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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build  (Read 15856 times)

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Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2016, 07:46:35 pm »
Raw control is as simple as replacing the 10K mid pot with a 100K or 250K pot.

EDIT...For an even more gainy sound, remove the 47K from the board, or make it switchable.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 07:54:44 pm by sluckey »
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2016, 12:33:15 pm »
Finally tested the voltages with tubes in (voltages listed below).

                 Plate     Cathode   Grid  Screen
  V1a        260           2.1
  V1b        261           2.0
  V2a         435          7.8
  V2b         435          7.8
  V3a         257          1.3
  V3b        259          1.3
  V4a           ?              ?
  V4b        439            ?
  V5a        228           92           60
  V5b        216           92           62
   V6         437      15.1mA      -49     435
   V7         437      18.8mA      -49     435


V1, V3 and V5 are significantly higher than the Fender AB763 Deluxe Reverb schematic shows for the respective tubes. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The question marks for V4 are because a voltage could not be determined because the voltages kept varying.  The V4b voltage is considerably higher than what the Fender schematic shows. The power tubes were supposed to be balanced but they aren't very balanced. Have a replacement set on order. Biased the tubes to 68% dissipation based on the higher current rating for V7.


Checked the DC voltage on the Heater supply. It is 46VDC using a 22K resistor to ground. Willabe suggested a 100K resistor to ground and looks for a DC voltage on the heaters of between 70 and 80VDC. Can I use 1/2 watt resistors in the voltage divider?


Amp sounds good and is pretty quiet. Voltages need to be fixed though.


Thanks
Mike
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 01:08:30 pm by Mike_J »

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2016, 01:00:00 pm »
Quote
Can I use 1/2 watt resistors in the voltage divider?
Yes. You have 46 volts across a 22K resistor. So, P = E2/R, or 46*46/22000 = .1 watt. I'd feel better using a 1 watter though.

Quote
Voltages need to be fixed though.
Nothing wrong with the voltages on V4. If you want steady voltages, disable the trem oscillator with the footswitch or shorting plug.

I don't see voltages for V3a and V3b?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2016, 01:11:30 pm »
Quote
Can I use 1/2 watt resistors in the voltage divider?
Yes. You have 46 volts across a 22K resistor. So, P = E2/R, or 46*46/22000 = .1 watt. I'd feel better using a 1 watter though.

I don't see voltages for V3a and V3b?
Have more 1/2 watt resistors so will determine which values are needed and order one watt resistors if necessary. Fixed the mistake in reply 51. Somehow left out results for tube three.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2016, 02:12:37 pm »
Double checked the 1K and 4.7K dropping resistors and they test correctly. I have had the Solen fast cap (power cap feeding tubes one and three) for 15 years. Is it possible that the cap is bad and isn't charging? Would that cause higher voltages on tubes one and three?


Thanks,
Mike

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2016, 02:28:28 pm »
If you want lower preamp voltages then use Deluxe Reverb values.

Look at the schematic for a Deluxe Reverb AB763. You'll notice that the 1K and 4.7K dropping resistors in the B+ rail are really 10K and 10K. The resistor values you used are for the bigger 6L6 amps. Doug noted the differences in his two channel AB763 BOM but not in his single channel AB763 BOM.

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/Fender_Deluxe-Reverb-AB763-schematic.pdf

A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2016, 02:55:11 pm »
If you want lower preamp voltages then use Deluxe Reverb values.

Look at the schematic for a Deluxe Reverb AB763. You'll notice that the 1K and 4.7K dropping resistors in the B+ rail are really 10K and 10K. The resistor values you used are for the bigger 6L6 amps. Doug noted the differences in his two channel AB763 BOM but not in his single channel AB763 BOM.

http://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/fender/Fender_Deluxe-Reverb-AB763-schematic.pdf
Thanks Sluckey, you solved the mystery again. Checked the voltages on the Fender Super Reverb schematic and they are in line with what I posted above. Couldn't find two three watt 10K metal oxide resistors but had two 9.1Ks. Should be close enough.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline mresistor

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2016, 04:47:36 pm »
When I click on the photo and open it up is displays standing up right.
Guess I will have to live with it the way it is.
Thanks
Mike
Well..if you are going to rotate the photo 90 degrees right, it would be nice to warn the old folk in the viewing audience, because they see the  sample pic and they get up out of the chair and position themselves in anticipation of the enlarged pic displaying 90 degrees left.  Did you do this intentionally?    :laugh:

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2016, 09:15:40 pm »
When I click on the photo and open it up is displays standing up right.
Guess I will have to live with it the way it is.
Thanks
Mike
Well..if you are going to rotate the photo 90 degrees right, it would be nice to warn the old folk in the viewing audience, because they see the  sample pic and they get up out of the chair and position themselves in anticipation of the enlarged pic displaying 90 degrees left.  Did you do this intentionally?    :laugh:
I have no idea why it looks sideways. Since it corrects itself when you click on it I didn't spend much time trying to figure it out. Could get a neck ache trying to view it though.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline tdvt

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2016, 07:39:18 am »
I have been following your progress, so keep the reports coming!

I have a loaded Hoffman AB763 board, modded to single-channel (he didn't offer them at that point) that I didn't finish as I realized I wanted a few simpler projects under my belt first.

We (it is for my son) had planned to build it out as a Pro Reverb-sized amp (6L6s/ 2-12"s) but I think a Deluxe will suit his needs better, so I have an even greater interest following your thread.

Chassis & cabinet are good to go with mine but the faceplate is still TBD. Your faceplates look great & I'd be interested in the specifics of the process; graphic program, stencil material, ink, etc.

Best, TD


Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2016, 11:48:33 am »
I have been following your progress, so keep the reports coming!

I have a loaded Hoffman AB763 board, modded to single-channel (he didn't offer them at that point) that I didn't finish as I realized I wanted a few simpler projects under my belt first.

We (it is for my son) had planned to build it out as a Pro Reverb-sized amp (6L6s/ 2-12"s) but I think a Deluxe will suit his needs better, so I have an even greater interest following your thread.

Chassis & cabinet are good to go with mine but the faceplate is still TBD. Your faceplates look great & I'd be interested in the specifics of the process; graphic program, stencil material, ink, etc.

Best, TD
What kind of chassis do you have now? I use Inkscape to layout the faceplate and back plate, send it to my local printer in an email and a few days later it is ready. Costs $12.50 per side. He prints on vinyl and covers the printing with a lamination. Have found it to be quite durable. Has some advantages and disadvantages versus the Fender style nameplates. I like it because when I make changes, which happen all the time, I have only wasted $12.50.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline tdvt

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2016, 05:20:00 am »

What kind of chassis do you have now? I use Inkscape to layout the faceplate and back plate, send it to my local printer in an email and a few days later it is ready. Costs $12.50 per side. He prints on vinyl and covers the printing with a lamination. Have found it to be quite durable. Has some advantages and disadvantages versus the Fender style nameplates. I like it because when I make changes, which happen all the time, I have only wasted $12.50.


Thanks,
Mike

Your method for the faceplates is what I had been thinking of trying. I have/have used Inkscape & considered printing decals (for the base metal to show) as well as the whole faceplate. I misread your post about screen printing the NAME plates.

I am making this one tweed-style using an aluminum chassis I got from Dirty Dawg  a few years ago. I had thought to polish the chassis side & use decals but am not adverse to a full plate like you have used.

Thanks, TD

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2016, 07:42:22 am »

What kind of chassis do you have now? I use Inkscape to layout the faceplate and back plate, send it to my local printer in an email and a few days later it is ready. Costs $12.50 per side. He prints on vinyl and covers the printing with a lamination. Have found it to be quite durable. Has some advantages and disadvantages versus the Fender style nameplates. I like it because when I make changes, which happen all the time, I have only wasted $12.50.


Thanks,
Mike

Your method for the faceplates is what I had been thinking of trying. I have/have used Inkscape & considered printing decals (for the base metal to show) as well as the whole faceplate. I misread your post about screen printing the NAME plates.

I am making this one tweed-style using an aluminum chassis I got from Dirty Dawg  a few years ago. I had thought to polish the chassis side & use decals but am not adverse to a full plate like you have used.

Thanks, TD
I have used decals. The decals look nice when installed. However, to make them somewhat permanent you must spray them with a clear top coat (best to use three or four coats). The spray was too toxic to use inside so I sprayed it outside. Problem is a lot of dust is attracted to the finish while it is drying. When you have a mirror finished chassis the dust particles become very obvious. If you have a dust free paint booth you could probably get good results.


The advantage of using the vinyl with the laminated cover is the printer controls the process and the end result is always very acceptable. Screen printing is a process that takes practice to perfect. Would be hard to get all materials necessary to do the screen printing for less than $100.00. While silk screening I used transparencies to make the screens. They are 8-1/2" X 11" so I am not sure how you would create a screen to do the whole chassis all at one time. Lining up two screens would be very difficult but maybe possible. Silk screening using proper inks would give the best result for your chassis given proper application.


Haven't checked to see if clear vinyl is available for use with Inkscape. If it is then you would be far better off using laminated clear vinyl in my opinion versus either decals or screen printing. That doesn't mean ink screening wouldn't be preferred, it just isn't cost effective for a one-off project.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2016, 10:07:16 am »
Installed the 9.1K resistors and tested the amp with humbuckers. Turned it up to max volume and she honked like a goose. Used a Strat with volume on six with the higher preamp plate voltages before installing the 9.1K resistors. Sounded great. Wish I had tried the humbuckers at max volume with the higher plate voltages.


One of the changes I made to the circuit was changing the .001 cap feeding the PI to .01. I know I should change this back and see what happens to the honk and if it doesn't go away change the Solen cap that feeds the preamp, that I keep mentioning, for a new cap. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2016, 10:31:56 am »
If proper value, that Solen cap ain't causing you any grief. Many people change the .1µF coupling caps between the PI and PA to .047s or even .022s.  And they also change the 25µF cathode bypass caps in the signal chain to 5µF or smaller. Makes a big difference in the sound. Speaker choice makes a huge difference in sound.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2016, 11:03:50 am »
If proper value, that Solen cap ain't causing you any grief. Many people change the .1µF coupling caps between the PI and PA to .047s or even .022s.  And they also change the 25µF cathode bypass caps in the signal chain to 5µF or smaller. Makes a big difference in the sound. Speaker choice makes a huge difference in sound.
Thanks Sluckey,


Not sure we are talking about the same cap. The one I am mentioning is the .001 cap that feeds the grid (V5a) of the the PI tube. Read a post by Groundhog Ken from about ten years ago if I recall. He mentioned that increasing that cap can cause an amp to honk. He suggested the schematic value of .001 or a value as low as 500pF. My guess is the humbuckers are letting in a hotter signal to the PI which is more than it can handle but I defer to your judgment concerning this matter. Groundhog Ken mentioned this mod was something Gerald Weber was suggesting. I got the .01 from another site. Wonder myself if this isn't something good for a switch. Determine a single coil value and a humbucker value and put them on a switch. I have the cap coming off the power amp jack in the passive FX circuitry. Could place the switch right next to it.


I was wondering about the speakers but these speakers are Celestion Creamback 12M65s. The reviews for the speakers say they are not honky. These speakers in this amp could win the prize for honkiness. The cabinet is closed back. It is filled with acoustic foam (trying to make it sound like a 412 with 212 weight). The speakers have an hour or two of time on them. One thing some reviews said was time makes them better. Have a Dumble clone oval backed cabinet with Celestion Heritage 1265s and another with EV12Ls in it. Will try those cabinets and see what happens.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2016, 12:52:28 pm »
Quote
Not sure we are talking about the same cap. The one I am mentioning is the .001 cap that feeds the grid (V5a) of the the PI tube.
I'm aware you changed that coupling cap. I would have left it alone. You also mentioned the Solen again in that same paragraph.

My Solen comment was in response to your "change the Solen cap that feeds the preamp, that I keep mentioning, for a new cap" comment. It ain't a problem and probably never will be.

Fender never used any Celestion speakers in the '60s. If you want a blackface sound, get a bright sounding speaker.

A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2016, 02:19:52 pm »
Quote
Not sure we are talking about the same cap. The one I am mentioning is the .001 cap that feeds the grid (V5a) of the the PI tube.
I'm aware you changed that coupling cap. I would have left it alone. You also mentioned the Solen again in that same paragraph.

My Solen comment was in response to your "change the Solen cap that feeds the preamp, that I keep mentioning, for a new cap" comment. It ain't a problem and probably never will be.

Fender never used any Celestion speakers in the '60s. If you want a blackface sound, get a bright sounding speaker.
Good to know we are in agreement as to which cap we are talking about. I guess it is a coupling cap since it couples the V3b plate to the V5a grid. Two identical caps in series which if my memory is correct halves them. There is already a .1uF cap near V3b and the .001uF cap is in series. So the combination must be less than .1uF. If the .1uF is changed to a .02uF and the .001uF cap is in series with it what impact does it have on capacitance versus a .1uF/.001uF combination. Pretty sure a .1uF/.01uF combination causes serious honkiness in the case of my amp.


Okay I will leave the Solen cap alone. I bought a Jensen C12N to go with a Jensen P12N I already had. That is another combination I can try. Will take the Creambacks out and run the Jensen's in the oversized cabinet, take the middle slat out and make it open backed.


You have given me much great advice, most of which I have followed. Wish I hadn't added active effects and an overdrive channel to my Sluckey inspired Plexi/800 build, which you advised against. Just too much, although it doesn't sound too bad. Easy to switch the cap back to .001. Live and learn.


Thanks,
Mike

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2016, 02:48:33 pm »
Total capacitance for series caps will ALWAYS be LESS than the smallest cap.

Look at this easy to understand page...

     http://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

The input impedance to the PI is so high that you probably wont hear a difference between a .001, .01, .02, or even a 500pF. Those other caps I mentioned are popular tried and trusted mods that you will hear a definite difference. All will reduce the flubby bass of an AB763 that some people don't like. This may be your honky sound?
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2016, 06:52:46 pm »
Total capacitance for series caps will ALWAYS be LESS than the smallest cap.

Look at this easy to understand page...

     http://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

The input impedance to the PI is so high that you probably wont hear a difference between a .001, .01, .02, or even a 500pF. Those other caps I mentioned are popular tried and trusted mods that you will hear a definite difference. All will reduce the flubby bass of an AB763 that some people don't like. This may be your honky sound?
Calculated the capacitance of a .001 cap in series with a .1 and a .001 in series with a .02 as 990 and 952pF, respectively. Thought, certainly this can't be what Sluckey was talking about when he said changing the caps between the PI and PA from .1 to .02. Then a light bulb went off. I bet he meant PA to mean power amp and not preamp. He wasn't talking about changing the cap in series with the .001 from .1 to .02. He was talking about the coupling caps tied to the V5 plates being changed to impact the bass issue.


Sorry. The confusion was mine. Got focused too narrowly on the .001 cap issue and had trouble seeing past it. Will change the .01 cap back to a .001 tomorrow and go from there. Will keep you informed.


Thanks,
Mike 

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2016, 01:35:40 pm »
As Sluckey mentioned the RAW is simple.  The stock Deluxe and any 2 tone Fenders limit to usability of the amps to a great degree creating the scooped mid tone.  I do love a Fender so I am not dissing it at all.


Years ago when I began really trying to get a true Bakersfield tone (Think Red Simpson) I was playing a twin in clubs where I could use one.  All I had to do is turn up the mids all the way, bring the treble to around 4 or so and no bass at all.  When the stage volume decreased and I began using a Deluxe and a Princeton I could no longer get the tone.


At a show I met Pete Anderson who has a great tone to me and he was using a 65 Blackface Deluxe and I asked him.  Well low and behold in the EXT speaker slot sat a 100K mid pot.  He was running it almost wide open and very little treble and no bass.


Since, I have been able to get quite a variety of tones with a Deluxe.  Platefire just went through doing some of the mods to a deluxe build.


Here is a list of mods on a Deluxe I love.


Adjustable NFB
Cathode bypass switching on V1 if we are speaking of a 1 channel amp.  I use a 3 position rotary with stock, a 10uf and 2.2uf
Raw pot for mids
Plate voltage close to 360 loaded for lower headroom and quicker breakup.
I prefer a 8K to 10K OT
The AB763 Circuit of course
A tone stack bypass with a .022 cap.
I normally only use a Blue Molded cap at the first coupler, the rest I use something a little less articulate.  Anything from a Sozo to original Philips mustard.
Also I prefer cathode bias as to me I seem to get more bloom.


I know you are building closer to stock, but all of these things will enhance the amps flexibility.  I can get a Tweed tone, the BlackFace tone and with the NFB off and the first cap the 2.2uf playing a Humbucker guitar really will make the amp nasty, but easily will switch back to the stock tone.


My preference is Big Bottle amps, but I do love the Deluxe because the the LTPI and the distortion.  Very hard to beat unless you are wanting a real clean amp.

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2016, 07:26:10 pm »
Ed, thank you so much for the mods you listed. Have some questions if you don't mind answering them.
 
 
Adjustable NFB – I placed a 2K pot in series with the 820R resistor. Do you think this is adequate? Sounds like you have an option for no NFB. If so, would you just remove the 820R resistor?

 Cathode bypass switching on V1 if we are speaking of a 1 channel amp.  I use a 3 position rotary with stock, a 10uf and 2.2uf – Are you referring to the a or b side of the 12AX7? Where do you place the switch? Is there a very noticeable difference between the 22uF and 10uF settings? The reason I am asking is if not then a DPDT switch could be used.

 Raw pot for mids – put a 10K pot in the middle position but will up it to 100K. I am guessing an audio pot would be preferred compared to a linear, correct? That way it would be easier to keep it close to stock if that is what I wanted to do. (Somewhere around four on an audio pot and less than one on a linear) Sluckey mentioned either removing the 47K from the board or putting it on a switch. Have you ever tried that mod?

 Plate voltage close to 360 loaded for lower headroom and quicker breakup – Thankfully the PT has 330 volt and 300 volt HT taps. I am guessing the 300 volt taps would produce in the neighborhood of 380 to 390 volts loaded when using a GZ34. Do you use a different rectifier tube to achieve that voltage or do you have a transformer with lower secondary voltages?

 I prefer a 8K to 10K OT – I took the PT and OT for this build out of my Tweed Deluxe build. I made the mistake of putting higher power Deluxe Reverb iron in my TD build. Wasn't happy with the sound, didn't sound like a Tweed Deluxe so I had to build this amp so the iron would be used appropriately. Need to purchase iron for the 5E3 now. TD uses an 8K OT. Magnetic Components has the 40-18090 with 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps. Could try that in this amp and if I don't like it put it in the TD.

 A tone stack bypass with a .022 cap – Would you explain how you accomplish that?

 I normally only use a Blue Molded cap at the first coupler, the rest I use something a little less articulate.  Anything from a Sozo to original Philips mustard - Have .1 @ 200V as well as .01 and .1 Philips mustards. Have some .02s and .047s mustards in some of the builds that could be borrowed. Easy enough to buy the Sozo's, either yellow or blue, if there isn't a significant difference between the Sozo's and mustards.  Have a .02 Sozo blue cap. I haven't been able to get my hands on a Blue Molded .02 cap I guess what I am not sure of is what type caps would you use in the tone stack, the .02 coupling cap on V1b, the V3b .1 coupling cap and the .1 coupling caps on the V5 plates? Don't you think the Xicon PP caps would be okay for the reverb and vibrato sections?  Are you talking about the caps in the tone stack when you say the first coupler or do you mean the .02 cap on V1b?
 
 Also I prefer cathode bias as to me I seem to get more bloom - think I will stick with PP for this amp. Have cathode bias on the Tweed Deluxe.


Thanks
Mike
 
 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 07:53:03 am by Mike_J »

Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2016, 09:35:48 pm »
Quote
Sluckey mentioned either removing the 47K from the board or putting it on a switch. Have you ever tried that mod?
This is specific to the Hoffman AB763. A real AB763 does not have a 47K in that position. However, that 47K is meant to simulate the 50K INT pot in a real AB763. A popular mod is to switch that INT pot out for a gain boost.

All you gotta do is just lift one end of that resistor. The gain increase is obvious. If you don't like it, put it back.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2016, 10:41:53 am »
Just received another matched set of power tubes. Put them in and set the grid voltage to -35VDC. Cathode voltage across a one ohm resistor measured 27.9mV with a plate voltage of 423VDC. Calculated dissipation is 98%. Sluckey has mentioned more than once that the grid voltage should be set at -35 volts so I am quite certain he has a good reason for it.


Reset the bias so the lower tube had 20mV on it. Other tube measured 20.7mV, 3.4% difference, so this matched set is really a matched set, at least so far. Plate voltage measured 434VDC. Voltage on grid pin is -39.7VDC. Dissipation is 72.3%. Didn't want to burn tubes in at 98% dissipation without posting these results first for any comment.


Thanks
Mike






Offline sluckey

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2016, 11:38:42 am »
Quote
Cathode voltage across a one ohm resistor measured 27.9mV with a plate voltage of 423VDC. Calculated dissipation is 98%.
Something is wrong with your dissipation calculations. Those numbers yield 11.8 watts, which is 84.3% of 14 watts (max plate dissipation for 6V6).

Quote
Sluckey has mentioned more than once that the grid voltage should be set at -35 volts so I am quite certain he has a good reason for it.
That's not what I said. This is what I said... "Bias should end up at about -35VDC if you are running 6V6s." Big difference. -35vdc will get you in the ballpark.

Quote
...bias so the lower tube had 20mV on it. ...Plate voltage measured 434VDC. ...Dissipation is 72.3%.
Something wrong again. Those numbers yield 8.68 watts, which is 62%.

Looks like you are using 12 watts for PaMax. Why?

A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2016, 01:29:52 pm »
Looks like you are using 12 watts for PaMax. Why?
Mass confusion. No idea how I got 12 watts maximum dissipation for a 6V6 but the corrected number of 14 watts does shine light on your about -35 volt statements. Makes a whole lot more sense to me now.


Thanks
Mike

Offline Ed_Chambley

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #76 on: April 01, 2016, 02:48:58 pm »

 Also I prefer cathode bias as to me I seem to get more bloom - think I will stick with PP for this amp. Have cathode bias on the Tweed Deluxe.


Thanks
Mike

NFB, in all my builds it is only a switching pot.  Or a switch and a pot.  More important on big bottle marshall amps or similar to get the crunch.

A cranked Deluxe Blackface gets loose on the bass end as I find with 6V6 tubes running high voltages and distorting.

I would do a drawing on the switch on the cap switching for v1, but I am writing on a tablet.  In the back of the amp I put a 3 position switch and connect the cathode to the center and from each switching position I put a cap and resistor combination from each switch point to ground which will bias the tube differently.  Position 1 is stock, position 2 I will use a 10uf and a 820 resistor and finally the 2.2uf and even lower the resistor value some.

Fargen calls this a Decade switch.  The 2.2uf to 4.7 uf will remove a lot of the looseness in the bass.  You can do it with as many or as few as you prefer.

I get the transformer I want from Edcor.  While I mention this a lot of guys do not heavily consider a PT, but a friend who has a shop here in town, Jeff Bakos has shown me the differences a PT can make and it is a lot.  Depending on the attack you want, you can consider using a PT that will help provide it.  I am not using much in the way of rectifier tubes on new builds, but having one and changing to achieve different voltages is cool.

I also harvest a lot from old Hammond Tone Cabinets.  You can get them cheap and the JR 20 has a really nice one and if you watch craigslist or simply stop in by older churches and ask if they have any old organ stuff around.  Most still do.  I got a Stromberg Carlson PA last Saturday from a church in exchange for a $20 donation.  I am careful not to collect too much junk tho.  I have been there too many times.  No more, if I do not use it in 6 months it goes on Ebay or to a friend.

The 8 to 10K OT's are simply from the 6V6 Data sheet and I prefer lower voltages so these OT's are a better match plus the Hammond Tone Cabinets have some really nice OT's and chokes.
Bypassing the tonestack is just like picking off the signal after the plate of V1.  The cap value is simply to shave some of the Bass as I do this to get the amp distorting.  You can use switching here as well.  Then just insert at the PI.  Having a RAW will almost do the same.  All you are doing is adding more resistance to the tone stack so less of the signal is attenuated.

Speaking on caps, Blue Molded .02, first coupler vibrato channel.  Not the .047 in the normal channel.  I am not impressed with the Sozo Blue for this place.  A vintage yellow like the Jupiter or the Blue Caps Angela instruments started selling. Big sounding like the old blue molded.  Not sure, but that musicap may be good here too.  Anywhere the signal is, I use a nice cap.  Xicon caps work well too.  Have no problem with the chicklets.  They are not cheap caps and I really do not now why others dont use the a lot.  I built a Super Reverb for a friend and used them all the way and the amp sounds great.

And finally cathode bias does not change the amp from being Push Pull and you can keep fixed and make the cathode bias switchable.  I have done it many times.  Since the lower volumes that are needed, it is just an easy way to get to the goods that the 6V6 tubes have.  I also prefer NOS TungSol 6V6GT's distortion, the JJ's are not as smooth but do have a lower end focus.  The new TungSol I would only use in a cathode bias amp.  They distort n the brittle side in a stock deluxe granted you are not going to be having as much stress on them.

I hope that answered your questions sufficiently.  The tonestack bypass or raw with lowering the coupling caps at v1 will let you get very close to 6V6 Plexi especially if you do the tonestack bypass and select the best cap, but you will not have the Plexi clean which is my favorite part of the Plexi tone.

Have fun with it.

Offline PRR

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2016, 04:06:31 pm »
> No idea how I got 12 watts maximum dissipation for a 6V6

That IS the correct goal if you are selling $19.95 radios. Build-and-ship, cheapest parts, no testing. This leaves considerable safety margin for their sloppy tubes, your cheap resistors, and utility company wobbly wall voltage.

If you are going to carefully consider your parts and voltage, 14W is the "Design Max" number you may shoot for. That still leaves margin for tube variation.

If you are going to actually measure every unit you build, you can probably cheat-up some more. Heck, we know the Champ 600 runs a new-made (tho perhaps tight-spec) "6V6" at something like 17 Watts.

However you should also wonder what you gain by toasting the bottles.

And (generally) if you shouldn't be using a large tube for a large job. True in this case it "would not be a DeLuxe anymore".

Offline Mike_J

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Re: New AB763 (Deluxe Reverb) Build
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2016, 07:30:39 pm »
Got back to working on the amp today. Installed four fuse holders; one for the heater supply (3A - Slo), one for the 5V rectifier tube (3.15V - Slo) and two for the HT secondary wires from the PT (1A - Slo), one for each wire. Installed UF5408 diodes between the fuses on the HT wires and pins four and six of the rectifier tube. Also received and installed a 3A AC module that has chokes for both the hot and neutral AC wires. The purpose of the module is to reduce electromagnetic interference. Picture is attached.


Waiting on parts for the bypass cathode/resistor jig. When I receive them will install switch or switches as mentioned by Ed above. Have installed a 100K audio pot in the middle position as mentioned by Sluckey and Ed.


Changed the cap feeding the PI entry grid from the .01 to the correct value of .001. Amp still sounds good, can't tell a difference, until it is cranked. Humbuckers sounded honky, tested with a Strat and I would say it is more blatty than honky with the Strat. Changed speakers in the cabinet from Celestion Creamback G12M65s to Jensen reissue P12N / C12N combination and converted the cabinet to open-back. Still blatty. Pretty sure now Sluckey"s comment about bass is correct. Hopefully a change of bypass caps and resistors will tame it. If not will lower a coupling cap value or two and see what happens.


Thanks
Mike


 


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