Hash Tag, Guitar necks for bedroom heroes;

[Cree]

Sorry for the long post.
So you want to repair or replace a guitar neck or build a parts-o-caster.
   This is going to be a bit long post. I feel that someone out there can learn from my over-site. (nice word for huge mistakes).
    Disclaimer, I am no Guitar specialist, just made some huge mistakes.  Being more interested in learning about home brew tube amp building than anything for the past many years. I thought I would ck out this forum, as I didn't feel the love on other forums. Turns out, to me, this is a great forum, with a lot of great members, who are willing to help with just about anything you could ask. Instead of making fun of a newbie with a oddball question.
   Moving on, in reality I never cared for the Fender Strat, I do love the Tele though. I have had 2 Strat type guitars but they just were not my thing, until I played a friends, American Strat last year. After that I got the bug to see if a Fender Stratocaster was something I would want. Turns out, heck yea, loved it. A Cheep-o build from a pawn shop got me going, and my wife gave me a awesome unfinished Fender Strat 2 piece Ash body. Now with that in hand, I might be able to get my hands on a good (real) Fender Strat even if I had to build it myself. So I posted a “help needed” in this forum and the response was overwhelming. I got a huge amount of info there, It is a must read if you want to know a bit about the Fender Strat, necks and such. http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=22513.msg240369#msg240369.
   So I started looking for a neck for my project guitar, a Strat type build that would look and sound like a Strat. I was wanting to piece together a Strat clone. Why, because I never will be able to afford a real one, straight out.  So, this post is to try and help someone from the mistakes I have made. All said and done, I will have about that much in JUST the neck and the cost of having it setup. Hang me now.
   Weather you are planing on building a project guitar from scratch. Or wanting a new neck for that old fret worn guitar you cherish so much. The hunt for a new neck can be quite a eye opener.
   What could I tell you, you do not already know? Good question. This post is not so much for those who have already built the project guitar of their dreams, and have the necessary tools to make that neck play great, but for us bedroom guitar heroes planing on building one or just getting a new neck for what ever reason.
   First there are no bolt on string up and go play necks out there. Yep I said it, nope, not one, no where.  No matter who you buy from, no matter you builds it, no matter what, it is not plug and play. Even $1000.00  necks from [url =http://www.stratosphereparts.com] stratosphereparts[url]  will need some adjustment on the body, setup you have put together. Unless you are happy with what ever you happen get, and don't care if your fingers bleed from the cuts you get from a bad fret end. I just wanted something nice, no hi frets, no buzz, no sharp ends, better than, off than shelf average. Ha! not going to happen.

[Cree]

Necks are the most important, most personal part of the whole. If the neck is not right your guitar is not right.

Neck builders; Most builders ie. www.usacustomguitars.com, www.warmoth.com, www.musikraft.com, www.bhefner.com, www.kieselguitars.com. Will build to your specs, (somewhat) as they all try to fit you and me into a easy build, one size fits all CNC neck, saying,  'this is our most popular profile”, or, “this is very close / similar to a PRS, Gibson or the current Fender profile (what ever they think will get you to turn loose of those hard earned dollars.)”.  Each one has its good and bad points, or let's say, “custom build offerings”, all have their run of the mill build. A typical neck from each will in the end, cost about the same one way or another. One gets you on the cost of Rosewood, one on the cost of a nut, one on the cost of a finish, extra cost for compound radius or extra cost for a straight radius, what the heck?. None will warranty the neck if it's not finished to their specs.  Right now 2/2018,  Musikraft has droped some of their custom features due to streamlining, citing “demand”, plus build time is 4-6 weeks. You want off the shelf, order it today get it quick, go with Warmoth and shop their in stock builds. Usacustomguitars is not a licensed Fender builder, their headstock is close but not a Fender clone. Kiesel is not a  licensed Fender builder, but builds their own line and does offer other head stock designs, some of which are good looking, and the Kiesel is a thin C profile. Wanting a bolt on for a Gibson type build? Warmoth has it, Kiesel has a great looking 3 on a side head stock design with a Ebony fretboard, standard, which is cool. Cost in the end still about the same. All will also say this, You (the end user) will have to have a “fret level, crown and polish to achieve a great playing neck, hi frets are not a defect”. With the exception of Kiesel, they say their necks are good to go. Only one offers to do a fret level, crown and polish as part of the custom offerings for your new neck. Bhefner, offers this fret level and polish for a $120.00 add on. But, and I hate to say this, you still have to fit the nut to the strings you want to use.  NO MATTER, who builds your new neck, the nut will have to be cut for your strings, neck radius and action preference, as most all after market Fender type nuts come in only a pre-cut 7.5” or 9.5” radius, want a 10 or a 12 it has to be cut.     

[Cree]

       Frets and Nuts; So as part of your build and your budget, you ether need to buy the tools, ie. nut files, fret rockers, fret crowning files, and figure this in the final budget or find a local Luthier who you trust, to do it for you, and figure in his cost plus wait time in to your budget. NOTE: Let me tell you the torch tip cleaners that some say are nut files, ARE NOT. They are for cleaning, cutting torch tips and they are worthless for cutting a guitar nut to specs. They will do in a pinch and they somewhat will polish the grove once the nut has been cut.  If you have done it with those things, and it turned out great, tell me if we ever meet and I will give you a Hi five, and a good old pal hug, heck I'll buy you a Cola. For the rest of us, save the $6.00 for a happy meal, and have someone who has the proper tools do it for you.
   Strings and Nuts; If you like or want .009 string sets on your new neck, you are going to pay extra. Because very few luthiers have the proper nut files for .009 string sets, (very few), they will cut your nut but they will use .010 files and not tell you.  .009, .011,.016, .024, .032, .042. Is the average sizes for a .009 set. Only one company offers those sizes as a set,  Ibanez,  that .009 set of nut files will set you back $120.00 +$8 shipping, I missed a sale on that set, back right before Christmas, I could just spit. Now if you like .010's, your in luck. Ibanez offers that set for about $60.00 + $8 shipping, Those Ibanez files can be found here www.adorama.com.  Stewmac gets close at $73.00 + shipping. Another company, Grizzly @ www.grizzly.com.  gets close also, for $80.00 + $15 shipping.  Buy, “gets close”, I mean, the set of files has some sizes you need for a .010 set of strings. You will need to buy 1 or 2 extra size files to get the sizes you need, depends on the maker of the string set you chose. I know some of you are saying, “Man you are being to picky” , no I just want it done right or I want to do it right. I do not want to make do with a .016 file for a .017 string, yea I'm picky.  For $73.00 + shipping I want the sizes I need and not have to buy an extra size file adding another $15.00 to the total cost to make a good set, darn it.

[Cree]

        Fret leveling and polishing.  This is a given, on a new neck. All of the builders I mention here will send a note with your new neck or tell you on their web site, “that a good fret level, crown and polish will be needed”. The heck you say. I just spent $big O'l bucks for one of your over priced necks and now, I got to, DO THAT ON TOP!!!  Yep it's true. Blown budget right there. Poof. Then you got to find a good luthier that has a good reputation and wait, because he is 6-8 weeks back logged. A good luthier will set you back $120.00 to $300.00 to set up your new neck. File the nut for the strings you want, level, crown and polish the frets, adjust the action. Is that worth it? Heck yea it is worth it. Because it will cost me that much to buy the tools I need to do it, and those tools will only get used once or twice in this life. Do I sound a bit upset, I'm sorry. I wish I had known some of this before hand, I would have gone a different direction.
   Tools and tools; Make your own tools. This is my current option. Watching Utube videos and reading articles on alternative tools. I'm in the, “make my own”, use once tools on the cheep right now.  Had I have known all this on the outset I would buy me 2 of the $30.00 necks from Amazon. Buy the tools I need,  good ones, and practice on those cheep necks from over seas. Now there are good tools to be had and they are not over priced. You need good tools to do good work.  Only tools I think are over priced are the nut files and the fret crowning files. I'll have to wait for and hope I get a good tax refund for those tools, after Ol Blue gets a new set of tires. . Like I said budget is blown, and I need new work boots now. Which is more important? WORK BOOTS.   
   Some tools worth looking into are, the Thomas & Ginex Fret Refinishing kit, if you have used that refinishing kit, tell me how it worked.  www.fretrefinishing.com. There is a kit called Buzz-off but that is a easy self build kit.
 

[Cree]

        Never shopped for a new neck, here is my check list for you. Get your hands on a good dial caliper one that reads both inches and millimeters, (you need to know both now days to get the sizes you want when shopping for parts) Go to a local guitar store. Feel the necks, take note of the ones you like and make measurements. I had  all these measurements and still got skunked. Nut width, 1st fret depth 12th fret depth. Note the fret size you like. Look them up on the manufactures web site, they give fret size on the model specs page. Try and get a drawing of the back profile so you can measure it. Do you like a rounded off edge or what is called a rolled edge on the fret board or flat. Do not and I mean do not!! give in to the, “This is our most popular profile and radius, this is our number one seller profile”. Find the profile you like, find the radius you like and by George stick to it. Stay away from stainless frets if you plan on doing your own fret work, level, crown and polish, stainless frets are tough. Unless like me you want something that does not exist. See, I want a brand new, licensed Fender Strat neck with a D back profile about .086 at the 1st fret, .096 at the 12th  1 11/16 nut width, 9.5 to 12 compound radius, heavy rolled over fretboard, 10mm tuner holes, unbleached pre-cut and polished bone nut, Flamed Maple neck wood,  Brazilian Ebony veneer fretboard , 21, 6150 EVO gold frets, that have been leveled crowned and polished, Maple wood side and face dots, Ebony skunk stripe, head adjust single action truss rod, tinted satin nitro finished neck for $29.99  w/free shipping and a life time warranty.  Come on, you got to laugh at that. That would be a great neck and a good deal at $507.00.

   Wood type and thick verses thin necks. Here is where I'm am going to take a lot of heat. I know it, I know it. Profiles and wood, is there a difference in the sound. No, there is no difference in the sound, for us bedroom heroes there is not. Thick necks have one good thing going for them. You can sand the back profile down to your personal preference over time till you get it right where you want it. For most of us bedroom guitar heroes, we will never tell the difference between a Mahogany, Rosewood, Ebony, Pau Ferro or a Maple board sound anyway. Why? We pedal up the amp for a tone we want, very few let the guitar make the amp sound good, it's the final out the speaker sound we are shooting for. After 3 or 4 pedals your neck wood is lost in the fuzz anyway. So for that neck you want, just pick the color wood and the feel you like.
   Neck wood verses wear. I think we all like the look of a well worn Maple neck. It just says, “I'm a cool guitar”. Maple necks do get a wear pattern as the finish wears down, and I think it looks cool. Rosewood gets a wear divot and it is noticeable only if looked at from an angle. So if you are concerned about fretboard wear go with Maple or Ebony.  I have not seen any Pau Ferro fretboards old enough to say, one way or the other.

[Cree]

        Yes, I have been on a neck quest. Eating, sleeping guitar necks for 2 months now. My wife is tired of me and my neck quest. So, yes, I have seen, handled, tried to make deals, “Sell me that neck, I'll cut your grass for a month, I'll throw in 2 free kittens, and a pack of hot dogs. All for decent neck.
   Refrets.  Maple necks are easier to refret than Rosewood  and Ebony, as those woods will splinter when the old frets are pulled out, hard to fix those wee bits of splintered fretboards. Three ways around a refret, never play the guitar, use EVO gold frets or stainless. My suggestion the EVO gold. Those frets last longer than the standard Silver/nickel not as hard as the stainless.
`   The Finish. Neck finish which is best? Thin coat of spray Nitro in your choice of gloss or satin. Or Poly in your choice of gloss or satin. Or Tru oil. I own a Epiphone with a satin Nitro finish neck, it has worn down to a hi gloss on the back, it looks and plays as slick as it looks, awesome. I like a gloss finish on the head stock, and satin on the back. A poly finish is tough and the back can be wet sanded to make it smooth and slick. Oil finishes are not as tough, but easy to touch up if your baby gets some road rash scratches.
   Truss rods, double or single action; What I have learned about truss rods, if you play a thinner neck with heavy strings go for a dual action truss rod. For that matter any neck with heavy strings should have a heavy truss rod. 7 &  8 string players also need that heavy truss rod. On a standard light to medium string setup, a single action truss rod has worked for 97 years. Head stock or heel adjust. That's a personal preference. Do you want to be able to adjust the neck on the fly? Get head stock adjust.   
Did I leave out anything? Oh, yea neck pockets.. lets cover that another day,

        As a side note, If you are in the market for a neck and if the one you happen to want has a Rosewood fretboard,  “NOW”  is the time to find it. Rosewood is soon going to be a exotic wood. The better looking Rosewood, already cost more. You may get a good looking Rosewood fretboard from over seas but the Maple may not be the best. I am not a Stewmac fan but Right now they have their necks on sale and possibly the best deal on the net. So if you might need a new neck in the future go ahead and get one. If you never use it I'll trade you an original unopened special edition Superman dies comic for it, and heck I'll throw in a coffee mug with a Batman logo on it.   

[sluckey]

Too much caffeine?

[Cree]

Too much caffeine? by sluckey 

Yes, yes, I am a Coffee junky. Doctor told me, "You drink too too much coffee, you need to quit or drink less, that much caffeine can kill you, you know" . I told him, "you just signed my death warrant, I'll die without it". 

[P Batty]

I've made several guitars with Guitar Fetish necks, they are all a little different, they all can be made to work. You have to learn to level, crown and polish frets and set the relief. You can buy 8-10 of them for the price of one name brand. Different neck profiles aren't bad, they are just different. You'll learn a lot from setting up different necks. The journey, if you're up to it, is worth it. There aren't any real shortcuts.

[Platefire]

Forgive me, so i started and bailed out--too long! Maybe finish latter. Strat won out over the tele for me. So I have 5 strats that I consider project guitars and have learned to do strat set up very well for my own purposes. However when it comes to fret work---I'm short handed! I can set relief well, change tuning keys but after that pretty well helpless regarding necks. Platefire

[mresistor]

Too much caffeine?

LMAO    #toomuchcaffein   #divorcedsoon   #onewaycomm   #wtf


FWIW - I love my Music Man necks and my Fender Strat necks..    the Music Man Silo Special fits my hand perfectly..

[jjasilli]

I can't get no satisfaction!

[Cree]

FWIW - I love my Music Man necks and my Fender Strat necks..    the Music Man Silo Special fits my hand perfectly..

mresistor, post a pic of that Music Man or a link if it is here someplace. 

[Cree]

I come here today to, “eat crow”, as they say, and have to say, I retract this statement, about torch tip cleaners..

( NOTE: Let me tell you the torch tip cleaners that some say are nut files, ARE NOT. They are for cleaning, cutting torch tips and they are worthless for cutting a guitar nut to specs.) 

Turns out this is the way I'm going at this time. After a bit more study and talking with some guitar repair gurus. They have good points to their use.  Only real problem with their use is with the smaller sizes, such as the HI E and B strings. The smallest rod size in most torch tip cleaner sets that I have cked are .0175", some have a .020 as the smallest. So buy one nut file in a .010 which will run approx $15.00 plus shipping. Or use an old set of feeler gauges like I have here. Then get a good set of torch tip cleaners, which will cost you $7.00 or so. I then found me a jewelers saw, ( cost $9.00) which after a modification to the locking jaw screws. (Not modded yet in the photo). Will hold the rods that I cut out/off from the tip cleaner case quite well. Worked great on my test neck. For the E and D strings I just made files out of old feeler gauges to get what I felt was a good right size fit on those strings. Another thing is the grove in the nut should be a bit larger than the string being used, about .002 - .003. I was told at first, they needed to have an exact fit, ie. For a .010 string the grove need to be a .011 at max = WRONG. One Luthier told me .004 was ok for grove oversize on the wound strings with a tremolo, which puts the use of the tip cleaners right in there as a good fit.
   
   Other things I tried are old feeler gauges. I rubbed them on a file back and forth until I created teeth. (See photos). They worked very good and you can find a good right size with those.  (.014 in photo).  I also have a pin vise, which will hold the smaller tip cleaners to clean up and round out the bottom of a cut.
   So my current nut file system cost me $36.00, taking it easy on the tip rods will last me for years. The pin vise and feeler gauges are old and have been with me for years. I Will probably forget where I store everything before I need them again, once I get the frets cleaned up and done. A new nut shaped and mounted in the neck. I also purchased the Thomas & Ginex Fret finish system $36.00 inc shipping, and if time permits today will use it on my test neck also, (will post after pics once done). Which is a well worn Squire strat neck. See photo at the 10th 11th 12th frets. It will need a new nut as I practiced cutting the groves and cut new groves in between the old to ck out how my system works, and also broke it trying to remove it.
   

[Cree]

Sorry am not sure how to post photos yet. Here are the files I made from feeler gauges. The pin vise and the testing neck I am working on. 

[Cree]

Here are the before and after pictures after using the Thomas & Ginex Fret finish system. The black marker marks on the 2 frets are places I picked up a bit of buzz.