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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: other input tubes?  (Read 2784 times)

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Offline Mook

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other input tubes?
« on: April 23, 2015, 11:02:14 am »
I know there are other tubes used as the initial input, such as EF86 or 6SL7 and various versions of 12ax7 (au7, at7, 5751, etc), but has anyone ever used a 6L6 as an input tube?    Is it possible?    What others are out there?

Also, what about using a 300B or 2AB as output tubes?

I guess I'm asking for "against the norm".......what out there is COMPLETELY original??


Mook

Offline eleventeen

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Re: other input tubes?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 11:37:47 am »
That would be a poor choice for half a dozen reasons.


1: 6L6 requires astronomically more voltage drive than a guitar can supply.
2: A 6L6 is built to "gate" or control a powerful stream of current. Similar to what I said #1, a guitar has nowhere near enough power to "turn the crank" or "diddle" a 6L6. It would as if an insect is trying to turn on the faucet in your home. It doesn't have anywhere near the strength, ot torque, or however you'd like to measure it.
3: Ergo, what we want to do in the first tube or first three tubes is to boost the daylights out of our teeny guitar signal so that it at least has some hope of trying to diddle a 6L6. Out of a guitar we have 1/4 volt, 1/2 volt. To drive a 6L6 we want in the area of 25 volts, perhaps more. So we need to multiply/amplify that guitar signal 100 times.
4: At the same time, it is massively easier to manipulate our tone while the signal is small, provided we can do without inducing hum and noise which would be amplified along with our native guitar signal.


There are plenty of "boutique" amps that use those big fat tubes as output devices. They very much tend to be Class "A" which can produce a very clean signal, but we are not especially interested in the cleanest of clean signals.
Most of them are kind of transmitting tubes, they were developed with those uses in mind. They are expensive and much harder to get.
They usually have 2.5 volt heaters at high amps which is a complete irritation since all our other tubes have 6.3 volt filaments.
They are built to have high high volts on the plates. 1200 volts, maybe. 450 volts is dangerous enough. Once you start getting over 1000 volts all the surrounding parts have to be high-voltage rated, thus they are MUCH more expensive. We really would like not to have 1 kv+ running around our amp if we can avoid it. The potential for arcing, not to mention death, is large. (Not that 450 volts can't kill you) That's one of the reasons why those tube usually have special leads going to their plates, yet another reason why just a plain old socket with no external leads is easier to deal with.


There's other reasons, but those should be enough to produce the wave-off.





Offline shooter

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Re: other input tubes?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 12:36:32 pm »
Quote
all the surrounding parts have to be high-voltage rated
can you say corona balls  :l2:

I might even have some laying around from an old 120kv PS
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: other input tubes?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 01:49:37 pm »
I know there are other tubes used as the initial input, such as EF86 or 6SL7 and various versions of 12ax7 (au7, at7, 5751, etc), but has anyone ever used a 6L6 as an input tube?    Is it possible?    What others are out there?

Also, what about using a 300B or 2AB as output tubes?

I guess I'm asking for "against the norm".......what out there is COMPLETELY original??


Mook
I have a 2A3, Push Pull with a fender AB763 Circuit using a 12At7 at the PI and a EF86 at v1.  Hum is a problem with building, so a humdinger is needed.  It is not a clean amp and uses switching caps for tonal changes.  The amp has no tonestack.

I did it because I have a lot of the tubes.  Running the voltages as suggested on the 2A3 datasheet, the EF86 slams the PI pretty hard.  NOt a lot of watts, so not a lot of headroom.  Very unique breakup.

I would never buy the parts to build them if I did not have them.  There are better proven guitar amps, but this one is has that 1940's tubey tone.  Very fat.

Offline eleventeen

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Re: other input tubes?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 01:55:15 pm »
Let's also not forget that to run these tubes, you are typically talking about a 45 lb power transformer.


And probably a 12 lb choke.



AND $15/ea ceramic sockets.


That require 2" (guess) holes in the chassis (really, really tough to cut out) 

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: other input tubes?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 02:02:53 pm »
Let's also not forget that to run these tubes, you are typically talking about a 45 lb power transformer.


And probably a 12 lb choke.



AND $15/ea ceramic sockets.


That require 2" (guess) holes in the chassis (really, really tough to cut out)
Sockets are about $5 on ebay, but you are correct about the transformers.  I restore old Giant Radios and have a lot of parts.  The Power Transfromer from an old Hammond Tone Cabinet HR-40 will work, but it is also inductor input so you have to get everything.

It would cost a fortune to buy everything needed new.  They do make great SE amps and sound wonderful playing old vinyl.

 


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