Partial refret

[tubenit]

I've built a couple of guitar necks so I have a reasonable understanding of the basics of setting up a neck and installing frets. 

Having said that,  I've never done a partial refret or a full refret before.  I've watched some YouTubes on it that have been useful.  I've got at least 5 frets that I think are beyond leveling and crowning and should be replaced.

Have any of you guys done a partial refret before and were you happy with how your first attempt at it turned out?  Any tips to be mindful of?

Do you hammer/press in new frets or glue them in?

With respect, Jeff

[Ed_Chambley]

I have never been happy with a partial re-fret.  Not where you are not just fixing a hump or something.  I much prefer to remove all of them because it gives me the opportunity to sand smooth the fingerboard.  My playing style causes divots on the fingerboard from my index finger.  After I check to make sure I still have enough depth to "press" frets back in.


I glued frets once as I heard Paul Reed Smith saying you get a better transference to the neck.  I did not notice any difference and did not use stainless frets.  I have since reworked the frets and had to use a heat strip to remove them and they still did not come out as clean as I would have hoped.


So I simply do it the old way now.  Replace them all.  Level them with a long piece of Corian with sandpaper attached and sharpie across each fret.  Let the corian do the work until I get a shiny streak on all frets and then I apply a little pressure to sand the frets past the 12th fret.


I did a stainless fret job recently using Jascar frets 94 wide and 52 high, tall and thin wires.  The guitar did not get any brighter as some say and I really like the feel.  They are very smooth, but it is a bear to crown and polish them.  I did not glue them.


Just my 2¢

[tubenit]

Ed,

I always appreciate hearing from you!  THANKS for sharing your experience.  The fingerboard on this guitar is Pau Ferro and I don't see any dips or humps anywhere, just some worn out fret wire. 

It's an old Warmoth neck that is compound radius and I don't have all the radius block sizes  10-16" to sand the neck and return it to a compound radius. I've thought about just going to a 12" radius and refretting the entire board.

However, at this juncture, I'm going to try a refret and see what happens?  IF I don't like it, I'll do the entire board & just make it a 12" radius to save costs.

I am taking it from your experience, that new fret wire will press into the fret slots OK or hammer in OK and gluing is not necessary?

The photo with Tele in middle is the one I'm doing first.  I think the quilt maple one just needs a leveling and recrown.

Best regards, Jeff

[Ed_Chambley]

I did not know you were speaking compound radius.  I really like compound radius on fast neck guitars.  The fret wires will hold fine in the same slot providing removal goes smoothly.  You can just make sure you align the tabs differently.


As well as you work, I believe you shouldn't have any problems.


I finally sent my pride and joy Les Paul to Glasier in Nashville as I have been curious about having one Plek'ed.  I had just leveled the ebony fingerboard and used 12" radius installed some Dunlop 6105's.  Of course the action needed to be reset as he used Gibson specs which I said to do.


I have to say the process is well worth the cost when re-fretting.  I never considered a Les Paul a hod rod guitar with a fast neck, but I am thrilled with the outcome.  Most things I do myself, but my Father gave the the guitar which never left his house.  I think it is a 69, but I have never checked to be sure.  The old Gibsons are getting to be worth so much I am sort of afraid of working it myself.


BTW, I really love your guitar builds as I am a sucker for translucent finishes.

[tubenit]

Thanks Ed!  I appreciate the information about the refretting.  It will be a few weeks or more before I get to it, but I'll post the results and my experience when done and try to take a few pictures showing before and after.

Man, if my dad had given me an old Les Paul like that, I would have taken it to somebody well beyond my expertise also.
What a cool guitar and gift!

Best regards, Jeff

[G._Hoffman]

Generally (and there are exceptions), we advise against partial refrets.  The problem is, once you've replaced the bad frets, you need to cut the new frets down to the height of the old ones, and you loose some of the life from the new frets.  Plus, you loose any chance to correct any problems with the fingerboard.  It is always a better job to refret the entire fingerboard; and since you need to dress the entire fingerboard anyway, you don't save much money.


Gabriel

[drgonzonm]

Dan Erlewine (early wine), has a website and tools that might assist you in your partial refret. 

I found his book "Guitar repair guide" at the local library.  It contained a DVD, that you may also find helpful

Good Luck. 

[tubenit]

Well, it turned out that it didn't need a partial refret after all.  I simply leveled it and crowned the frets.  Took me about 3 hrs to do so but I am very happy with the results.  A real luthier (like Gabe  ) would probably cringe on how I did this but it worked fine for me and it wasn't very expensive.

I used a metal 12" ruler (that I checked to be truly level and accurate) as a starting place to simply get the removed neck straight.

Then I used a precise fret level device to check for rocking and there was only one small spot. 

Then I used the fret file to level it.  Then I used the crowning file some. Then more fret file to level.  Then more crowning file.  And I used a metal whet stone that was fairly fine very lightly to remove file scratches. I kept going back and forth taking my time because I didn't want to remove more metal then needed.  I did the black permanent marker marking the fret wire thing to see how level things were with both crowning and leveling.

In the end,  I had .042 height and .102 width.  I used digital calipers to measure to make sure I had enough fret wire height for me.

Once I got the divets out of the frets.  I spent a considerable amount of time learning how to use the crowning file appropriately to reshape a round fret. This was the most time consuming for me.  And I think it turned out reasonably well.  I'd give it a B grade.

I kept using the precise fret measuring tool thru out all of this to check frets for being level.

Then I took an orbital sander (eyes roll in disbelief) and very very lightly buzzed the frets. Yeah, that actually worked out OK, but I don't think I'd recommend anyone to try it. Then I took 400 grit and then 1000 grit paper rolled around a finger to "polish" the fret wire.  I will say that I was quite surprised that 400 and 1000 grit sandpaper would sand the metal frets like it did. I am thinking the fretwire is actually pretty soft material?

I will play the guitar a few weeks and then if I am still pleased with it  (and I anticipate that I will be), then I'll do my other Tele.

Today, I went back and polished the frets with some car polish and using a dremel cotton (?) buffing wheel.  I used the metal fret board protectors that go over/around the frets.  Took maybe under 3-5 minutes to get it all done. They had a pretty high shine to them when done.

With respect, Jeff

[G._Hoffman]

I will say that I was quite surprised that 400 and 1000 grit sandpaper would sand the metal frets like it did. I am thinking the fretwire is actually pretty soft material?

Nickel-silver is a very soft metal, but higher grits work fine on metal - better than they do on raw wood, to be sure.  Wood comes apart unevenly, but they very orderly crystal structure of metals means they react very predictably.  And the oxides used for finer sandpaper are very hard - silicon carbide is nearly artificial diamond.


Gabriel

[tubenit]

Nickel-silver is a very soft metal, but higher grits work fine on metal - better than they do on raw wood, to be sure.  Wood comes apart unevenly, but they very orderly crystal structure of metals means they react very predictably.  And the oxides used for finer sandpaper are very hard - silicon carbide is nearly artificial diamond.

Thanks for the info!  I did not know that.  I appreciate the great wealth of knowledge of luthiery that you share of the forum.

Best regards,  Jeff

[drgonzonm]

That four sided object you posted looks like one of erlewine's tools.  It appears you are already familiar with Erlewine's work.   

[tubenit]

Yes, I bought his book many yrs ago when it first came out. I guess I started building guitars around '87?.

[tubenit]

I thought I'd give an update.  This neck now plays better then any electric guitar I have previously owned and/or built.

I am quite surprised that polishing the frets improves the playability so significantly but it does.  I will NOT hesitate to do this on future guitar necks.

Jeff

[tubenit]

Got around to doing another neck.  Used the same method.  Turned out fantastic!  Very very pleased with it.  Did not have to replace frets and simply recrowned them.  Took a little more time to polish the frets at the end with car polish and a buffing wheel on a dremel tool.  Very easy to do with nice results.

With respect, Tubenit

[jjasilli]