticeable difference and play nice Gibsons, Fenders and Ibanez guitars.  If money was my main concern I wouldn't build amps and I can get a good guitar for $400.

I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?

Ed

Mark Sacketti at Magnetic Components is the person I trust most about transformers.  I have talked to him many times and he has always given me good information.  A few years ago Magnetic Components removed their phone number from their website (probably thought they would keep me from calling Mark as much then) however they made the mistake of not changing their phone number.  PM me if you have a Magnetic Components question and I will give you Mark's phone number.  He would want to reassure you about their products.  Nice guy as is Patrick at MM and Arlyn at Heyboer.

Thanks
Mike

[jojokeo]

*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?

I'll take those files! I haven't used a ot of same-model different-brand transformers, and would like to hear the differences myself.

Here's a pretty straightforward review on all SIX trannies from the original comparison and gives a very favorable MM detailed review. You can follow the links on top of the page to hear the other two sound files that were removed at some point.

[EL34]

 Magnetic Components  is now Classic Tone?

[Ed_Chambley]

Magnetic Components  is now Classic Tone?

It is a brand they began producing to further the idea of paper bobbins.  This is what I read.  They are adding transformers all the time.  They are a great value for the individual and they are fine products.  Tone Quest Mag likes them and they do a lot of reviews I consider spot on.

[jojokeo]

Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics

[EL34]

Was just on Classic tone web site
I would not say it is easy to get around on that site

geez, why can't you get a simple grid type layout and see all the models for fender on one page?

[EL34]

Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics

So those are all the same company?

[Ed_Chambley]

Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics

So those are all the same company?

I believe Triode is not.  Magnetic Components has a brand of tube transformers called Classictone.  Lok here:

http://www.magneticcomponents.net/

[EL34]

ok, it's confusing but I think i see that CT is a branch of MC

[EL34]

Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone to sell Classic tone transformers

Example: princeton reverb OT 40-18045
http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html

I would have to buy 18 pieces to get them for $25.61
Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that

Anyone can go there and buy a princeton reverb OT for $34.44

Now take a bunch of different models and multiply that
I don't want to put $50k into a a new line of transformers and I don't have room to stock 18 pieces times 25 models of transformers

That deal does not compute

[Willabe]

Mark Sacketti at Magnetic Components is the person I trust most about transformers.  I have talked to him many times and he has always given me good information. 

Yes, Mark's the guy to talk to at CT.


                   Brad   

[Willabe]

ok, it's confusing but I think i see that CT is a branch of MC

I believe that's correct.

They are an old company from Chicago going back to the 40's? They moved to Schiller Park just west of the city.

They were the #1 company that Gibson ordered their iron from for many years. They also supplied most of the iron for Valco's many different amps which were ordered and sold under different names.


                  Brad     

[Willabe]

Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone

Yeah, Meh I don't like skinny girls either.     

Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that.

I think if you buy in bulk they will drop ship them for you? I think that's how it works with Triode, that way CT doesn't have to do the office leg work.


                   Brad