Welcome To the Hoffman Amplifiers Forum

September 07, 2025, 06:13:12 am
guest image
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
-User Name
-Password



Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: 18W amp is super boomy Please help me mod it, schematics and sound clip included  (Read 20899 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Totally remove that 22µF and put a 2µF in it's place. The gain will increase.

He doesn't have the low values yet.  :w2:

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
And another stupid questions. the caps still read 400.

Which caps?

If the amps tubes are hot then when you turn off the amp the tubes will keep drawing current and that should discharge the B+ power supply. 

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
They drained.

Ok.. so the 1M to 220K swap was fantastic. I think the extra gain definitely helped tighten up the bottom end a bit more. It's absolutely playable now.

there's still a little boom, but it's playable and maybe that lower cap in the second gain stage will fix that.

If I wanted to try to add a little more top end, where would I look. that other 1M resistor after the second gain stage? It's actually pretty balanced but there's still a "tone knob" kind of dip. there's a smooth higher end distortion, there's either a dip between 2.5k to 3.5k or some nasally bottom end. some 160hz some like 380hz (i'm using my ears against a tone generator to try to get an idea).

It's actually monumentally better now. Just little tweaks to perfection.

You guys are awesome.

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Glad it's much better.  :icon_biggrin:

If I wanted to try to add a little more top end, where would I look.

Look back/re- read the advice in this thread you already have received, it's there. 

Do your home work.    :icon_biggrin:
 

Offline 2deaf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Now too deaf for 100 watts
Blue circle 1st, then if you need more gain red circle next.  You can go down to 100K or less if you need to, BUT try 220K for the blue 1st, then IF you want/need more, try 220K for the red and listen.
The red has a 470pf bypass on it.  You don't need to take my word for it, look at the layout and the pictures.  You don't want to fool with anything between V1-B and V2.  Everything there has a very good reason to be like that.

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Ok.. so the 1M to 220K swap was fantastic. I think the extra gain definitely helped tighten up the bottom end a bit more. It's absolutely playable now.

Extra gain AT what frequencies?

AND this is AFTER you lifted the 2nd gain stage K bypass cap.

So, if the bottom end was tightened up it's because of the shift of balance in the high/low end response, you caused by changing the K bypass cap and the PI coupling caps (CC).

Slow down.   
 

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
You don't need to take my word for it, ...... 

I take your word for it.  :icon_biggrin:

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Ok.. so the 1M to 220K swap was fantastic. I think the extra gain definitely helped tighten up the bottom end a bit more. It's absolutely playable now.

Extra gain AT what frequencies?

AND this is AFTER you lifted the 2nd gain stage K bypass cap.

So, if the bottom end was tightened up it's because of the shift of balance in the high/low end response, you caused by changing the K bypass cap and the PI coupling caps (CC).

Slow down.   

Yes that helped. I played it after making that change for about 20 min. It was definitely getting there. It was still fairly flubby in comparison to then swapping the 1M to 220k (the blue one). Like the gain knob as it is now at 1:00 is about what the gain knob was when at full, and it's much more pleasant as well.

I'm guessing from 2deaf's comment we should avoid swapping the red one for now and focus on that first gain stage cap. Which I won't have a component for a few days unless my local electronics store has one.

Sorry if I missed some of your posts. There was like a bunch of them thrown at me at once and I got a little confused.

I don't know if that 220 swap has a frequency I can put my finger on with my ears at least. It gave the amp much more distortion in general. I can hear that the clean punch of the boomy stuff is now being clipped a little more, and there's a pleasant overall distortion. When I palm mute, I can hear a little more distortion where as before it was mostly flub or very little distortion. This is with the TS808 on it. Without the TS808 it's a classic rock distortion at best, or like a Mesa Recto withe the gain set at like 11:00 (not tonally, just the feel, recto has much more fizz). If I crank it to max, the flubbiness increases and the overall dynamics gets mushy (kind of expected).

Right now the bottom end sounds a bit like... i dunno ever slam something with a lot low end into a tape machine. It kind of sounds like that. I'd say we need to lose some 160ish hz and below. Then the high end still sounds a bit like it's singing with its nose plugged. It's not extreme, but it's there. I tried it with a couple different guitars to confirm. I don't know if that will balance out when we try a couple caps on that first coupling cap. Turning up the treble or fiddling with the mid does not help this.

The gain knob has a push pull that bypasses the 2nd gain stage. I don't know exactly what parts of the schematic it bypasses. I'll have to look tomorrow (it's 3am lol). I know it bypasses the 2nd gain stage because I asked the original maker of the the amp when I acquired it, but he didn't go into any more detail than that. I am bringing it up because I noticed that going to this clean channel the "boom" problem gets a bit worse. I assume that is some clues that that 1uf cap/1.8k may needs some tweaking.

As for the Earth. It adds a lot of volume. I honestly can't describe what it does. it doesn't like linearly add bottom end or anything, it adds volume and bottom end growl? Turning it down to the extremes sounds bad. Hard to explain. I'll attach some photos as you asked. Right now it sounds best at about 1:30.

It's the second pot from the right. The farthest right is the sky knob. Follow the brown plastic wire to the other photo.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 01:55:58 am by paintballnsk »

Offline tubenit

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10274
  • Life is a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Sounds like you are making progress!   Excellent!

Willabe, that was remarkably kind of you to stay online to help out!  Very generous of your time. Bravo! Perfect for the season of giving.

Regarding 
Quote
Then the high end still sounds a bit like it's singing with its nose plugged

I would try adding an "enhance cap" across the entrance plate resistor (only) to the LTPI.  I find this tends to smooth the highs without removing any of the highs that I can tell. My uneducated guess is that smooths out some oscillations to give a smoother tone in the highs.  I find that 120p to 220p range is usually the best for my amps.  This has been so useful to me that I always include this on LTPI amps.

You may be successful removing some more bass flubbiness by changing the .02 cap into the LTPI to a .01.  That has helped me in the past.

PLEASE follow Willabe's advice of doing one mod at a time!

Regarding discharging amps .............. I strum my guitar while unplugging the amp straight from the wall socket. I keep strumming until the sound completely stops.  After the sound stops, then I turn my on/off switch to off.  This idea is straight from Hoffman's Library of Information.

Keep working on your amp!  You are talented enough of a player that you are worth of having a good amp tone to match your talent.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Thank you tubenit, I really appreciate that.

I got some components at a local electronics store.

First I'm going to replace that 1uf cap after V1A and let you know how it goes.

Would someone please help me understand how to use this calculator? Say for the groups after V1A and V1B?
https://www.ampbooks.com/mobile/amplifier-calculators/cathode-capacitor/

for V1A:
Ck = 1uf
Rk = 1.8
Rg = ?
Rl = ?

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
You can play with that calculator if you want, but you don't need it. Let your ears tell you what you like, not your eye's/mind.  :icon_biggrin:   Your not designing an amp from scratch your just tweaking it.   

Rg = the grid leak R on the next gain stages (V1b) grid to ground.

Rl = the plate R on V1a.

I already wrote this a while back, you have a 1uF K bypass cap on V1a and V2a. Leave those for now.

Change the 22uf K bypass cap on V1b to like a 5uF then listen to the amp, still too much bottom, try a smaller value, like 2uF or 1uF.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 09:04:07 pm by Willabe »

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
I would also try what Tubenit just suggested.  :icon_biggrin:

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
I put in a .47 (was a pain because he didn't put it through, he wrapped it around the poles).

I didn't like it. It added too much distortion and it's no longer smooth it's a little unpleasant actaully. Clean channel isn't clean anymore.

So I'm going to revert it and try changing that .02 to a .01 as he suggested.

It did however fix the problem with the "nasally sound".

« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 10:24:36 pm by paintballnsk »

Offline HotBluePlates

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 13127
Got a jumper wire wire insulated alligator clips on either end? If so, clip one end to ground, and the other end to V1 pin 1. filter cap charge will drain in a controlled way. Leave the jumper in place while you're pawing around in the amp. Remove the jumper when you're done and ready to power the amp up again (or you'll be shorting out part of the power supply & probably burn something up).

No jumper? Go buy a pack from Radio Shack if you still have one open near you.

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
So, I did these on at atime.

I swapped the .02 for the .01. Gave a small improvement to the "feel" of the amp, but still boom. I noticed after I did this, the "SKY" knob does very little now, and some frequencies about like 8khz are getting a little fizzy.

I then swapped in the 4.7 where we took out the 25uf. It wasn't enough so I tried a 1uf and I liked it better.

Found something odd. He had an 80k resistor instead of a 100 in the left side of the LTPI. I swapped it to a 100. Everything changed a little. It got tighter, it got a little brighter, and the distortion added a little fizz. It sounds and feels much better, but.. it added quite a bit more distortion.

Any idea why he would do that? Mistake?

You guys are awesome. I'm going to play with it as is for a day and see if I bond to it. If I have time tomorrow I'll do a before and after clip of the mp3 I sent you.

Thanks again

Offline HotBluePlates

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 13127
Found something odd. He had an 80k resistor instead of a 100 in the left side of the LTPI. ...

Any idea why he would do that? Mistake? ...

Look at a Marshall or Fender schematic. Typically, one side of the phase inverter has an 82kΩ resistor while the other side has a 100kΩ resistor. The "unbalanced" resistors actually correct for a natural gain imbalance in the long-tail, to get even output signals to the output tubes.

The buzzbomb schematic is using "balanced" resistors to actually unbalance the drive signals a little. Result? More distortion, as you heard. The impression of extra brightness is probably you hearing more distortion and interpreting it as "more edge/bite."

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Hey guys,

It's near perfect. I put a .47 in the V1A and a 2.2 in the V1B, after trying a .68 and a 1.0.

Also that 1M resistor we swapped to a 220, I put in 500. which as a whole helped give some very pleasant low end growl that I really like.

I think it's very close. right now a little bit of that nasally sound creeped back in after I swapped the 220 for the 500.
As a whole it now needs a hair more punch. So I'm going to try a 3.3 in the V1B. The bottom end is now very tight, but very pleasant. I'd like to keep the response tight but add some more bottom back in without it getting boomy. Any suggestions?

The high end is also starting to get a little harsh. I think it has too much between 5khz and 8khz. How can I lower the distortion without adding the boom back into it?

I have time to head to my electronics store and pick some stuff up. Are there some resistors that you'd recommend I swap out that would get me there? I'm thinking if I reduce the distortion that nasally sound will creep back in worse, which I might be able to compensate with the "enhancement cap" that was suggested before.

Thanks again.

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Hey that's great.  :icon_biggrin:     Your trying different part values 1 at a time and hearing what they do.  :wink:

Yes try the enhancement cap that Tubenit suggested.

And try putting the 80K back in the PI. (You said it gave you a little more distortion when you changed it to 100K.)

The buzzbomb schematic is using "balanced" resistors to actually unbalance the drive signals a little. Result? More distortion, as you heard. The impression of extra brightness is probably you hearing more distortion and interpreting it as "more edge/bite."

Have you tried playing with the earth control after each change to see if it works better now to help you dial in the bottom end?

For the little bit high end harshness you can also try, only after you change the 100K back to 80K, putting a 50pF to 200pF cap across V1a, V1b or V2a and see if that helps. Start with like a 100pF or 120pF, then adjust up or down for a little more or less high end harshness cut. Bigger cap value, bigger cut.

Just try 1 at a time, like a 100pF on V2a. It can sound better to use a smaller value cap across 2 different plate R's then 1 larger value cap across 1 plate R.     
 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 04:48:45 pm by Willabe »

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Yes the earth control sounds kind of cool now. It's actually very much like a lower boost control. Volume increases significantly with it, and it adds lows and low mids. So it can be balanced with the master knob one way or the other for different sounds. The amp has a sweet spot with the master at 11:00 and the earth at 2:00.

Can you show me where the small caps would go? Do you mean in parallel or series?

Offline HotBluePlates

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 13127
Yes the earth control sounds kind of cool now. It's actually very much like a lower boost control. Volume increases significantly with it, and it adds lows and low mids.

That's exactly what it is. It's a Presence control ("Sky" on your amp) that acts on lows instead of highs.

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
Can you show me where the small caps would go? Do you mean in parallel or series?

I'm sorry, I should have said in parallel. When someone says 'across' they mean in parallel.

You can't put a cap in series with a plate R because it will block the B+DCV from getting to the tubes plate, tube won't work then.That's why a coupling cap going from the output of a preamp tubes plate to the next gain stages input/grid is also called a blocking cap. It blocks the DCV from getting to the next tubes grid and messing up that tubes bias. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 06:55:27 pm by Willabe »

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
The 240pf enhancement cap balanced out the highs perfectly.

The EQ is as perfect as I think I can get it. Small tweaks to the EQ knobs and Earth knobs go a long way to dial it in, but it sounds fantastic all at noon.

Is there any way to get more "pluck" or "pick snap" out of it without drastically ruining the EQ? Other than that, it is excellent.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:29:33 pm by paintballnsk »

Offline Willabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Level 5
  • ******
  • Posts: 10524
The 240pf enhancement cap balanced out the highs perfectly.

Where did you put it?

On the PI (phase inverter) or across 1 off the preamp tubes plate R's? 

« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:49:21 pm by Willabe »

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
The first 100k after the PI, where the 82k was.

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
I swapped the PI caps that were originally .1 that we changed to .02. I changed them to .047. It's good.

Still not thrilled with the mud, I put in a .33 into the V1A, and a 560k where the V1 went to the Master volume.

It's sexy. I'm going to play with it a few days and I'm doing a before/after now.

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Do forgive the sloppy edits please. I'll re-track it later.
This has the old and the new.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxFZz1b_0UHAWnF2VWprMmhoTGs/view?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 01:13:26 am by paintballnsk »

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Thank you guys for all the help. I put a schematic of the mods in the OP. It came out great and I'll reply with a sound clip in a week or so.

If you see anything strange with it, please let me know. I'm still interested in trying to get a little more snap out of the amp in general but still having the distortion. I'm not sure how to do that. Could modding it to a 6L6 or EL34 help take care of that?

Offline philippe78

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I love Tube amps
salut paintballnsk . pourrais tu afficher le shéma final de toutes tes modifications ?  .. merci

Offline 2deaf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Now too deaf for 100 watts
Il a publié le schéma avec les changements dans le message original.

Offline philippe78

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I love Tube amps
est ce le shema en page 1 ?

Offline 2deaf

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 1667
  • Now too deaf for 100 watts
I put a schematic of the mods in the OP.
Le premier poste sur la première page a une mise à jour avec une pièce jointe appelée BuzzBomb Mods.NSK. Cela présente les modifications qu'il a faites.

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
There have been several additions. I took out the Earth control and changed the grid series resistor on the input from 56k to 66k. Both of those were the most significant changes. That totally brought the amp to life.

Sound clip will be updated here:
http://soundcloud.com/crossfirerecording/zedmod_1

After tracking, it still needs a little tweak to the bottom and top end, but it's closer. Probably just tracked it with a hair too much gain or could simply be mic position.

 I'm going to try to repurpose the Earth knob as a second gain knob on the V2A stage and see what that does :)

Offline philippe78

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I love Tube amps
merci beaucoup 2deaf . je suis justement en train de fabriquer un buzz bomb . ça va l'améliorer ...   super le resultat sur la disto !!!!

Offline philippe78

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I love Tube amps
ampli terminé . j'ai monté un VVR EN +...  TOP !

Offline dixierocker

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • I love Tube amps
I ran into this exact same issue when I built one of these amps myself.

The issue is an easy fix...  Just swap the brown and blue wires on V4 and V5 pin 7. They are out of phase with each other.

Bam no more boominess! No need to change any components!




Offline Bieworm

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 705
  • I like it loud!
@ 18watt.com it's pretty common the CK of the EL84 tubes is 2200uf. That keeps the low end tighter.
"This should be played at high volume.. preferably in a residential area"

Offline jordan86

  • Level 3
  • ***
  • Posts: 562
  • I love Tube amps
Zombie thread! 6 years old :)

Offline tubeswell

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4202
  • He who dies with the most tubes... wins
Zombie Lockdown
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline shooter

  • Level 5
  • *******
  • Posts: 11014
  • Karma Loves haters
 :laugh:
i'm not a zombie
although I am a dave  :icon_biggrin:
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline vintasonic

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • I love Tube amps
Nobody asked and it's quite critical.

What speaker are you using?  What's the cabinet like?

Offline tubeswell

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 4202
  • He who dies with the most tubes... wins
Nobody asked and it's quite critical.

What speaker are you using?  What's the cabinet like?


I think the OP is long gone
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline paintballnsk

  • Level 1
  • *
  • Posts: 74
  • I love Tube amps
Eh, I still keep my eye on the thread haha. There's a lot of good info on the first page haha.

I'm using a Splawn 412 with V30's on the bottom and Greenbacks on top. It used to have x pattern K100's and V30's.

One of the best changes was messing with the bias. I couldn't tell ya where the amp is at since the original post, but I've tinkered with the amp quite a bit. It's been a great learning tool.

 


Choose a link from the
Hoffman Amplifiers parts catalog
Mobile Device
Catalog Link
Yard Sale
Discontinued
Misc. Hardware
What's New Board Building
 Parts
Amp trim
Handles
Lamps
Diodes
Hoffman Turret
 Boards
Channel
Switching
Resistors Fender Eyelet
 Boards
Screws/Nuts
Washers
Jacks/Plugs
Connectors
Misc Eyelet
Boards
Tools
Capacitors Custom Boards
Tubes
Valves
Pots
Knobs
Fuses/Cords Chassis
Tube
Sockets
Switches Wire
Cable


Handy Links
Tube Amp Library
Tube Amp
Schematics library
Design a custom Eyelet or
Turret Board
DIY Layout Creator
File analyzer program
DIY Layout Creator
File library
Transformer Wiring
Diagrams
Hoffmanamps
Facebook page
Hoffman Amplifiers
Discount Program