K&K PWM in Guild 12-string

[jjasilli]

Just finished installing a K&K Pure Western Mini PU in my circa 1980 Guild F-212NT 12 string.  It's 3 under the soundboard piezzo transducers that mount with superglue gel to the bridge plate inside the guitar > endpin jack > amp.  It has enough output & impedance friendliness to drive a standard guitar tube amp without the absolute requirement of a preamp, etc. 


I plugged it into my Alamo Capri which is a dark sounding amp.  The PU is very clear, transparent and acoustic sounding.  It seems very bright, with little low end -- but to my surprise it matches the tone of the guitar unplugged.  I'm using light gauge strings.  I want more bass.  K&K makes a PU especially for 12-string, with more low end response, but I couldn't find any reviews of it.  It's a bit late for that now. 


So I'm thinking: heavier gauge strings, and tune down a whole step?; and/or eq.  I'll take it for a test ride in the real world at an open mic, acoustic blues jam on Monday evening with preamp, eq etc.


UPDATE:  Heavier gauge bass strings --  E A D -- now yield proper bass.

[John]

Looking forward to how it does live. I really do live under a rock, I haven't heard about any of these pickups you've talked about. Then again, that's why I come here. haha Thanks for your reviews!

[jjasilli]

Live test will have to wait.  The heavier gauge bass strings sound great, but really screwed up the action / set-up.  Looks like nut, saddle and neck relief need work.  On a 12-string, that battle is not for me.  Will take it to a luthier for set-up.

[John]

Posting this for whoever might want to install these (like me). Excellent tutorial on installing those pups.


http://www.cavalierpickups.com/frettech/kk/index.html

[jjasilli]

Thanks, John.  For the 3 PU's I used the K&K jig which installs one disk @ a time.  Once you get the hang of it, the 3 @ a time method looks attractive.


I use a different method to enlarge the endpin hole.  I try not to use el drills on hollow body guitars.  I prefer a hand drill.  My method: remove endpin, leaving empty hole.  Use a 1/2" chamfering bit to enlarge the outside end of the hole at a tapered angle.  This is good because a straight bit will bite hard into the finish and might tear-off large chips; and might tear out wood too. 

I have a HSS wood drill set in 64th" increments.  Find the bit that just fits freely into the existing hole.  Then chuck the next larger bit into the hand drill & drill though the end pin block.  Repeat with progressively larger bits.  The endpin jack will fit a hole 2 sizes smaller than 1/2".  Though the HSS bits have an aggressive bite for a hand drill, it doesn't matter because the chamfering bit has already gotten below surface. 

Alternatively a reamer could be used, but I don't have one.  Chamfering is still recommended to protect the finish from chipping.  A spherical grinding bit could also be used to chamfer.  I don't trust masking tape alone.

A GeorgeL plug fits through the enlarged hole, and is a great way to fish the endpin jack through the hole.

[tubenit]

I love the K&K pwm pickups on my Larrivee.  Great tone!

Jeff

[John]

Ah hah, I didn't read the part about their own jig! If I get 'em, I think I'll do it that way. I'm not the most gifted person I know.


 

[G._Hoffman]

I sell about 20-30 of these a year, and for some situations they are really awesome pickups.  They are not the most resistant to feedback, but they do have a very nice, rich, complex sound.  I wouldn't call them lacking in bass, though, so I think that might have been something else in the system.  And while you are right, they do better than most passive systems without a preamp, if you run a cable much beyond 10 feet you ARE going to start loosing low end. 

Honestly, I don't think the larger elements sound much different.  I think you are going get a lot further getting yourself a Para D.I., or something similar.  I'm not particularly wild about the K&K preamps, myself (it's just a pretty straight forward TL072 amplifier with some simple tone controls, and the build quality isn't great), but I do have some customers who are great players, and have really great ears, who are very fond of them, so I think it's a bit of a Fender vs. Marshall kind of thing.


Gabriel

[jjasilli]

Thanks for the input, Gabe.  It turns out that my lack of bass was caused by the use of extra light strings.  I never noticed it before, until I heard the guitar sound played back at me through an amp.  I need the extra light strings on this guitar, so I compromised and used 3 heavier bass strings for E A D from a 13-gauge set.  Bottom end is now there!!! The K&K PWM PU sounds great; and the action is still playable.


However the use of the 3 heavier bass strings did require a full new setup, which I had done by my luthier. 


I plan to add Schatten thumbwheel controls for vol & tone at the soundhole.


Meanwhile, I just took delivery of a K&K Spider Bridge PU to install in one of my resonator guitars. 

[G._Hoffman]

By the way, they dropped the "Western", it's just the Pure Mini, now. 

They are very good sounding pickups, though they will never get terribly loud.  I sell a lot of Fishman Matrix Infinity pickups, too, and we have them both mounted in a guitar here in the shop, which is intended to help people decide which is right for them, but because of the environment kind of gives the K&K an unfair advantage.  You might occasionally have to compete with a band saw around here, but never a drummer or a B-3 player!


Gabriel

[jjasilli]

The simplicity of the K&K passive system is what won me over.  It sounds good & works for my purposes which is small venues and jams.  By "simplicity" I mean NO BATTERIES or preamp needed.  I detest batteries.  I toyed with the idea of phantom power for an onboard preamp-- but if the venue doesn't support it, you need to carry your own outboard box, blah blah.


Schatten now makes the Artist 2 in-line endpin jack Preamp which accepts 48V phantom power.  I was tempted to try that, but just don't need the complexity.

[G._Hoffman]

Well, to be fair, Fishman's preamp is extremely efficient - the specs are 1000 hours on a 9V battery.  In practice, heavy users will usually get about 6 months out of a battery, and I've seen people get 4-5 years out of a battery, if they don't use it much.


Gabriel