1st snow of 2018

[EL34]

14.5 inches so far this morning and still coming down

Power blinked at 2:30 am, but it's been on since then
It's only a matter of time until a tree takes out the power here

I uploaded a couple youtube videos of the snow here
 

[shooter]

You win!
It's been exceptionally cold in MI but fortunately dry.  I'm heading south soon, was gonna go via NC & WV, now I'm aiming for Sluckey's neighborhood, check out Talladega NF before working my way around the snow in search of warmer weather!

Hopefully the Sun comes back and you don't have to stud up the bike tires 

[Ritchie200]

Just got back from the FL mouse and 85 degree sunny days. Now I'm in purgatory with 10's-30's and flurries, a definite shock to the system.  I was wondering how bad the storm of the century would get.  The weather channel folks look like they are on a diet of red bull and molasses gushing over this storm.  Hope you can stay warm without burning the furniture - although any tele looking things are expendable.....  Seriously, I hope all is well and you weather the storm.

Jim

[EL34]

  Hope you can stay warm without burning the furniture - although any tele looking things are expendable.....  Seriously, I hope all is well and you weather the storm.
Jim

I definitely would burn any Tele's first before burning anything valuable

[sluckey]

That's not real wood, is it?

[EL34]

No power loss here.
It blinked off and on at 2:30 am, but has been on since then

Propane backup heat sources work great
My heat pumps are not any good right now, so I turned them off and just run the blower motors to circulate the propane heat

But still, I would burn any Tele's, just for fun

[sluckey]

I just saw a "This Old House" show where they are working on a "Net Zero" house. One segment mentioned 0°F heat pumps are available now. Big improvement over my current heat pump! But then my temp rarely dips below 30°.

[EL34]

I just saw a "This Old House" show where they are working on a "Net Zero" house. One segment mentioned 0°F heat pumps are available now. Big improvement over my current heat pump! But then my temp rarely dips below 30°.

Hmm, that may be what I replace my house heat pump with when ever it goes
It's a goodman and pretty good quality

But I built the house in 2000-2001, so it's 17 years old now

[PRR]

On Maine coast we've had two 1+" snows, mostly melted.

The outfit pushing heat-pumps here went broke last year. In this cold, it works on paper, not in a real winter. They strain, often fail. If the fall-back is electric, the cold-spell costs are far higher than fire.

We have been burning propane. Was 8 degrees a couple nights back. The generic 95% eff. burner runs a fair amount and keeps the inside temp very stable. When the power wires fall, we have a propane fireplace. Also a propane generator or two.

[EL34]

On Maine coast we've had two 1+" snows, mostly melted.

The outfit pushing heat-pumps here went broke last year. In this cold, it works on paper, not in a real winter. They strain, often fail. If the fall-back is electric, the cold-spell costs are far higher than fire.

We have been burning propane. Was 8 degrees a couple nights back. The generic 95% eff. burner runs a fair amount and keeps the inside temp very stable. When the power wires fall, we have a propane fireplace. Also a propane generator or two.

What I also like about propane is that it adds moisture to the air
The heat pumps dries the air out and messes with my sinuses
I used to get nose bleeds in the winter before I added the propane backup

[shooter]

We have been burning propane

We do the same, when I 1st bought the place in '90 it came with a 1940's Dowagiac fuel oil and a wood burning furnace, both in a 12X20 basment.  The woodburner was GREAT, you could put6-8 2ft logs in there, keep the house warm enough in January not to care about the heat leaky house.  The firebox finally gave out, and the 45% efficient fuel oil behemoth had to go.  Fully re-built the old and built 1400sq ft new, fully insulated, argon window, but the 97% eff propane just never seems to "take the chill out"

[EL34]

I keep the house in mid to low 60's
I always have a warm fleece top on over a T shirt

The chill is not an issue for me with the proper clothes on :)

[shooter]

That's where we're dialed, I start out every Morn with underarmour (look-a-like  )
a wool hat, a heavy shirt.......

[PRR]

> What I also like about propane is that it adds moisture to the air

Oh, open flame. Mine doesn't. A 95% efficient furnace is totally sealed, the fire-stuff doesn't come in the house. My 80% fireplace is similar; so is my pellet-stove. When it goes to zero outside, the amount of fuel we burn is far too much for open flame, the CO2 would kill you.

Every register in the house has a water dish.

[EL34]

Yes, my propane heater is one of those open flame ventless types that hangs on the wall
It's not meant to be the primary heat source, but it does a good job on about 800 sq feet or so


I only got it 3 years ago as a helper for the heat pump, but I liked the heat it produced so much, I started using it more and more each winter

[Ritchie200]

Main byproduct of burning natural or propane is H2O.  People with their vent free fireplaces burning all day at Christmas cant understand why their windows are pouring rivers of condensate when it's 30 degrees outside.  Doug just make sure you have a couple of CO detectors in the house.

Jim

[EL34]

I have one, it has never gone off in the house

[PRR]

> Main byproduct of burning natural or propane is H2O.

True; but enough CO2 to matter.

Complete combustion with ample air (a properly set furnace) leads to:
three CO₂ and four H₂0  === slightly more water, though by weight the CO₂ dominates.

If there is any soot in the smoke it is starved for Oxygen. This tends to products like:
four CO₂ and two CO and four H₂O === enough monoxide to be trouble

Interestingly (I did not know this) a very rich burn makes no CO_x, only soot and water (on paper).

Natural Gas tends to higher C/H ratio and may make more carbon products. But us hill-folks don't know about that. Cain't lay gas pipe in rock (or not worth it to reach mere people). If it has to be trucked in, the denser Propane has usually been the way to go. (But they keep doing more with compressed NatGas.)

The open-flame burners made in the last 20+ years (and bought major retail, not off the back of a boat from China) tend to meet fairly good requirements for flame quality, and above some size, for safety cut-offs. Obviously a CO beeper is still wise.

[shooter]

or not worth it to reach mere people

 
the tanker truck showed up today, they cut it close, in the red, 12%, n we pay extra for the "keep-fill" program 

[Ed_Chambley]

Doug,
It looks like you got a good bit.  Dogs and snow are fun.  I have one little Toy Manchester Terrier and he weighs almost 10 lbs and has very little hair and freezes when temp gets below 70.  We got about 4" in our yard in Franklin Sunday morning.  He finally went out in the snow following the older one.  When he came back in he ran through the house barking and very proud of himself.


I headed towards Asheville early Saturday morning and when I got to Sylva, the NC State Troopers were out warning and I explained I was driving a 4 wheel drive.  Most of the NC troopers are nice and this was no exception.


He said "Son (I was at least 10 years older) I got me one of dose 4 wheel jeeps and I don't recon I'd even try to head into Asheville unless I had a real good reason."  I said I was going to pick up my wife's girlfriend and bring her back to our house near Burningtown, the asked if he considered the risk worth it.  I do not live in Burningtown, but it just sounds cooler in this situation.


He did not know what the to say.  He started to say something, then just go ahead!  I didn't go and damn glad I didn't.

[EL34]

We were at ground Zero here
It ended up being 16 inches of wet heavy snow

[Ed_Chambley]

I heard.  I tried driving 276 out of Waynesville towards Brevard, but when I go to the river I could see a lot of stuck vehicles heading towards Mt Pisgah.  I wanted to be able to get up on the mountain, but too dangerous to drive and I just cannot stand to walk 4 miles in the snow so I will never be good at telling young folks how hard it was when I was coming up.  You know, I had to walk to school 5 miles in the snow uphill both ways!


Thanks for the videos, they remind me I had fun.

[shooter]

I will never be good at telling young folks

One of my former "kids", called, she was on leave 4 days, and ask If I'd be interested in hiking in the Pisgah, WV side.  I asked if she new it was Feb and they have snow!  I did agree, rented a 4X4, at about 6pm I'm half way between Elkins and Seneca, in the worst blizzard they had in all the 'ol folks memory, and their memories go way back!  took me 6hrs to go 30 miles, just to sleep in a tent and hike in 3ft snow! 
I did earn bragging rights 
 

[PRR]

BTW...

> Main byproduct of burning natural or propane is H2O.

No fake, Jake. My PVC vent pipe blows huge clouds of steam. I know it is steam because some condenses on the squirrel-screen and drips. Actually it must be super-humid air: the exhaust temperature is below 120 F.

But even more water condenses back into the furnace. It drips out the side. Since I have no cellar drain I have a condensate pump to lift it out. In some jurisdictions you are not allowed to put furnace drip in the public sewer, it may be bad. No jurisdiction here, and my septic is other corner of the house. I just squirt it out on the weeds. It seems to do no harm in mild weather. Over the cold season I will build up quite a lump of ice. Mildly tinted-- there must be stray impurities in my Propane.

[Ed_Chambley]

I will never be good at telling young folks

One of my former "kids", called, she was on leave 4 days, and ask If I'd be interested in hiking in the Pisgah, WV side.  I asked if she new it was Feb and they have snow!  I did agree, rented a 4X4, at about 6pm I'm half way between Elkins and Seneca, in the worst blizzard they had in all the 'ol folks memory, and their memories go way back!  took me 6hrs to go 30 miles, just to sleep in a tent and hike in 3ft snow! 
I did earn bragging rights 

Reminds me of a song.

[shooter]

 
Thanks for the laugh

[Ritchie200]

BTW...

> Main byproduct of burning natural or propane is H2O.

No fake, Jake. My PVC vent pipe blows huge clouds of steam. I know it is steam because some condenses on the squirrel-screen and drips. Actually it must be super-humid air: the exhaust temperature is below 120 F.

But even more water condenses back into the furnace. It drips out the side. Since I have no cellar drain I have a condensate pump to lift it out. In some jurisdictions you are not allowed to put furnace drip in the public sewer, it may be bad. No jurisdiction here, and my septic is other corner of the house. I just squirt it out on the weeds. It seems to do no harm in mild weather. Over the cold season I will build up quite a lump of ice. Mildly tinted-- there must be stray impurities in my Propane.

Yeah, like I said, those vent free fireplaces put buckets of water into the air.  We don't have any regs against condensate in the drains, but the little bit of sulfur in that flue gas will do a number on any metal object in it's path.  I've seen improperly installed condensing furnace PVC vents blowing on outside AC units and gas meters, turning them into rust buckets.  I'm sure flue gas condensate cant be good for any cast iron pipe under the basement floor or the local sewer pumping equipment.  Even AC condensate will many times measure below 50 on a TDS meter - which will etch the crap out of your concrete floor if you let it.  Basically deionized water leaching the minerals out of the concrete.  Plus you don't want to put anything into your septic tank that will upset your aerobic and anaerobic flora and fawna!  Let the grass handle it!

Jim

[PRR]

I have to walk-back my "tinted ice".

Here's a picture of the several ice-blots under my furnace plumbing. The pumped condensate lands in the corner of the window and I think heat-loss through the cellar wall melts it. The *clear* blot in front of the window is "bad": I have not glued the PVC pipe and exhaust drips here. Going out, the next clear blot is drip from the far end of the pipe. Then the streak and the "yellow candle" are drips from the squirrel-mesh and its end-cap.

The mesh and cap is really a bird-feeder slipped on the PVC. They are steel. The cap is rusting very bad. The "tint" is more likely *rust*, not dirty gas.

Propane is generally almost what it says. It is a high distillation of natural gas and oil and refinery subproducts. There are several analog gases which may be blended in small portions if that suits the economics. And of course when it goes into the Fuel Chain they add "stink".