1st time amp builders. A friendly word of caution.

[Paul1453]

If you are just starting out, and have come to this site because that sweet sounding tube amp you want is just too damn expensive, I've got some friendly words of caution for you.  Just because you saw a Youtube video where some kid gets an old stereo and makes a rockin guitar amp, that doesn't mean you will save thousands of dollars trying to do this yourself.  No one is getting rich making tube amps from old junk.  IMO, This hobby is best described as a labor of love.

To begin with, just getting a proper work bench and tools setup is likely to cost you hundreds of dollars.  Then the cost of parts comes in.  Proper transformers, tubes, capacitors, resistors, etc. is likely to set you back a few hundred more.  Now if you've gotten yourself in this far, you'll likely want to test a number of designs out before deciding which one you want to make.  That means you need to set up a breadboard to prototype your circuits, probably another couple hundred in parts and considerable time invested to get that setup.  Then comes the fun part of reading schematics, and tube data sheets.  Prototyping your 1st circuit is going to test your patience.  If you manage to get a circuit to work, without burning up too many expensive parts and or shocking yourself with potentially lethal voltages, you may find you have terrible hum or other sound issues to overcome.  Once you decide you want to make an amp from this circuit, you will find it is not as easy to get those parts laid out and connected inside of the tight confines of an amp housing.  You might find you have spent a grand or more, hundreds of man hours of considerably frustrating troubleshooting, and still don't have that sweet sounding tube amp you wanted.   

Unless you are totally committed to dealing with and overcoming these significant issues, you would probably be better off just saving your time and money and buying that very expensive but sweet sounding tube amp from the music store instead.   

[Toxophilite]

I respectfully and completely disagree
You do not need a proper anything (work bench??? etc) except a soldering iron, a multi-meter and good starting chassis with decent iron (old organ unit)
Most of the other parts are pretty cheap (See Doug's store he has many excellent deals), You do not need to buy "boutique" caps or tubes . I seriously doubt any of the big amp builders of yore were listening to the sound of the caps and tubes they used, they were business men, with bottom lines who purchased on the basis of price and reliability.
Cabinets can be built inexpensively from recycled or found wood and they can sound great.
Speakers can be had inexpensively too. Most 'vintage' speakers that are expensive and popular are cheap pressed basket speakers that are popular simply because they were the cheapest alternative to put in mass produced amplifiers that became famous, they sound great but there are many equally great sounding alternatives


I will agree that it is an investment of time but you might have to invest time spent doing something you enjoy less to make money  to buy that 'sweet sounding expensive amplifier"
You might as well learn something and gain a deep sense of accomplishment and pride in making something with your mind and hands.
Some basic safety precautions are needed, which requires research and happily there are wonderful places like this forum where people will offer guidance to you along the way.


So I say , do your homework, be careful, proceed methodically, and give it a try
I am a complete amateur
I have made several amplifiers for a few hundred dollars investment each and my time
I have personalized excellent sounding amplifiers, a sense of accomplishment, I have added to my store of knowledge. I didn't fork out thousands of dollars on over-priced 'vintage' amplifiers


Sounds like you've had a frustrating experience Paul
You should try making bows
They say with bow-making that you should proceed with much perseverance!..but little hope!

[tubenit]

I can say emphatically that building my own amps has saved me $1000's.  ( say this because I've been able to build several dozen different amps)   I have a Radio Shack 40w soldering iron, a multimeter that I got at Lowe's and zero formal training in electronics.  I solder at a kitchen table and have no workshop for electronics.

Yet ..............

IF you're reasonably intelligent, have common sense, have a willingness to learn, are humble enough to take directions from others, practice safety and are willing to read & do your homework ................. you can build
an amazing sounding amp to your own specs and save money. 

That's my experience and opinion.  With respect, Tubenit

[Paul1453]

I respectfully and completely disagree

I will agree that it is an investment of time but you might have to invest time spent doing something you enjoy less to make money  to buy that 'sweet sounding expensive amplifier"
You might as well learn something and gain a deep sense of accomplishment and pride in making something with your mind and hands.
Some basic safety precautions are needed, which requires research and happily there are wonderful places like this forum where people will offer guidance to you along the way.


So I say , do your homework, be careful, proceed methodically, and give it a try
I am a complete amateur
I have made several amplifiers for a few hundred dollars investment each and my time
I have personalized excellent sounding amplifiers, a sense of accomplishment, I have added to my store of knowledge. I didn't fork out thousands of dollars on over-priced 'vintage' amplifiers

Sounds like you've had a frustrating experience Paul
You should try making bows
They say with bow-making that you should proceed with much perseverance!..but little hope!

I knew that would spark some debate.   

Frustrating experience for me?  No, not really.  Only because for me this is truly a labor of love.  I'm definitely not trying to make money at it.  I spent the weekend building an old Gibson Bronco 6F design in an actual amp housing.  I managed to put together a quite nice sounding 6V6 PP output design with no hum issues.  Even with my old Army training and experience this was not easy.  I thoroughly enjoyed it though!  I was just thinking about how someone new to this with little or no experience, how easily they could have become overwhelmed.  Did my amp work the 1st time I tried it?  Of course not.  Would it have been easy to get frustrated and give up?  Yes! Absolutely.  Tools not expensive?  Well for cheap Chinese junk I guess not, but for high quality tools that make it easier to do a good job?  I still need an adjustable soldering iron / heat gun setup.  I've got two Walmart type soldering irons that make it quite a challenge to get good results soldering.  I'm still lacking in my high wattage resistor supply, and those are not as cheap as one might think.

I just thought that those words might save someone less devoted to this hobby than you and I are, quite a bit of frustration, time, and money.   

[sluckey]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Most people have had a better experience than you have.

[TIMBO]

I agree, with some of what you are saying.
I have had my failures, almost a cupboard full, but each one has gotten me closer to MY ultimate amp.
It is the TIME that is the CHEAP part and recycled parts also help, so at some time in the future I may make a few bucks on the sale of a build.(maybe just enough to invest in another build)

Frustrating, most defiantly. When you have NO electronics training and NO test equipment. ( this is what spurs me on)

I think with this stuff you either "get it" or "you don't"
I have a friend that has got quite a swag of old and new amps, but in his words " I just don't have the BALLS to stick my hand in something that has got 400+ volts in it"

If he loved his amps that much he would take the TIME to understand its workings and be able to maintain them, rather that get someone else to do it.
I think he would enjoy them MORE.

I have completed and rebuilt many amps and fobbed some off as being not that great.
BUT in the hands of an accomplished musician I was floored by there amazing sound.

So, If I was a better guitarist, (taking TIME to learn) I may not be so hard on myself when a build "doesn't sound so great"
YOU EITHER LOVE IT OR YOU DON"T!!!!!!!!

 

[Paul1453]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. Most people have had a better experience than you have.

Now that's funny!   

Your recent "take it to someone more knowledgeable" comment is what got me thinking along these lines to begin with.  Wasn't I the one who said we all had to start somewhere and to give the new guy a chance?   

It's all good, and I'm still having fun tinkering with my pile of junk in the basement.  I'm actually making decent sounding tube amps from that pile of junk now.  And quite inexpensively if you don't count the time spent.  With that said, read the fine print your mileage might vary.   

[Fresh_Start]

With all due respect, the initial post is misguided at best.  Starting out with the idea that your first build should be a customized circuit requiring prototyping is a fool's errand.

I bought a 5F2-A kit, a cheap soldering iron, a good digital multimeter (biggest investment), and built my first amp on the kitchen table.  Literally.  Did I make mistakes?  Of course.  Have I re-built the amp twice since?  Yes.  Is it perfect yet?  No, but I can't tell you how many hours I've played through it.

Bottom line:  start with a Tweed Champ, Princeton or Deluxe.  Maybe an 18Watt variant if you need Marshall, or possibly one of the AX84 designs.  Get a good kit.  A known-good layout is essential => see Doug Hoffman's documentation.  DON'T BOOGER UP THE LAYOUT.  And don't screw around with the circuit until you have the stock one working.

The satisfaction of playing that first chord or lick through an amp you built is fantastic.

After four builds, I had a dedicated workbench, a nice Weller soldering station, an oscilloscope (paid for by 4th amp's owner), the ability to create workable layouts in Visio (with a lot of help from Sluckey & Bnwitt), and enough knowledge to tweak known-good circuits with reasonably predictable results. 

Golf costs a hell of a lot more than this hobby!

Good luck!

Chip

[sluckey]

Your recent "take it to someone more knowledgeable" comment

That comment was made only after it became apparent that highlux had no business being inside a powered amplifier.

I reread all your posts and I'm convinced that you simply tried to tackle this hobby from a poor perspective. Several people, including myself, offered suggestions to point you in a more tried and true direction that might have left you with a little more positive impression of this hobby.

You had no intentions of helping anyone with this thread. It's simply your way of venting for whatever reason. This is a stupid thread!
 

[p2pAmps]

I build amps because:
I like it
It's relaxing
I learn new things
I make new friends
I love hearing what I made
I like being creative
I like seeing just how good I can do it
I like technical things
It is interesting to me

I don't build amps because:
I want to get rich
I want to save money
I don't build them because I need more amps!

I repair amps because:
It's a way for me to buy parts from Doug!
It allows me to buy more tools (Yes, I am a tool junkie - shoot me)
I like meeting guys and seeing their face when they hear what I did
I like restoring anything old

That's all I have to say about that

[p2pAmps]

Your recent "take it to someone more knowledgeable" comment

That comment was made only after it became apparent that highlux had no business being inside a powered amplifier.

I reread all your posts and I'm convinced that you simply tried to tackle this hobby from a poor perspective. Several people, including myself, offered suggestions to point you in a more tried and true direction that might have left you with a little more positive impression of this hobby.

You had no intentions of helping anyone with this thread. It's simply your way of venting for whatever reason. This is a stupid thread!

+1^3

[Ed_Chambley]

Cheaper to buy a Fender Blues Jr than build one.  Where the grind comes in is if you want a Handwired Marshall 1987.  Check the prices and then check the kit price.  The labor of love comes in is you do not get paid much for your time.

That being said, I have always been a DIY type and the "tools" were gotten over time.  I also have a lot of automotive test equipment, but it you are the type of guy who has lived hiring everyone to do things for you and never purchased a tool and want to get into amp building, the first one will cost.

The best way I have found is to get something like a Crate 30 that is not working.  I usually get them for the price less than the speaker and tubes would cost.  Pretty easy to turn it into a an AC30 for a grand total of under $200.  That doesn't include all the tools I have like a Tec Scope, Fluke 87 or digital Weller or big Bertha for chassis soldering.

Most guys who do not have to squat to pee will have a lot of the tools already.

[p2pAmps]

Most guys who do not have to squat to pee will have a lot of the tools already.

I like you Ed 

[Ed_Chambley]

I build amps because:
I like it
It's relaxing
I learn new things
I make new friends
I love hearing what I made
I like being creative
I like seeing just how good I can do it
I like technical things
It is interesting to me

I don't build amps because:
I want to get rich
I want to save money
I don't build them because I need more amps!

I repair amps because:
It's a way for me to buy parts from Doug!
It allows me to buy more tools (Yes, I am a tool junkie - shoot me)
I like meeting guys and seeing their face when they hear what I did
I like restoring anything old

That's all I have to say about that

I agree Mike.  I do for the same reasons that I play.  There are very few guitarists who make a living at doing it and a LOT of guitarists who have very expensive gear.

And it is cheaper than Golf!

[Ed_Chambley]

Most guys who do not have to squat to pee will have a lot of the tools already.

I like you Ed 

Thank you Mike, I like you too.  Now give me some sugar.

[p2pAmps]

Most guys who do not have to squat to pee will have a lot of the tools already.

I like you Ed 

Thank you Mike, I like you too.  Now give me some sugar.

I only take my friendship so far buddy!

[p2pAmps]

Seriously though Paul1453, it's about the journey not the end game.  Building for most of us is a hobby or something we enjoy.  Shoot, I have buddies that drop 50K on a Bass boat and barely catch a fish!  But they have fun and they are into it.

Have some fun with it, learn some new stuff, read some books and see where it goes.  I like that more than the dang amps anyway...  but that's me

Cheers!

[DummyLoad]

what's with all this drama?. jeez louise, build shit and post it here. screw all this philosophy crap.

just my 2cents..

--pete

[Ed_Chambley]

Most guys who do not have to squat to pee will have a lot of the tools already.

I like you Ed 

Thank you Mike, I like you too.  Now give me some sugar.

I only take my friendship so far buddy!

You did not catch that.  It is a joke from Rodney Carrington.  Very funny.

[Paul1453]

Your recent "take it to someone more knowledgeable" comment

That comment was made only after it became apparent that highlux had no business being inside a powered amplifier.

I reread all your posts and I'm convinced that you simply tried to tackle this hobby from a poor perspective. Several people, including myself, offered suggestions to point you in a more tried and true direction that might have left you with a little more positive impression of this hobby.

You had no intentions of helping anyone with this thread. It's simply your way of venting for whatever reason. This is a stupid thread!

Still trying to chase people away from using this site I see.

I have a super positive impression of this hobby.  I can't say the same about your comments any more.  You might consider the intentions of your own comments before judging anyone else's.  If you don't like what I post, then don't waste your time responding with your arrogant and bitter diatribe.

Was I venting, seems likely.  But might this not cause someone else to re-examine their own motivations in pursuing this hobby?  This also seems likely to me.

"Stupid is as Stupid does".  Forest Gump

[sluckey]

Thank you Mike, I like you too.  Now give me some sugar.

Patience Ed. It's about time for Floyd to drop by. He'll get a room for y'all.   

[Paul1453]

Seriously though Paul1453, it's about the journey not the end game.  Building for most of us is a hobby or something we enjoy.  Shoot, I have buddies that drop 50K on a Bass boat and barely catch a fish!  But they have fun and they are into it.

Have some fun with it, learn some new stuff, read some books and see where it goes.  I like that more than the dang amps anyway...  but that's me

Cheers!

I totally agree!  I also like your comment on your motivation to build amps.  That is something I can relate too.
Best regards,

[EL34]

All right guys, why do we have two huge drama post in the last few days

We rarely have disturbances of note

New guys, please keep your post on track about your builds and amp repairs

I am closing this thread

[sluckey]

This is where I'm coming from paul. This forum is like Doug's living room to me. No one has a right to be here. We are all guests and should have a respect for that fact. The room next door happens to be Doug's business. The spirit of your self serving original post in this thread not only helps NOBODY but you, it is disrespectful to Doug and to the other guests that like to hang out here. Such a negative post can turn people away, and that not only affects the forum, it affects Doug's livelihood.

Well, I don't like it! And I'm glad you know it.

[EL34]

I thought I closed this post?


Ok, it's closed now