Relay switching wiring

[daveyajd]

Hello,
I am having some trouble wrapping my head around how to wire my relay switching. Maybe someone can help me clear it up.


In my first amp I used a Weber relay so the connections were a bit different. I've attached a diagram of that relay to give a visual. The components I used in that amp consisted of, SPST front panel switch, LED on front of amp chassis, Cliff jack on the back to use foot switch(no LED on foot switch)
The second picture attached is the wiring that I used for the switches from the relay. Then I ran two wires from the diode on the relay board to my front LED through a CLR. Everything works great.


Now I am using Doug's relay PS and board so things look a bit different to me. The component I am using are the same and in the same location. Although now I want to be able to have an LED on my foot switch. The last picture is my best guess at making this happen. Do I go from the PS to the switches? Or over to the relay board first? Any help would be much appreciated.


Aaron

[shooter]

I get lost without a schematic, is this what you're trying to do?

[daveyajd]

I get lost without a schematic

And I seem to be in the other camp.    I understand the components that I'm see in on a schematic but I get twisted trying to picture how the connections look on real components.


That seems to be what I'm needing although I don't see any LEDs.
Will my + from the power supply go right to the cathode side of the diode? Then my common side from power supply will go to each jack?


Aaron

[shooter]

I don't see any LEDs

It's the *diode* symbol just left of the relay coil, ***but*** it needs to be flipped 180.  There is normally a diode wired like my drawing for spike control, but you want light, so it needs to be flipped AND a resistor to limit current flow in the LED.

inside your box you will need both + and ground(-).  Grd goes to the switch, through the switch, then on to cathode of the diode and continues back into the amp to one side of the relay.
+ goes to the R (for current limiting), the other end of R goes to the anode of your LED.
I would use a 2-wire shielded cable, shield to chassis, 2 wires are + and -

[daveyajd]

Ok. I've almost got it all figured out. Here is my new wiring diagram. This puts signal at my relay coil when the switches are flipped. The LED on the front lights up. Perfect!


Now I don't really understand where I will connect the power to my footswitch jack. Right to the tip?


Aaron

[shooter]

where I will connect the power to my footswitch jack

Same as your panel, except it's *remote*.  you have 2 parallel conditions to activate your relay, in digital logic you have an *OR* circuit, 1 or the other switches will light the led(s), turn on the relay.  Which part of the jack you use is up to you.  I would use a stereo jack, sleeve = chassis(shield), ring = PS ground, tip = PS+

[daveyajd]

Ok. There is a disconnect in this process for me. My current wiring takes 5v directly from the PS and puts it on one side of the coil. Then the switches are used to close the circuit by connecting my PS ground with the other side of the coil. Yes? Then my LED is wired across the coil so as its energized it lights up. But in my current wiring the + side of the PS never makes it to my cliff jack. Therefore no LED could work on the footswitch box. Right? That's where I'm struggling. How to get power down there? Maybe just reverse what I'm running to the switch? Run ground directly to the coil and switch the + side? Then how do I connect the sleeve on the jack? Thanks for helping me try to get this figured out.

I just want an LED in my footswitch!😁

Aaron

[shooter]

do you have it wired and working like this?

http://el34world.com/projects/relay_switch.htm

I missed a key part

Now I am using Doug's relay PS and board

[daveyajd]

Yes. I wired everything up just like that and it works. But I look at the drawing on that same page that shows how to wire and LED in the footswitch and I can't figure out where to send my power. I feel like the cliff jack already has the ground signal on it.

Aaron

[shooter]

****IF you have a floating ground DO NOT do this, Otherwise*****;

Ok, now *re-wire* like this, I think, it's early and coffee has NOT reached my brain.  In this config IF either switch is closed BOTH leds will light and relay engages.  The ONLY way the leds and relay get turned off is if both switches are OFF

I personally would still use stereo jacks and plugs and 2 conductor shielded cable., tip = +, Ring = -, and sleeve = shield

[daveyajd]

I have a floating ground I believe. That seems to be the recommended approach with these relays.

Aaron

[PRR]

Reversing polarity leaves you in the same spot.

Putting LEDs _in_ the pedal is non-trivial.

The plan in Doug's Library requires _3_ wires/contacts to the pedal, not the traditional 2.

There are reasons nearly all amp makers went to the absurdly complicated switching seen today. (I just saw one which sends 27V AC to the pedal!! Makes a royal BUZZ if you set it next to effects.)

[daveyajd]

Can I send my 5v down my ring connection?

Aaron

[PRR]

> Can I send my 5v down my ring connection?

That's steady 5V? Where do you send back the status signal?

"Stereo" TRS is one way. But show starts in 3 minutes. Where did I put that TRS cable?

Yeah, I can forget my pants too.  But when I can avoid trying to remember odd bits of kit, I like that better.

Ponder this:

[daveyajd]

 

The plan in Doug's Library requires _3_ wires/contacts to the pedal, not the traditional 2.

How is that wired? My current wiring is from the schematic on Doug's relay page but it doesn't quite get it done. I am using a stereo cliff jack. And I will take the chance with a missing TRS cable. 😉

Aaron

[shooter]

Look at the pic I posted in reply#9,  you  need 2 wires *in*,  + and -, then 1 wire *out*,  switched - .
It can be done with stereo jacks awkwardly by doing something like *send return*, but that requires a jack *out* to pedal and a 2nd jack *in* from pedal.  Otherwise you need 3 wire shielded with some type of 3 conductor jack - trs?

[daveyajd]

But your disclaimer says NOT to if I have a floating ground. Which I do. Look at the attached picture. With the exception of the DIN type jack and multiple relays this is how mine is wired. It shows an LED on the footswitch jack but it won't work that way. There is still no power on the footswitch.

Aaron

[daveyajd]

Here are two more diagrams. One is from Dougs page and is what I used to figure my wiring out. The other is a diagram by Tubenit I believe. It shows the + going to the jack but no ground.

Aaron

[shooter]

but no ground

Use the diagram in post 17, dougs for the following;
look again, start *in* the PS, the4700uF cap.  The *top* of the cap is +, the *bottom* of the cap is -.

now start at the bottom side of the cap, go right till you run into the relay, extra points going through the relay back to the TOP of the cap, make sense?

[daveyajd]

Yes. That picture of Dougs works perfectly. That is my current wiring situation. But as I see that one, the + side of the cap goes directly to the relay coil. Then the - side is wired so that a closed switch completes the circuit allowing the relay coil to have a "charge" if you will. Right? That all works great. But I don't see an LED on the footswitch. In fact that is only a two wire cable going to the footswitch.

Aaron

[daveyajd]

Alright. Maybe I need to look at this from the footswitch side of things. So I took some measurements for voltages on that switch. Turns out when the switch is on I do have 5 volts at both connections. The switch I have is a TS plug. So, if I got/built a TRS type footswitch could I send my ground back down the ring and to the relay coil? PS ground?


Aaron

[sluckey]

Wire it like the attached pdf.   ***DO NOT CONNECT ANY PART OF THIS TO CHASSIS GROUND***

[daveyajd]

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yeeesss!


That is exactly what needed to happen. All I needed was a TRS type footswitch and 5v run to the ring. Thank you so much everyone for helping me figure this out. This is great news for the new build and...... now I can easily open up my first TOS build, add that wire to the ring and have a LED footswitch. Thank you guys!


Aaron

[shooter]

Gotta love when the light bulb moment happens!  enjoy

[daveyajd]

Well, not as easy as I thought it would be to add this to my original TOS. Since I used the weber relay on that one I don't have direct access to the + signal. Oh well.

Aaron

[sluckey]

Well, not as easy as I thought it would be to add this to my original TOS. Since I used the weber relay on that one I don't have direct access to the + signal. Oh well.

Aaron

Finding the + voltage should be straightforward but you may have to solder a wire to a diode or resistor lead. Which Weber board do you have? Can you post a high rez pic?

[daveyajd]

I thought so too. You helped me get my LED working on that amp by taking leads off of the diode. I thought I could get power from my terminal strip(pictured) but when connected that to the ring on my cliff jack I'm not getting the LED to light. Maybe I need to return that somehow different than I have it connected currently. Bring my ground back to the - on my terminal strip? My wiring for that weber relay is pictured in one of the first posts in this thread.

Aaron

[sluckey]

Connect an isolated TRS jack to the relay board like the pic and you should be able to use your already built footswitch.

Notice I put a red circle and a blue circle on the board. I believe the red circled eyelet connects to the diode and can be used for the +5 volt wire. Likewise, the blue circled eyelet connects to the switch wire. I may have that backwards. So, use your ohm meter to see which eyelet has zero ohms to the diode cathode. Mark that eyelet as +5V. Now check to see if the other eyelet reads zero ohms to the switch terminal. If so, mark that eyelet as switch. Now you can use these two eyelets to connect to the TRS jack.

[daveyajd]

That's great. Thank you. It seems this is how I have it hooked up but it still isn't working. I pulled my 5v from the terminal strip that my panel LED is connected to. I need to open my footswitch and check with my DMM.

Aaron

[sluckey]

Disconnect the front panel LED. Does the LED in the footswitch work now?

[daveyajd]

Finally got a chance to try that. Disconnected the LED cathode from the CLR since with my wiring that was the quickest and easiest. Sent power to my "ring" and still no footswitch LED.

Aaron

[shooter]

still no footswitch LED.

 
with the FS unplugged from amp, but cable plugged into FS, ohm across the Tip and ring at the end that would plug into amp, then flip your leads and re-ohm , one direction should be lowish ohms, the other direction, lots higher.  post the values. 
refer to Sluckeys pdf in reply 21