reverb vs delay

[tubenit]

Ironically, I have never played thru a delay pedal before. What exactly is the difference between reverb and delay?  And what would be a good delay pedal?

With respect, Tubenit

[LooseChange]

You never played through a delay pedal...pedal...pedal...pedal...pedal???

Any unit made by Boss is a good start.  I also like the old Memory Man delay pedals.

[OldHouseScott]

I've got the Boss DD-something or other and it works fine for me. Behringer makes some cheaper pedals, but they are in plastic housings. If you're not hard on your stuff, they will work OK. You might however look at something like the Digitech Digidelay, or the Line6 Echo Park. Those both have tap tempo, which could be handy in a live setting.

I never use reverb, it just seems to muddy up the sound. I prefer delay to add some persistance to the sound while maintaining the clarity.

Reverb is like playing in a reflective room -- like a cave. Delay is like playing out in the open, but next to a big wall or a couple of big walls. You get the initial sound and then a bit later you get the coherent reflection off the wall(s). Does that make sense?

You can even make a whole style out of playing with delay, just ask Andy Summers or the Edge (or Brian May, etc).

[EKDENTON]

Some of the delay pedals now allow you to record a short section say 60 seconds or more then play that recorded section any time while you are playing live. Makes it nice that you can be playing a rythm part and record as you are playing, then while playing start the loop cycle and your rythm part keeps looping while you play a lead part live. Can't do anything like that with reverb.
The Digitech I use has a setting where the first delay is normal the rest have reverb added to them. Or I can shorten the delay time to make it sound pretty much like slapback or reverb, or get really crazy and make the echos get louder as they decay rather than quieter. 1 new battery for every 4 hrs of play.
it draws 4.8watts.

[Bassmanster]

I'm getting into slap echo using my Ibanez delay pedal bigtime.  Otherwise, delay seems like something you want to use sparingly.  It's their cheap pedal; the silver one with the retracting knobs, but the echo mode is wonderfully lo-fi and can be made to oscillate.  Great pedal for the money.

I want to find or build an analog delay pedal now for slapback since it seems like the digital pedals eat batteries, including the Ibanez and I don't like extra wires.

[Bassmanster]

Looks like the Tonepad Rebote 2.5 is pretty good.  True bypass, doesn't munch batteries.  Digital...ok.
BYOC's is a clone of that, but it's being replaced in Jan.

On the DIY list.

[Dynaflow]

 I've got a rocktron Short timer that I like, does long enough delays for this old guy.. Slapback is hip, set for twang, get some slapback delay going and do your best Scotty Moore Mystery Train.. Yeah baby.. Delay that trails a bit longer is pretty cool for playing heavier rock lead like lines and also if you want to be like the EDGE its a must have. Theres lots of them but fo' casual use the digital ones from Boss are probably sufficient IMHO.

Regards,

Dyna

Ps: On yeah, if you tweak the delay time knobs while playing you can get cool space noises...  ;D

[Bassmanster]

Exactly; my Tele sounds incredible with slapback.  With that sound you can play weird stuff like diminished chords and get away with it for some reason.

I noticed that Rocktron; I'll have to investigate it some more.  Not too pricey which I like.

[thermion]

reverb - i prefer tubes driving springs. the venerable fender 6g15 totally does it for me. unless it's a high-end lexicon or something similar digital just isn't there yet.
delay - i recently held my own mini "shoot-out" between a few of the more popular boxes. i tried 3 maxon offerings (ad-9, ad-80, and ad-900), compared to both a vintage and new ibanez ad-9. the boss rv-5 was there too as well as the newish carl martin red repeat. the maxons and both ibanez pedals are really similar sounding (surprised?) with short, warm echoes (great for pink floyd covers). these circuits don't really offer a long delay setting but what they do, they do well. the price range roughly dictates the sound quality of the repeats. the boss has more variety of settings and covers the most territory for the buck. like all boss pedals, it's a good value. the one i walked out with was the red repeat- there are some real nice sounds in this digital pedal. it's based on the delayla if you're familiar. the time controls a wide range from slapback to almost 1sec. the controls are sensitive and the circuit has good touch to it, if that means anything. tones can be set from hi-fi clean and spanky to pure mud. also, it was at least half the price of the ibanez/maxon set. if i had the chance i'd like to try the new eventide delay or a moog.

[Bassmanster]

The CM RR looks super cool.  How's the battery munch factor?

[Dynaflow]

 Most delays (I've noticed anyway including my rocktron) eat batteries like it thinks you own a battery factory. AC adapters highly recommended from my perspective anyway.

Regards,

Dyna

[thermion]

the RR sucks dry even costly 9v with a quickness. i run mine off a dc brick - at the rate you go thru batteries you could buy a brick in about a year.  

[1911A1]

The Boss DD series are great sounding delays. They are kinda clean and sterile, the repeats are as bright as the original sound, but they're still excellent pedals. They eat batteries like a football team gulps Gatorade. If you can find a Boss, EH, Arion or Ibanez analog delay, the repeats are warmer and if you set the feedback (# of repeats) to maximum and the delay time to minimum, the pedal will begin to oscillate something like a synth and you can vary the tone of the oscillation by adjusting the delay time.

[billcreller]

I use a cheapie Zoom reverb/delay pedal which eats batteries if I use them, like 25 minutes and they are done-for. I wire my amps with a ac receptacle in the cab for effects and whatever else, so I can use a wall wart.

[2twang2]

I have a vintage Ibanez AD-9 Analog Delay. Being short on coin, I hunted on ebay for a long time and waited for the right deal. As described in other posts, it has a nice warm sound and is built like a little tank.

I have a very small pedal board and run all my pedals off a Godlyke Power All wall wart.

Some day, I'd like to build a tube reverb unit.

[rafe]

i'm glad i read this post i dusted off the dsd boss and put it to a SE maggie nice ....i like reverb but keep it low usually below 3 higher than that it's not what i'm after .....the delay i have it on a fast single slap back now and i like that but hell there is a lot more in these little boxes i try to keep it earthly though  [smiley=asthanos.gif]Rafe

[hotguit]

T-REX Replica Delay, The best (IMO) ;)
BYE
Hot

[Platefire]

What happened Tubenit, no comeback on this?

As I guy who started off playing on amps with no reverb in the 60's, finally got into fender amps in the 70's with reverb--other reverb amps through the 80's only buying my first DOD anolog Delay pedal late 80's that I still have and use at church every week. I now have a:

Cheap Areion Digital Delay $30.00 new
Line 6 Delay Modeler/Looper
Boss RV-3 Combination Reverb/Delay

This day and time I can be perfectly happy with an amp without reverb
if I have a delay pedal. I only like a short delay but to me it adds depth
and livelyness that a reverb can't produce. I leave the delay on all the time. If an amp has reverb I will run it on about 2 (very light reverb) with the delay pedal on also. Even my cheapest delay sounds good to me. I have about 9 amps on hand and only my Accomplice has reverb. I guess I could live without delay if I had to but until then I'll plunk--[size=9]plunk[/size]---plunk

[tubenit]

Hey Platefire,

Guess I was kinda slow on the response.    ;D  A sure sign of aging.

I still have never played thru a delay pedal but I'm starting to figure out what it is because of Mixcraft.  I certainly the sound of it better than reverb in the Mixcraft effects.  However, I like the sound of my reverb on all 3 my amps so much that I can't imagine not using reverb at this point.  I think it adds some richness and warmth to it. But I'm using the single 12AX7 type instead of the Fender type and only a slight amount.

Hopefully I will get a chance to try a delay pedal at some point.  I've got an old Ibanez Flanger and a  Boss tremolo (probably less than 2 hrs use) that I'd swap out for one.
 ;)

Thanks for all the replies.  I had been following them.
Tubenit

[Platefire]

tubenit

  I'm assuming Mixcraft is a computer recording program with effects?
I can understand your reliance on reverbs, the old standard. I discovered delay quite by accident from using a small Peavey Audition 20 to play at church events where in a lot of cases was just me and piano, so I stuck a delay in there since that amp had  no reverb. That was before I got into tube amps and that little amps sounded pretty good with my Les Paul and was a travel delight because of it's size. I now use my Champ in that slot.
  Anyway somewhere along the line I got hooked on the sound of a delay into a dry amp and actually prefer it over reverb now--so my brain has been completely re-programed, har! It is different than reverb in that it jumps out (delayed note and repeats) with your picking according to your setting where reverb is more contant in the mix. That might not be described right?, but you sure need to give it a try. Platefire

BTW-I always just use a short delay or slap back that seems to give a kind of reverb type ambience plus a spread of the note that to me is the perfect lead sound especially clean. Sometimes with distortion delay gets a little messey-- then just reverb or dry is better suited.

[tubenit]

Platefire,

Always good to hear from you.  I am getting a digital delay pedal that I am trading for, .... so I will let you all know my opinion of it sometime in the future.

I know Fender is considered the standard of reverb by many, .........
having said that I like the 12Ax7 one tube reverb design I use alot better.  It's not surf zoney or trebly.  It has a more mid warm lush reverb tone in my opinion and I use reverb pretty sparingly.  I am coloring the sound more than emphasizing reverb.

I do like surf music quite a bit but it's not what I can play, so I am not knocking it at all.   I was a pretty big fan of the Ventures back in their hayday and still like Ronnie Earl's reverb tone too.

It will be interesting to have that reverb delayed.  Thanks for the thoughts.  Wished I could hear you play live Platefire. I'll bet you get some great tone with great licks!

Best regards,  Tubenit

[Platefire]

Tubenit

What kind of delay have you got coming? Boy! Life as you've know it
in the past is about to change! It will be like the man in the hospital
that was in a wreck and he was laying it bed with his hat resting on his stomach--and the nurse said--- why have you got that hat??? He said, the last thing I heard was somebody said "Hold On To Your Hat".
Just kidding---I didn't even much like a delay first time I used it, but it sure grew on me.

I am going to have to order a reverb tank for my AB763 with Vibroverb type tremolo modeled  after Doug's design except one channel and 6V6's. It's kind of compressed to fit in a Peavey Pacer chassis. Since your a connoisseur of fine reveb, what tank would you recomend. You've probably already seen it but attached is the layout for your reference. I'll be looking forward to your first impression of the delay. Hold on to your hat!!  :DPlatefire

[tubenit]

Doug's reverb tanks are really nice and they're 16.75" long.  

Would that fit?  Not sure if the 18.5" is the outside of the cab or inside?

If you need a short tank maybe something like:
P-R8AB2A1B

10 ohm input, 2,575 ohm output, medium delay, grounded input, grounded output connectors, horizontal, open side down mounting. Used in Mesa Boogie amps.


Tubenit

[Platefire]

Tubenit

Yeah the 18 1/2" is inside the cab, so it would fit. Do you know what brand tank that is? So the two spring without the dwell control would be the one? I've already bought some RCA female jacks for reverb and foot switch---Your apparently talking about another type for connection...Platefire

[tubenit]

I don't know what brand Hoffman carries but I like it alot. It sounds really good to me. I've bought a number of them and all of them sounded pretty sweet to me.

Actually I wasn't talking about anything ......... I simply cut and pasted some info on the smaller style reverb tank.
 ;) ;D

I use the female RCA jacks to connect the tank. Since I always prefer reverb to not reverb, I have never used a foot pedal for off/on.  But then again, I don't use much and it colors the tone as much as it reverbs stuff.

With respect, Tubenit

[Lucid_Alice]

I played a 1987 with an echoplex in front of it for many years. I use digital delay now (actually a multi effects pedal), no tapes, noise, or heads to clean. If I could only have one effect I would pick delay. I like the raw, in your face sound and then the delayed depth and fill. It's the best effect ever invented.

I'm not good at describing it but when you have picked a note and are transitioning to the next one, your last note is still going on. When you pick the next note it is fresh, on top, and in front of the last one... not burried in the muddle like reverb. Don't use too much until you really get the feel for it. Then you can reach for greater depths without junking up your sound. Don't use a lot of repeats. You want it to die out like a straight amp would in a medium to large hall. That makes it more transparent and natural. If you get it set just right you'll barely notice it after a few minutes playing... until you turn it off. Then you'll want to turn it back on!

[Platefire]

Lucid Alice

  Looks like your opinion on delay is like mine. Never had an echoplex. Closest thing to that I had was a Univox tape delay that I got in the 70's new and kept it up to 2000 when I traded it for a Silvertone 1482 amp. One of my favioite delays has been a digitech was my first digital delay but it went out several years back and I got the Line 6 Delay Modeler--but on the low end my $30.00 Airon can provide all my basic delay needs---for a cheap pedal is surprising. My 80's Dod
analog is also mighty fine. Boss RV-3 is OK for a combination reverb and delay. I know there is some high end multi effects processors/modlers out there now days but I've been pretty amazed at what I've been able to get out of my old Zoom 707 pedal---especially for direct recording. Going back even further, I have an old ART ECC (Effects command Center) that I've recorded some pretty warm sounds off of. Platefire

[tubenit]

OK, I got a delay pedal by trading an old Ibanez Flanger for it in an even trade.

I like the delay pedal alot. It really sounds very cool playing slow blues lead work and it sounds super for rhythm too. It tends to fill the sound out more than color the tone which the reverb does more of, IMO.

I can hear the difference between delay and reverb, but I find it hard to put words to accurately explain it. Playing the delay with a touch of reverb sounds best to me.  

The two pedals I envision using the most are my Ibanez Mosfet Distortion which I like better than my TubeScreamer and this delay pedal.

Tubenit

[Dynaflow]

 Yeah, those to effects (distortion or overdrive) and Delay are my favorites especially if I have to cover a lot of territory myself (like say in a trio for example). I think the only way I can describe delay vs echo is to use natural examples we hear in nature. Reverb sounds like a cave of varying sizes whereas a delay sounds more like shouting into a canyon. Thats the best way I can describe it. Glad to hear you like it though, its truly a great effect.

Regards,

Dyna

[Ritchie200]

Alice, I think I still have some old tape loops laying around in a box!  What noisy things they were!

Back in the 80's I funded much of Tom Scholz's retirement by buying all the SR&D gear I could find.  I've got the Chorus/Delay and the Stereo Echo and they are phenominal.  They are not meant to do the Brian May stuff.  THey were meant to give lush studio quality fullness to your guitar.  I have not heard another unit come close.  ANd now they are as rare a hens teeth.

Jim

ps Fender amps had reverbs? ;)

[Greasehorse]

I just got my first off of Ebay..An Ibanez soundtank cheapie. It can be modded with a simple 4164 memory chip (if I can find one) for more delay. It sounds neat and will fill many Saturday nights noodling around until I figure out just how to use it...space invaders!!!!

[GuitarPilot65]

Wish I'd kept my Boss DD-3.  It was SOOO clean and easy to use.

[tubetwang]

bought a Rocktron Short Timer a month ago.

Not good in front of a hi-gain amp...noisy hiss...had to change all the pre-amp tubes to lower values.

I dropped the delay on the floor by accident and it stopped working...could not fix it...kept it for parts.

Buying a Carl Martin Red Repeat tomorrow.

I only need a short delay.

Merry Christmas to all

[ampgeek]

Maybe that drop was destiny!  Now (hopefully) you can go back to your standard tube lineup.

Seriously consider DIY for a replacement.  I have built a whole bunch of the General Guitar Gadgets offerings and they have all been well worth it!

Their take on the PT-80 is excellent IMHO.  VERY clean and lush at 18V.  The kit comes with an on board charge pump so it can be run with a 9V battery.  It is digital but I would be very hard pressed to tell.

And....a very Merry Christmas to you and yours!
Cheers,
Dave O.

[thermion]

Buying a Carl Martin Red Repeat tomorrow

for the money you'd be hard pressed to find a better dlay. just don't get too stompy with the plastic case (only real drawback to the RR).

[tubenit]

Been playing with a band some now using the DD-6 I got in a passive effects loop in my Carolina Blues Rocket, Little Wing Reverb and the Blues Amp.

I like it!  VERY VERY quiet when used in the passive effects loop. However, it's waaayyy too noisey for me in the front end. I probably wouldn't use it at all if I didn't have an effects loop.

Gives the amps a very spacious sound. I am using it with a little bit of reverb which seems to be a nice combination. It really fills out playing chords when you're picking the notes within the chords.

With respect, Tubenit

[duke of earl]

tubenit,

I have a Boss DD20 Gigedelay on my rythym pedalboard and a Carl Martin Delayla for my lead tone pedal board. The Delayla is the best sounding delay pedal I have ever used and I've tried many. Quiet switching and a second tap to simulate a tape echo. Does not suck tone like the Memory Man does. Go try one.