DIY Stereo Kits or Plans?

[Mook]

Anyone familiar with any DIY stereo kits (Dynakit, MacIntosh, or otherwise)??

Used to be WAY more stuff 20 decades ago......but now all I can find are AudioNote kits, Dyna kits, and some cheap stuff (Velleman kits)

Ideas?


Mook

[sluckey]

Used to be WAY more stuff 20 decades ago

Are you sure 'bout that?   

[MakerDP]

Here's a great place to start...

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/tubes.htm

[Toxophilite]

The early 1800s were the heydey of DIY stereo tube amps!

[Mook]

Used to be WAY more stuff 20 decades ago

Are you sure 'bout that?   

Actually, yeah.   For guitar stuff, it's doubled, but for stereo, it's not as prevalent these days......at least not what I could find.    I used to visit a TON of tube links that are now defunct.

There used to be lots of DIY stereo kits out there.    The best I can find now, is Dyna Kits at Triode Electronincs.

Used to be a lot of Japanese HIGH END stereo kits out there......no longer.....

Mook

[Glennjeff]

http://oddwattaudio.com/owproducts.html

[Mook]

http://oddwattaudio.com/owproducts.html

Excellent!   Now *this* is what I'm talking about!!!     ;-)

[sluckey]

Used to be WAY more stuff 20 decades ago

Are you sure 'bout that?   

Actually, yeah.   For guitar stuff, it's doubled, but for stereo, it's not as prevalent these days......at least not what I could find.    I used to visit a TON of tube links that are now defunct.

There used to be lots of DIY stereo kits out there.    The best I can find now, is Dyna Kits at Triode Electronincs.

Used to be a lot of Japanese HIGH END stereo kits out there......no longer.....

Mook

I guess you missed the joke.  20 decades is 200 years. Electricity wasn't even around the neighborhood at that time. Stereo has only been around for ≈60 years.

[eleventeen]

Well, they had stereo horses.

[Mook]

Used to be WAY more stuff 20 decades ago

Are you sure 'bout that?   

Actually, yeah.   For guitar stuff, it's doubled, but for stereo, it's not as prevalent these days......at least not what I could find.    I used to visit a TON of tube links that are now defunct.


Ok....ya got me......meant 2 decades ago.....



There used to be lots of DIY stereo kits out there.    The best I can find now, is Dyna Kits at Triode Electronincs.

Used to be a lot of Japanese HIGH END stereo kits out there......no longer.....

Mook

I guess you missed the joke.  20 decades is 200 years. Electricity wasn't even around the neighborhood at that time. Stereo has only been around for ≈60 years.

[sluckey]

Ok....ya got me......meant 2 decades ago.....

I figured that's what you meant. I was in a rare chatty mood yesterday. When I read that I just had to take a poke. All in fun.

[John]

I was in a rare chatty mood yesterday.

Beer'll do that.

[PRR]

> Stereo has only been around for ~~60 years.

Bell and Disney did a lot of work with multi-channel (often 3) record/playback, reported in 1940. (IIRC Fantasia had more speakers but just 3 tracks, switched.)

Stereo aircraft detectors (often passive) were used by all sides in WWII, and earlier:

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/COMMS/ear/ear.htm

Multi-channel non-military audio also has a very extensive pre-history; things get invented before their time over and over again.

Yes, stereo LPs were developed through the 1950s, around 6 decades back. By 1957 all the eager-adopters were scrambling to add another channel to fine mono Hi-Fi systems.

[kagliostro]

Aircraft detectors

never seen before, very interesting 

many thanks for sharing PRR

Franco

[Ritchie200]

Per PRR's comment.  Another example of the many reasons I think Disney was one of the great inventors and visionaries of our time.  What he lacked in technical knowledge, he surrounded himself with people who had the expertise and pushed them to achieve his goals.  As you will see below, his pursuit of sonic perfection resulted in losing money with this movie (until years later) - but was the precursor of the multichannel systems we enjoy today 70 years later.  Not to mention the 400 tubes that made up the system!  Another detail not mentioned was when Disney contracted with the newly established Hewlett-Packard for their oscillators, it came at a crucial time in their history with some much needed capital.  Without it would have doomed the fledging company.  Although RCA got props for the supposed development - the system was entirely designed by Disney and his staff.  RCA had limited input on later designs.  The reason for RCA's "stamp" was Walt needed outside help and funding to get it to the theaters.  Several companies were in the running - some with lucrative deals.  In the end, only RCA reproduced their efforts and design to Walt's satisfaction - even though the sponsorship deal was pretty bad.  A war was going on and money was tight.  Walt chose quality over cost.  Gee, what a refreshing concept....  Another example of Disney's visionary status is how he described the "conventional sound systems at the time" - pretty much described a Tele of later years... 

Sorry about the formatting.



Recording the Fantasia Soundtrack (1939)

A year after recording The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Stokowski signed an 18-month contract with Disney to conduct the remaining pieces for Fantasia and the process began in earnest. Fascinated with the rich sound he heard from the playbacks at Culver Studios, Disney felt the conventional sound systems at the time sounded too tinny and inadequate for the experience he wanted Fantasia to be. "We know...that music emerging from one speaker behind the screen sounds thin, tinkly and strainy. We wanted to reproduce such beautiful masterpieces...so that audiences would feel as though they were standing at the podium with Stokowski", he said. The goal was to reproduce a full symphony orchestra with its normal volume range and acoustic output in the theatre. The set-up used for the recording of The Sorcerer's Apprentice was abandoned, and it was decided to record with the Philadelphia Orchestra, which Stokowski had directed from 1912 to 1938, at the Academy of Music concert hall in Philadelphia, the orchestra's home known for its good acoustics.

The recording for Fantasia began in April 1939 for seven weeks. In the sessions, 33 microphones placed around the orchestra captured the music which was transferred onto eight optical recording machines located in the hall's basement. Several safety measures were enforced to prevent the risk of fire as the Academy was constructed of wood. A maximum of 18 rolls of raw nitrate film stock were allowed in the venue at any one time, with a film delivery truck parked outside the hall being converted into a storage unit for a sufficient quantity of film. Six of the channels recorded different sections of the orchestra which provided a "close-up" of the instruments – cellos and basses, violins, violas, brass, woodwinds and tympani – while the seventh channel recorded a mixture of the first six and the eighth captured the overall sound of the orchestra at a distance. For the necessary conventional mono mix required in order for the film to play in the vast majority of American theatres who were unable to afford the cost of conversion to stereo in 1940, the seventh channel was merely lifted intact and duplicated onto its own isolated master, while the eighth track was used in an equally crude and early attempt at surround sound

[Ritchie200]

Click Track

Instead of being created prior to recording in order to assist the musicians with staying in step as they do today, a ninth channel added later provided the click-track function to help the animators time their drawings to the music. Each microphone was channeled to a central switching panel, where an operator would read the score and mute those that were not in use to keep noise and leakage to a minimum. Engineers in the basement used headphones for sound mixing and cathode ray oscilloscopes for level indicators, while those who picked up the distant orchestra sound used horn monitoring. In the 42 days of sessions, over ninety miles of sound track were recorded. After being developed, the film was shipped to the Disney studios in Burbank, California where tone and other adjustments were made prior to mastering. The nine recorded sound tracks were then mixed into four – three for the music, voices and special effects and the fourth for control of the volume of the first three.

Pan pot and Togad deviceThe average monaural sound system around the time of the production of Fantasia had a number of disadvantages. Their limited range in volume was ineffective as symphonic music was impaired by excessive ground noise and amplitude distortion. Their single point source of sound, though suitable for dialogue and action at the centre of the screen, caused music and sound effects to suffer from acoustic phase distortion which is absent when sound originates from multiple sources. Led by William E. Garity, the chief audio engineer at the Disney studios, technicians developed a multi-channel reproduction system that was dubbed Fantasound, a process that was to be a desirable alternative sound system.


The first task was to create the illusion of sound "moving" across neighboring speakers. It was found that by placing two speakers roughly 20 feet apart it was possible to produce a "moving" sound, but the effect could not be achieved through simple volume control. The problem was solved with a three-circuit differential junction network named the "pan pot" (panoramic potentiometer), that allowed sound to progressively travel using constant fades with a left, center and right speaker configuration. The second issue was dynamic range, the difference in volume between the loudest and quietest sounds. The dynamic range of typical film soundtracks at the time was limited to a poor signal-to-noise ratio of about 40 dB. This was tackled by increasing the volume during loud passages and reducing it during quiet ones, to which the dynamic range would increase. A tone-operated gain adjusting device, or "Togad," was built that varied the volume of the replayed sound under the control of a tone of varying amplitude. This device was the predecessor of the automated mix-down systems found in modern recording studios.

[Ritchie200]

Ten different Fantasound setups were built and tested during its development. As many as several hundred designs were detailed on paper, each with different equipment combinations. The first set-up that was constructed, the Mark I system, used a left, center and right speaker placed across the stage with two in each corner at the back of the auditorium. It used two sound channels, one directed at the stage center (or "screen") speaker, while the second could travel around the remaining four across the room smoothly using a manually controlled four-circuit panpot. The following Mark II configuration used a third sound channel and three additional speakers, two placed on each side wall of the house and a third placed in the middle of the ceiling, all with a manual six-circuit panpot. By the time the Mark II system was devised, the control of the sound system was too complex for a single operator. To avoid such difficulties, the Mark III system was developed to study the effects of a pilot tone-control track. The configuration was a single-channel Togad expander, controlled by either an oscillator or a tone track. The Mark IV system was identical to the eight-speaker, three-track Mark II system except that a Togad replaced manual control. It was installed at Disney's Hyperion studios in the summer of 1939 and was used for sound and music department research until Disney's relocation to Burbank in 1940. The equipment for this system required a floor space of about 35 feet by 4 feet and used nearly 400 vacuum tubes.

The Mark V system, the first installed at Burbank, was in operation for one day. Though the equipment operated correctly, it failed because the personnel could not remember the correct configuration from one rehearsal to the next. The crew then developed the simpler Mark VI setup that consisted of three stage speakers, three program tracks and a three-tone control track. The first serious dubbing of Fantasia was attempted on this system. The Mark VII was the first to be manufactured by RCA that closely resembled the Mark VI, but included tone rectifier modifications. The Mark VIII system was a rearranged version of the Mark VII. A log-log tone rectifier designed by RCA replaced the linear tone rectifier used in the Mark VII. The second dubbing of Fantasia was done through this system. Following the installation of a stand-by channel, this equipment was installed in New York City for the film's premiere. Two further systems were developed after the film's opening. The arrangement of the Mark IX setup was changed and two sets of rear speakers were manually switched in to supplement or replace the left and right front speakers at several points in the film. In the Mark X, the switching and level changes in the rear speakers are done automatically using a thyratron and mechanical relay system operated by means of notches on the edge of the film. This was developed by Disney engineers C. A. Hisserich and Tickner. Disney became an early customer for the newly established Hewlett-Packard company when it ordered eight of its Model 200B oscillators to test the Fantasound systems.

[Ritchie200]

Fantasia debuted as a roadshow theatrical release under Walt Disney Productions at The Broadway Theatre in New York on November 13, 1940. The film was shown in only 14 theatres, as the installation of equipment required for Fantasound at each venue was costly. Twelve of which were in legitimate theaters converted for the purpose and not movie theaters due to the need to close the theater during installation of Fantasound. Along with its large budget, Fantasia was unable to make a profit during its initial release.


Fantasound never expanded beyond the initial roadshow engagements in New York, Los Angeles (where the automatic Mark X system was used), Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Detroit, San Francisco, Baltimore, Washington, Minneapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Eight of the roadshow engagements used the Mark IX systems. Garity and RCA's Watson Jones later gave these reasons:

• The amount of equipment required and the time necessary to make the installation.[/l][/l]

Because of the time element, attractive theaters were not available to Disney, as the first-class houses in the various communities had established policies and the installation of the equipment would generally require keeping the theater "dark" for a few days.

The advent of wartime conditions precluded the possibility of developing mobile units that would have lessened installation time and costs.

The variation in the regulations throughout the country, both as to operating personnel and local ordinances, materially affected the operating and installation costs.

Limited space in many projection rooms was a major problem.

In April 1941, RKO Radio Pictures acquired the distribution rights of Fantasia and replaced the Fantasound soundtrack with a mono soundtrack. The film got a wide release in 1942 as a double feature with Valley of the Sun with its duration cut to 80 minutes. All but one of the Fantasound systems were dismantled and contributed to the war effort.

On February 26, 1942, an Academy Honorary Award was given to Disney, Garity, Hawkins and RCA for their "outstanding contribution to the advancement of the use of sound in motion pictures through the production of Fantasia".

[Ritchie200]

Legacy

Fantasound marked the first use of the click track, overdubbing of orchestral parts, and simultaneous multi-track recording. Almost a fifth of the film's budget was spent on musical recording techniques. Fantasia was re-released multiple times, with the full-length version making a return to theatres in 1946. Stereo sound was not restored until its 1956 release when it was also presented in SuperScope, an anamorphic widescreen format similar to CinemaScope. To create the stereo soundtrack the original tracks were transferred across telephone lines from the optical Fantasound equipment to the new magnetic recording equipment. These were housed in separate buildings and could not be brought together. This wire transfer resulted in some loss of treble response, but the copies retained the original dynamic range.

For Fantasia‍ '​s 1982 issue, the original recordings were abandoned all together and a completely new soundtrack was recorded using digital stereo technology in Dolby Stereo, conducted by Irwin Kostal, who later composed in Mickey's Christmas Carol (1983).

The original soundtrack returned when Fantasound was also recreated in Dolby Stereo for the film's 1990 theatrical release. Disney audio engineer Terry Porter spent six months restoring the Stokowski soundtrack. He used remastering technology to remove some 3,000 pops from the four-track magnetic copy from 1955, with tools also used on phasing, hiss and distortion. "I proposed to management that we could piece the soundtrack together...in a way that re-created the impact of the original roadshow. When we play it back...it exactly simulates the way their equipment played in the theaters...back then." The result, named "Fantasound 90," was only set up in two theaters, one each in New York City and Los Angeles. The six-channel surround print that Porter created was also used as the basis for the master soundtrack of the film's DVD release in 2000.

[thermion]

Wow Ritchie, nice historical perspective. Thanks for that!

[sluckey]

I just got an email from AES about hifi tube amp kits. Take a look.

[jjasilli]

Another alternative is to refurbish a vintage amp: fisher; harmon cardon citation ii; etc.

[DummyLoad]

http://www.triodeelectronics.com/ampsandgear.html


dynaco ST70, ST35, and MkIII kits.


http://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/newhardware.html


preamps, headphone amps, etc...


couple of mkIII monoblocks and an akido preamp and you're set.   


--pete

[lego4040]

http://parksaudiollc.com/index.html I built there Budgie amp and was floored at the sound. Shannon who is the engineer and designer at this site has the bigboy monoblocks,dynaco's and various models. His PCB's are nice enough to put in a pictureframe alone. I used EDCOR Trannies all around and the wait was only three weeks to build and thee cost for three of them was less then one Mercury

[PRR]

> Stereo has only been around for ˜60 years.

Aside from aircraft detection, Bell Labs experiments, and Disney's Fantasia....

I have been trawling old AUDIO mags.

Commercial production of stereo tapes and players in late 1956. However the early ones used a second mono head mounted 1.5" (or 1.8" or 1.6125") over from the existing mono head. Even if there had been a standard distance, phase coherence was improbable; but golly, *two* channels! Stacked (two in one) heads were already coming, but the market was chaotic, tape was 4X the price of disk, and only bleeding-edge enthusiasts bought into stereo tape.

November 1957: JBL's Ranger-Paragon stereo speaker is reported to be 18 feet long (correction, 8'10"), gave "a marvelous spread of sound".

The real butt-kick for home stereo was the stereo LP. Announced in late 1957, Westrex 3A Stereophonic Disc Recorder head featured on cover of STEREO Jan 1958. Competing systems quickly worked-out, and disks/systems followed the next year.

Feb 1958, Radio Shack was offering their $19.95 speaker "2 for stereo" at $37.50. (No other stereo gear listed.) (AR2 was $96, each, at Harvey's.)

April 1958: Audio Fidelity has "no less than four Stereodiscs on the market". Fairchild released a "248 stereo preamplifier" which was very clearly two 245 mono preamps plus a stereo volume control in one cabinet. Pilot's SP-215 was a more integrated stereo preamp but very costly. Also Ampex and Sony(!)/Superscope offered stereo tape machines with stereo speaker systems. May, Bogen offers a 2*12W integrated stereo amplifier DB212, Fisher 400 stereo control preamp, Scott "StereoDaptor" passive switch and volume knob.

Stereo FM was in FCC-hell for a long time (AM+FM simulcasts were tried for years); yet in 1958 there was a tuner with "multiplex" jack to go to a hoped-for stereo demultiplexer. (I remember Fisher external stereo decoders.)

2015-1956= 59 years, give/take.
2015-1958= 57 years, give/take.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Audio-Magazine.htm

BTW: 17 June 1955 (60 years last month), the ISO agreed to shift Tuning A from 435cps to 440cps. Handel had used 422, Mozart 421; London Philharmonic was up to 455 by 1874, but in 1879 Adelina Patti flatly(sic) refused to sing at that pitch. 1834 a bunch of physicists proposed 440, but nobody cared. 1858 the French commissioned a study and got 435. English then used both 439 (Philharmonic) and 452.5 (Military).

[Packerswin14]

I built one of these a few years ago.  http://www.s5electronics.com/thome.html


It's a circuit board, pretty simple to assemble, and doesn't have the feel of assembling a point-to-point project.  But it sounds great.  When I attached a pair of 1960's The Fisher speakers to it, it even made my ipod sound good.  It's plenty loud to fill a big room if you put some vintage high efficiency speakers with it-- put some crappy modern speakers on it and you'll have much less volume.  I keep it in my bedroom, it doesn't take much space, and you can get spare/replacement tubes for it dirt cheap.  I've never needed a new tube, but I do have a couple spares. 


It allows for you to get creative about a cabinet or housing, or leave it totally out in the air so you can enjoy the glow at night.


Again, I have to say I've enjoyed rebuilding Dynacos and a Pilot Hifi amp, a couple of jukeboxes more than building this kit, but what I ended up with was worth the dough.

I built the 16 watt stereo amplifier, and added the tone control, which I found very useful.  The only complaint is I never put any kind of creative cabinet or box around it, and it isn't an easy thing to dust when you're cleaning, I have to bring it down to the workshop to blow off the dust.  And the price has gone up since I built mine 3 or 4 years ago.