Scratch Build Carlsbro ----- TC60

[HighFlyingV]

[I have been searching for a home for this idea.
I posted on 18watt because I thought it would be a good idea to scale it down.
That being said it It is EL34 based and the more I think about it seems like a clone would be a better solution may need a VVR.
[
This one is a 2 channel , I would need to redraw the schematic to reflect single channel. I had been given the idea to build a EL84 1974x (scaled down ) and tweak it to the tone of the TC60 ?

http://m.imgur.com/gallery/UDhYGnV

[sluckey]

We like ideas. Come on in and drag up a chair. Take your shoes off and sit a spell.

[HighFlyingV]

Cool

[HighFlyingV]

What are anyone's thoughts on building this as a 1974 TMB single channel , get it up and running and then tweak it to please ?

[silverfox]

Incredible amp. A couple of references for those interested.

http://emaushenric.benesser.se/?cat=37

A Demo: ! No longer available

I like the simplicity of this amp. I don't know what sort of mods are done yet. I'll be trying to find out from the posted data.

edit: upon closer inspection, the circuit values have been "Dumblized"

silverfox.

[kagliostro]

Ciao HighFlyingV

Yesterday I've read your post and was convinced you are interested on the Carlsbro cs40 / 50 top



but I had nothing about to share, if instead you are interested on the CS60 TC, here you can find some documentation about a rebuild


(there is also a layout)





on this thread scroll down a bit to find the CS60 TC (post by bill bokey)

http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,castle-made-of-sound-reparation-modification-d-amplis,483575,20.html

Franco

[HighFlyingV]

Ciao HighFlyingV

Yesterday I've read your post and was convinced you are interested on the Carlsbro cs40 / 50 top



but I had nothing about to share, if instead you are interested on the CS60 TC, here you can find some documentation about a rebuild


(there is also a layout)





on this thread scroll down a bit to find the CS60 TC (post by bill bokey)

http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,castle-made-of-sound-reparation-modification-d-amplis,483575,20.html

Franco

Yes you are right , I'm sorry about that. I was going to leave the original and decided it would complicate things. Someone told me the top 100 was a slave amp ?
Did you draw that whole thing out , if you did I am real sorry.

[HighFlyingV]

This guy has a blog with actual gut shots of one he modded. It sounds good modded:
! No longer available

[sluckey]

I had been given the idea to build a EL84 1974x (scaled down ) and tweak it to the tone of the TC60 ?

Those transformers are not suited to an EL84 amp. Are you thinking about modding this existing amp or were you gonna just build a separate amp based on this schematic?

[kagliostro]

Did you draw that whole thing out , if you did I am real sorry.

Hell NO ! 

I've find the documentation and only shared the link

Franco

[HighFlyingV]

I had been given the idea to build a EL84 1974x (scaled down ) and tweak it to the tone of the TC60 ?

Those transformers are not suited to an EL84 amp. Are you thinking about modding this existing amp or were you gonna just build a separate amp based on this schematic?

yes sir , build a seperate amp. I don't need a 50w amp but it does sound glorious to me.
I would try to keep it simple as possible to start out.
Probably build right from a Stout. Tmb and get it working first , right ?

[HighFlyingV]

Unless I build it with the EL34's . I would need a layout 

[HighFlyingV]

I had been given the idea to build a EL84 1974x (scaled down ) and tweak it to the tone of the TC60 ?

Those transformers are not suited to an EL84 amp. Are you thinking about modding this existing amp or were you gonna just build a separate amp based on this schematic?

sluckery If I did copy the TC60 (one channel) with EL34's what would I use for PT and OT?

[HighFlyingV]

Ciao HighFlyingV

Yesterday I've read your post and was convinced you are interested on the Carlsbro cs40 / 50 top



but I had nothing about to share, if instead you are interested on the CS60 TC, here you can find some documentation about a rebuild


(there is also a layout)





on this thread scroll down a bit to find the CS60 TC (post by bill bokey)

http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,castle-made-of-sound-reparation-modification-d-amplis,483575,20.html

Franco

Franco ,this the TC60 layout ? If I build this to that layout once figure out the Transformers and choke I can move forward.

[kagliostro]

You must read the thread from which the layout comes from, those I posted previously

http://www.guitariste.com/forums/amplification,castle-made-of-sound-reparation-modification-d-amplis,483575,20.html

---

One thing, I don't think is useful to repurpose in each post what was previously posted, this way the thread becomes hard to be read

Ciao

Franco

[sluckey]

I would use the Marshall 50 watt PT and OT available from Hoffman. (Link at bottom of this page)

[kagliostro]

Oh, the thread is in french, not english ......


OK, the amp was a Carlsbro PA100 missing of some components (as transformers) and was converted in a CS60 that the guy liked more than the PA100, he say that he copied the layout from an original CS60 he had under hands previously


Franco

[HighFlyingV]

Thanks Franco , and good advice. I know little about the old  Carlsbro amps and their layouts because they are not so common in the states . The particular player of interest (Bill Nelson) played a Top 100.
I don't know the difference between the Top 100/50 and the TC60 . I have seen the term TC60Cs , I know TC is twin channel. I have seen that top 100 is 4 hole no big deal.
The TC has Bass Treble for each channel.
Yes , that site is in French . I could look at with Google translate.?
As of this point I am going to build the TC60 as it is drawn. I have to decide if I want 2 channels.

[kagliostro]

The two channels are very close each other but not perfectly the same

in the upper channel the coupling cap is .01 and the mix resistor is 330K

in the lower channel the coupling cap is .047 and the mix resistor is 470K bypassed with a 500pf cap

you can build one channel, add a switch to change the coupling cap value and tailor the mix resistor + bypass cap at your taste

you must only cut out the existing layout as to have only one channel

Franco


p.s.: I took a look to the layout .... seems that there are differences if compared to the CS60-TC schematic, it recall the PA60 schematic, see the common cathode resistor and bypass cap

[HighFlyingV]

Franco , I have found a little info digging around. It seems that the layout of this is integral as is every part to the tone. For Example cutting the channel ,channel 1 is clean and 2 is more driven , one of them is   wired for a bright channel and the channels can be jumped. It has bass and treble on each channel and the top cut. I can't explain how it works because I just don't have the knowledge like lot's of you guys here.
The guy that you posted from France (Bill Bokey) has several youtube videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ragJ46w9r8

One other I found is redundant (same chords) but it does show different channel tones with a tele.It does help that it fairly clean :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8pgOff4R_I

[kagliostro]

I wrote to Bill and he told me that the resistor and bypass capacitor ov V1 & V2 are shared, so the layout follows the schematic

give a look to this schematic as to understand better



and then look to the previous schematic



and note that V1 & V2 cathode resistors are labeled as R1 & R1- C1 (the other is missing) and R2 & R2 - C2 & C2

Bill has a personal site here (if you want you can contact him, he is a very kind person)

http://www.castlemadeofsound.com/

---

The preamp are very close each other, the difference is one feed the PI via a 330K mix resistor, the other via a 470K mix resistor bypassed by a 500pf cap, obviously the signal feeded via the 330K resistor appears to be strongher that that feeded via the 470K resistor

---

If you want you can use only two input jack and use a switch to feed one channel or the other or both at the same time, Sluckey used a C & K 7211 ON-ON-ON switch to perform this thing in a Vox AC15 he has build (very cool amp http://sluckeyamps.com/VAC15/ac15.htm - http://sluckeyamps.com/VAC15/Vox_AC15_mods.pdf)

Franco

[HighFlyingV]

 

[HighFlyingV]

I would contact him but there is a language barrier.
I would do tagstrip. Follow his layout.

[kagliostro]

He reads also english (if you try to be simple)

Tagstrips, yes, doable, why not eyelet or turret ?




Franco

[HighFlyingV]

I have never done an eyelet board but it doesn't look to hard.

[kagliostro]

The more difficult thing is to draw the hole position with the right distances

then an eyelet board is easy to be build

Franco

[HighFlyingV]

It looks like it takes 700v secondary 350 - 0 - 350 to get 460v on the power B+. Hammond makes a 273x or 273bx ( higher ma) 201ma which sounds to high to me. Franco , like you said the choke and placement of the choke is very important is amp according to Bill. I spoke him on Facebook.

[kagliostro]

I don't know the spec of the original OT, however 201mA didn't seems too much for that amp, may be 300-350mA is a better choice (to me)

here is the application data of EL34 tubes, give it a look



I would like to read the opinion of someone that is more skilled than I'm

Franco

[HighFlyingV]

Marshall JTM 50 power by classic tone has 150ma which has 5 tubes.

[HighFlyingV]

I have a plan , I just happened on a blank chassis but it's only 16 × 8 x 2 . I will get a universal board.
Seriously looking at Edcor iron.

[kagliostro]

Wait for the opinion of other, but to me it is short, 16" seems short for a 5 tube amp, also if you have an 8" on the other measure


Franco

[sluckey]

My Dual Lite and Plexi 6V6 both have 6 tubes. Chassis are 12.5" x 6.5" x 2.5".

[HighFlyingV]

I might get back to this idea but as someone pointed out somewhere build a 18w lite llb and then change the pre amp to the Carlsbro pre amp. And be done.
From the Top 50 Carlsbro
http://imgur.com/a/akKOZ