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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: which OT?  (Read 4865 times)

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Offline 12AX7

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which OT?
« on: December 12, 2016, 09:38:34 am »
I want to replace the OT in my amp with a 6V6 plexi style output section because it's not optimal at 4k and no 8 ohm trap while all my speakers are 8 ohm. I'm in a rather dire financial situation right now so $, even a small amount is something to consider but at the same time i don't want to save 10 or 20 bucks if one is likely to be  to be a definite improvement over the other. Anyways, i want a beefier OT than the usual deluxe so i was looking at this trainwreck style and fender brownface style. The fender replaces the 4 ohm tap with a 2.67, but i never plug in a second speaker so thats not important. Both are right around or at 6k primary so no big diff there. The main differences aside from the lower tap value is TW has a bell while the fender doesn't, and the fender style is 40w vs the TW at 30. Not sure how either of those things will affect it but i'd like to hear opinions....what would you get and why? Take note my amp's pre is a cascaded style and thats where i get my OD. Output should stay *relatively* clean.

Offline sluckey

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2016, 10:40:25 am »
Hoffman used the Heyboer 18 watt OT in his Plexi6V6. The Heyboer Deluxe OT would also be a good choice.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2016, 10:51:25 am »
But those are almost 1/2 the rated watts. Mine is 30 and i wanted to keep it at that or more. Yes, i know that spec doesn't mean that the wattage you will get with all else considered. But i want as clean and high an output as possible so as to not have the output taking over OD duties from a preamp i spend a long time getting right where i like it. Also, heyboers are likely to be a lot more i'm sure. Thats what i have now and it was costly for the time i bought it. (15 years ago maybe)

Offline shooter

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2016, 11:21:24 am »
http://www.edcorusa.com/cxpp25-8k
$8 more for muti tap
I've used standard "guitar" ot, Hammond and edcor, if you have the 6wks to wait, it's worth it
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline sluckey

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2016, 11:38:50 am »
Go to the Hammond website and pick out exactly what you want.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline J Rindt

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 10:40:23 pm »
I MIGHT Have an OT i could send you for shipping.
What reflected Impedance are you looking for.?

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2016, 10:09:24 am »
I MIGHT Have an OT i could send you for shipping.
What reflected Impedance are you looking for.?

I appreciate the offer, but i'm considering this because i feel mine could be improved since the primary and secondaries aren't optimal so i want to find just the right one or i'd rather just leave it as is. I need a 8 ohm tap and a primary of around 6k, but i especially want a 30 watt or higher OT. I want it to hold together at stage volumes unlike many 6V6X2 amps do. I just posted this to see what people think between the 2 i linked but no one has commented on them.

Offline sluckey

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2016, 10:18:45 am »
I just posted this to see what people think between the 2 i linked but no one has commented on them.
You never provided a link.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2016, 12:20:13 pm »

Offline Ugly Distortion

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 04:52:18 am »
You are not cloning an extant amp so there’s no off the shelf answer just different people's tastes, you just have to close your eyes and pick one. Or read through some forums and see what others did with 6V6 Plexis. Isn’t there a well documented Mark Huss 6V6 Plexi? Trinity? Peeps on TAG? (Be brave, fear not the malware).

Of course you want it to sound like a Marshall not a small tweed, so I would rule out the 108 Tweed Deluxe OT. Marshall used good interleaved iron, originally RS middling hifi iron, and as you said you want it to hold together. Fender, the 6V6 king, seemed to use 8K on the tweed cathode bias amps and 6.6k on the later fixed biased amps but that isn’t consistent either, 8K would suggest cleaner but maybe 6.6K has some mojo with fixed bias, or maybe it was about the higher voltages after the tweed era. Too big it can have too much bass and sound really wrong, or be too clear with buzzy saturation rather than grind.

I would look at the Allen BF Deluxe OTs, he has a couple versions of beefiness <http://www.allenamps.com/parts.php#transformers> I have not had good luck with the bigger Hammond 1600 HiFi OTs in guitar amps but the 1608 might be worth a try along with their BF Deluxe. Careful with the Edcors they are rated like the Hammond 1600s at 20Hz or 30Hz so they are bigger than you might expect, more like a 50W guitar OT, that’s why the 1608 might be a good choice here, it's more like 20W iron. The 30W might be too much transformer. The Edcors sound good but not like other vintage knock off trannies, i.e. it may sound good but not much like an old Marshall. I like them but they are not the best for cloning. The TW Express was made to run 6V6s along w/ EL34 so that would be a good option, a paper wound version might be a littler more vintage sounding maybe Classictone or Mojo Heyboer. All those Express OTs are supposedly copies of a Stancor but from the PA line not their Hifi line so it might not be too much iron and a good choice. There’s a JTM45 RS clone out there with both 8K and 6.6K taps that could work, that OT’s not all that big, like the Express in size. You'll have to decide whether M6 lams or not, always good on a PT, on an OT sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not. Have fun, collect them all.

BTW you might never plug an other speaker in but for DIY it’s a really good idea to have 4/8/16 taps. You can also mismatch the secs to run EL34 if you like. All the trannies I ever had that got ebay’d or left on the shelf were the single secondary ones. Get something versatile and if you don't like it you can use it in an other build.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 05:03:07 am by Ugly Distortion »

Offline shooter

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 08:24:05 am »
Quote
so there’s no off the shelf answer
+1
I'm using a twin OT(80W rated) in a 25W amp, I'm also using 2 4W rated OTs in a 10W amp
both work great for the intended results.
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 09:59:22 am »
Can anyone tell me what they thing the tonal/feel change would be as you go from a higher primary like 8k down to lower like 6k, all else being equal? I'm thinking the higher you go, the harder and brighter the attack, and the lower the smoother and rounder.

Offline J Rindt

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2016, 02:40:54 pm »
I MIGHT Have an OT i could send you for shipping.
What reflected Impedance are you looking for.?

I appreciate the offer, but i'm considering this because i feel mine could be improved since the primary and secondaries aren't optimal so i want to find just the right one or i'd rather just leave it as is. I need a 8 ohm tap and a primary of around 6k, but i especially want a 30 watt or higher OT. I want it to hold together at stage volumes unlike many 6V6X2 amps do. I just posted this to see what people think between the 2 i linked but no one has commented on them.

I have an OT that ran 2x EL34 in a Ceriatone Wreck clone.
Either 5k2 or 6k5....... :dontknow:

Offline silverfox

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2016, 03:06:59 pm »
18064 TW Output transformers. I bought two from Amp Parts Direct in Florida at $150. delivered. The published rating is 30 watts but I've been told and believe, based on the mass of these OT, they are rated for much more. I like the tone I get from the amp. I'm using them at 460 V with two 6L6. I'd buy them again especially if I can find them for $66. ea plus shipping.

silverfox.

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2016, 03:43:42 pm »
18064 TW Output transformers. I bought two from Amp Parts Direct in Florida at $150. delivered. The published rating is 30 watts but I've been told and believe, based on the mass of these OT, they are rated for much more. I like the tone I get from the amp. I'm using them at 460 V with two 6L6. I'd buy them again especially if I can find them for $66. ea plus shipping.

silverfox.

Thanks, thats the way I've been leaning. For one, TW amps are highly praised for thier tone so i gotta think thats a good sign since these are likely designed as closely to them as possible. The only fear is when you mention "mass". My combo literally hasn't got room for the OT to be a hair bigger, as it it just touches the speaker frame as is. And the speaker is in the lower corner of the baffle and cannot be moved further out of the way. I may be able to move the OT, but only slightly b4 it hits a 6V6. So i'll go check the dimensions at the classictone site and see if i think it'll fit.

EDIT: it looks like i would have to move the OT closer to the PT. Right now they are separated by a little over and inch, and i would have to put them about 1/4" apart, 1/2" at the most. Anyone thing that may be an issue?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 04:01:21 pm by 12AX7 »

Offline silverfox

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2016, 04:41:36 pm »
On my build I place one of the OT a couple of inches from the PT and that seems to be the only source of hum in the amp. Not bad or too noticeable at low volume, but it's there. The downside of the large mass. Very inductive.

silverfox.

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2016, 05:19:43 pm »
Why do you use 2 OT's, or if thats not the case why is there what appears to be a OT on the left. Can't be a choke as big as it is?

Offline shooter

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2016, 08:34:53 pm »
I used this hogger on a stereo KT88
Went Class C for efficiency

Offline silverfox

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2016, 08:57:31 pm »
Why do you use 2 OT's, ?

It's a stereo power amp.

I was trying to indicate the fact, one of my OT is farther then the dimension you may be placing yours from the PT. You might get significantly more hum from your amp if the OT is too close to the PT. I'm fairly certain it's the inductance as the hum is 60hz and it appears with all the tubes removed as soon as I bring the power up a little on the Variac, (while testing). As I mentioned, not bad, (hum), but much closer and it could be significantly more noticeable.

silverfox.

Offline 12AX7

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Re: which OT?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2017, 07:50:31 pm »
Sorry to bring this back up, but i just had to say i got the classictone trainwreck style OT i linked and i'll be damned if the difference isn't night and day ! No doubt it's mostly the fact the old OT is a mismatch for 2 6V6's but whatever it is it did EXACTLY what i thought it would if my calculations were correct. The tone is so transparent and smooth now it;s like a different amp. Mostly in feel where it now just feels so light on the fingers if u know what i mean. I was on the verge of just tossing it in storage and buying a marshall but i took a chance and i'm really glad i did. A 6V6 JCM800 is one heck of a lot more manageable than the real EL34 thing !

 


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