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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!  (Read 17177 times)

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Offline cboysen

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Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« on: December 09, 2018, 11:51:26 am »
A few months ago I got in touch with a young (19) and talented musician, a faint acquaintance of mine. One thing lead to another, and I offered to build him a D-style clean amp, in the spirit of Mayer, Ford, SRV etc. 

So after a lot of searching, planning, Visio drawing, I purchased a bunch of components from the nice guys at Tube-Town Germany. They could even CNC-cut a cool Faceplate for me. I received the lot a couple of weeks ago, and this is what became of it. It took a few weeks, mostly due to the cabinet building/tolexing and drying times.

Single(LO)/Parallel(HI) input amp, built on the 18w platform - Fixed/cathode, Tube/Solid State and Slow/Fast Train Wreck switches. Vol-TMB-Master-Pres-Cut-On/off Layout.
It uses 3 12ax7s, 2 6V6 and an EZ81 rectifier. V1 is input triodes followed by a simplified Dumble TS set in Rock/non-Deep and a Volume(47p Hardwired). On to V2 -  2 non-bypassed(1.5K/100K) gain stages with a split-plate switch and a 220k/100k to ground voltage divider inbetween to keep V2b from clipping too early. Next a master volume, followed by a pretty straight forward Dumble power amp using 6V6s. Oh.. and it's dead quiet, until 8-10 on the master, where it starts to hiss just slightly.

Gut-shot included, but the Visio-PDF is updated to the latest settings before the final assembly.

The friend/customer is very happy with the sound. So of course that makes me happy. Hope you like it. Any questions/critiques are very welcome :)

/Christian
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 06:16:02 am by cboysen »

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 11:52:25 am »
More pictures

Offline sluckey

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2018, 12:02:08 pm »
Very nice!
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2018, 02:45:10 pm »
That's a VERY nice build!  And I appreciate your sharing your work with photos and a layout.  Thank you!

Any chance you have a schematic also that you'd be willing to share? 

With respect, Tubenit

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 03:57:35 pm »
That's a VERY nice build!  And I appreciate your sharing your work with photos and a layout.  Thank you!

Any chance you have a schematic also that you'd be willing to share? 

With respect, Tubenit

Unfortunately I never made a schematic - Never sat down to learn how to either.. So I suppose this is a good a time as any.. I'll try to post a schematic in the up coming days.

Kind regards :)

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 07:31:41 am »
Quote
Unfortunately I never made a schematic - Never sat down to learn how to either.. So I suppose this is a good a time as any.. I'll try to post a schematic in the up coming days.

It should be noted that cboysen intended this to be a "clean"  D-style inspired amp.

OK, so I made one & took a few liberties to change a few things:

1)  I didn't understand the dual inputs, so I tried to do a single/dual triode with a  spdt

2)  I could not find a resistor value for the NFB resistor, so I choose 4.7k.  One could try 6.8k also?  It looked like on the layout there might be a
     NFB switch?

3)  Instead of an EZ81 rectifier (6.3v heater),  I am showing an 8 pin rectifier socket.  Using a 300-0-300 PT with 140ma, you could do the following:

     5Y3GT   300 x 1.1 = 330v  and use 6K6 for 7-8 watts or 6V6
     5V4       300 x 1.2 = 360v  and use 6V6
     GZ34     300 x 1.3 = 390v  and use 6V6 or 5881/6L6
     solid state plug in rectifier  300 x 1.4 = 420v  for either JJ 6V6's or 5881's or 6L6's

     Perhaps this approach would give more versatility and options?  And  IF  one did cathode biased, then you could simply plug in the
     rectifiers and tubes with NO re-biasing.  :thumbsup:   Both my D-inspired amps are cathode biased with 300-0-300 140ma PT.

4)  Wasn't sure how to draw the cathode/fixed biased switching, but there is info on the forum on doing this.   I also wasn't sure about the 47uf/450v
      filter caps in series?   Perhaps this was needed for cathode/fixed biased switching?


Cboysen,   IF you'd like an editable version to change to what you have on the layout ………….. I've attached an ExpressSCH version that you can easily edit.  ExpressSCH is a free download that works on Windows.


With respect, Tubenit

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 08:01:00 am by tubenit »

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 08:02:25 am »
Some thoughts ……….   IF I were building it,  I'd add a mid-boost and a PAB similar to the D-Lite builds. 

And I'd add 2.2uf cathode caps on the 2nd and 3rd gain stages that could be switchable with a single DPDT.   This would still allow the original design clean tone, but would with 3 small mini-toggles would also add some more overdrive.   Just a thought & not necessarily "better"

IF one liked reverb, they could consider the "one tube reverb" idea.    http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=7957.0

With respect, Tubenit

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 08:12:03 am by tubenit »

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2018, 09:09:49 am »
That's quite some work you've put into this. Thank you!
I've already downloaded the expressSCH, but your file makes it a lot easier.

Ok
1) I love switches, but I chose the dual input switching system for a cleaner faceplate look. The dual inputs, are simply utilized by the switchcraft marshall-type jacks. The 2 pins make connection when nothing is inserted, and can thusly be used as a passage for signal. I've included a picture "jack wiring" to show you the signal ways. Red is single triode (pale red being the grounding passage when using parallel triode), and blue being Parallel triode signal way.

2) The NFB resistor 22K is stationed at the output 8 ohm jack for wiring convenience, and the 5K presence knob being the other end of the voltage divider (remember to disable the jack switch if doing it this way, otherwise the 22k resistor is bypassed when nothing is inserted into the 8-ohm jack). This is taken directly from Sluckeys November schematics, where he mentioned that 22K gave a better response than 100k. I do not recommend ditching the presence-knob in favor of a switch, the presence knob seems very much needed in this design. Although a switch to completely deactivate the NFB loop could be of use.

3) I chose the EZ81 rectifier simply because Tube-Town had already predrilled a lot of the holes, and i felt no need to use a different rectifier. Although the TT transformer has a 5V heater tap to do so. Also there is a relatively small voltage drop across the EZ81, which was a plus in my book, according to my friends wishes of a very fast response with a tube feel. Whether you will even notice "sag" at any level is still something I question. Nevertheless it's fairly cheap to incorporate and I chose to do so for "cool factor".  The solid state / rectifier switch is taken from another thread on the forum, the only difference is that I chose to put an "always in circuit"-47+47uF filtering on the solid state line, to get the heavy filtering seen on D-style amps, while still keeping it fairly low-filtered on the EZ81 line. I'll try to draw it in the coming schematics.

4) The cathode/fixed bias circuit is a direct rip-off from sluckeys november build, and it works like a charm. Only thing I did was to use the Mark Huss plexi6v6 bias circuit, although I changed the 220k resistor to 150k and the bias pot to 25k-L to accomodate for the lower voltage secondaries transformer. I'm a big fan of cathode biasing myself, why chose to incooporate the switch since the original designs use fixed biasing.  I can see you made the cathode bias resistor 270R, I think this is too small for 6V6s. The voltage across the cathode resistor is nearly 27V, and thus 400R puts it at 95% of max plate dissipation. 

Also I do not recommend any bypass capacitors after V1. I originally had a 5uF bypass cap on V2a, but this stiffens up the feel of the already quite stiff amp, and overdrives V2b nearly at any volumes. Using the split plate resistor in "slow" setting and no bypass cap on v2a, and a 100k resistor to ground just before v2b, ensures that v2a and b clips around the same time, giving a much warmer and rounder break up. If you were to overdrive the preamp section, I strongly recommend the use of plate-to-cathode capacitors of 280-390p as seen on the D-style overdrive section. This keeps the overdrive from becoming overly harsh, although it will take a way some shine when playing  clean. Something i did not like. Bear in mind that you can surely overdrive this amp. My LP with medium-high output overdrives the preamp  around noon when using HI input, and "fast mode". The preamp is overdriven when fully cranked with a strat. I prefer a slight overdrive on the preamp and having the power amp overdrive the rest, when not designing the amp for strictly rock-and-roll purposes. But to each their own :)

Hope this cleared up some.

Kind regards
Christian
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 09:29:22 am by cboysen »

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 09:30:16 am »
Sounds like you have thought thru it quite well.  And if it overdrives easily, it makes sense to not use the cathode caps or PAB or mid-boost.

Here is the reference that Christian referred to on Sluckey's November. Grateful for Steve's generousity and knowledge!

http://www.sluckeyamps.com/november/november.htm

THANKS again for sharing a great build!  I love innovative designs and you've definitely put some good work and thought into this.   Bravo!   :thumbsup:

With respect, Tubenit

With my two amps where I alternate using 6V6's and 5881's or 6L6's,  I have been using 270R in one  and 360R cathode resistor in the other.
The Fender 5E3 Deluxe uses a 250R    https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_deluxe_5e3.pdf
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 09:35:56 am by tubenit »

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2018, 10:41:30 am »
Thanks for the nice words, it really means a lot.

And yes, Steve's designs and knowledge shared on this forum and his own website, have helped me more than anything else the past few years, when learning to build amplifiers.

I'm sure improvement/alterations can be made to this amp - The main purpose of this build was to keep the cost relatively low, and make a great clean pedal platform, why I didn't feel the need for tremolo or reverb, which can be engaged by pedals. One thing that really impressed me with this amp, was that the clean tone remained clear, defined yet "tubey" across all volume levels for both preamp and master volume settings. 

I intend to make some sound clips later, but overall I feel the amp comes quite close to the clean sounds Mick Taylor gets in this video
&t=322s

Kind regards
Christian

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2018, 04:19:03 pm »
Quote
overall I feel the amp comes quite close to the clean sounds Mick Taylor gets in this video

Well, ..… that's not fair !!   :icon_biggrin:

You can't compare your amp to a real Dumble with Mick Taylor playing it (when he can make any amp sound good).   :icon_biggrin: :l2: :l2:

And then not post a sound clip of your amp.   :think1: :icon_biggrin: :l2:

Just kidding with you!   Looking forward to the sound clips.

With respect, Tubenit


Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 04:10:28 am »
Oh, I didn't mean to brag, I just think the sound is quite similar. The tightness in the bottom, and the distinct sparkling highs without being fatiguing on the ears. Unfortunately I don't own a microphone, but the owner agreed to do a demo when he got the time. In the mean time, I will continue to learn how to draw schematics ;)

/Christian

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 06:24:20 am »
Hey man,  I was just kidding around with you.  It is a GREAT looking amp inside and out!  I trust you that it sounds good also. :thumbsup:

Thanks for sharing your success!   IF you can get some soundclips, that would be cool.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 10:05:46 am »
So I made a schematic. This should be about right.

kind regards
Christian

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 05:24:35 am »
I forgot to add tube labels.

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 05:28:01 am »
Well done !!!   You did a fantastic drawing of the schematic. Very impressed with that.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

THANKS again for sharing your success and the schematic.    with respect, Tubenit

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 05:56:10 am »
Well done !!!   You did a fantastic drawing of the schematic. Very impressed with that.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

THANKS again for sharing your success and the schematic.    with respect, Tubenit

No problem Tubenit, just glad you like it.

And thanks for the much too kind words :)

I'll probably make another in the next year orso. We'll see.

/Christian

Offline pullshocks

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2018, 03:55:34 pm »

Very nice looking build and an intriguing take on the D-style amps.


I am not familiar with the fast/slow switch.  Could you describe how it affects the sound?  Also, whats up with the wire wrapped around the leads to that switch.  I'm guessing it is for shielding, why do it that way instead of shielded cable?


Thanks for posting, and looking forward to the sound clips.


Pullshocks / Mark

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2018, 04:17:36 pm »

Very nice looking build and an intriguing take on the D-style amps.


I am not familiar with the fast/slow switch.  Could you describe how it affects the sound?  Also, whats up with the wire wrapped around the leads to that switch.  I'm guessing it is for shielding, why do it that way instead of shielded cable?


Thanks for posting, and looking forward to the sound clips.


Pullshocks / Mark

Hi Mark, thanks for the kind words, appreciate it!

Alright, so the fast/slow switch naming is actually taken from the Komet Amps, which again, is from the trainwreck express models me thinks... I didn't wanna change the name, as a hail to the creator.. makes sense? .. But in all honesty, it's a silly and very indiscriptive name. Low gain/high gain would probably be better.

So.. All it does, is splitting the  plate resistor into a 82k and 22kOhm, and making the output switchable. You'd still have the 100k plate load resistance to the tube at all times, but the voltage is divided(?) at the 82k/22K junction, and thus reduces the output greatly. As a side effect it may feel like the amp is somewhat slower/darker/softer sounding, but I think that's mostly due to the reduced output gain. Overall it's a great/different way to lower the preamp-gain without affecting the overall sound of the amp too much, and I actually think this setting makes the whole amp come a lot closer to the old Dumble ODS cleans. Notice the ODS model only uses one triode before it splits off to the PI or the overdrive section, where as my amp design has a parallel input 12ax7, and then a second 12ax7 before the PI, effectively one triode gain stage more than the original design. Why it makes sense the reduced output from the slow-mode feels more at home with the original design. Hope I'm not too confusing.. I tend to be ;)

About the wrapping of wire -Yes, it acts a shield, the wire is connected to ground from the underside, and attaches to the bus bar, at the board.  I did that mostly because I'm lazy, and my shielded wire is quite expensive, I didn't have any 3-wire shielded cable, and because it's the way komet amps do it.

Anyway.  I have a date with my friend and his small home-studio. So hopefully you'll have sound within the next week :)

Cheers
Christian
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 04:22:14 pm by cboysen »

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2018, 09:05:17 am »
Here is a small sound clip from yesterdays recording.
American Fender strat
Guitar straight to amp - Solid State Rectifier, Fixed bias, Slow mode. Single (LO) input.
Harley Benton 1x12 cab with Yellowback G12/50.
Sm57 3-4 inches from center off axis (why it may sound a little dark).

Enjoy.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HPYCehiTNTGJuhqOtuEKq2I2nxFFpiD7/view?usp=sharing

Offline tubenit

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2018, 10:44:12 am »
OK, that sounds fantastic!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :icon_biggrin:            I'm genuinely impressed.

You've earned some bragging rights on that one.     Nice playing too.

With respect, Tubenit

Offline cboysen

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2018, 10:46:31 am »
OK, that sounds fantastic!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :icon_biggrin:            I'm genuinely impressed.

You've earned some bragging rights on that one.     Nice playing too.

With respect, Tubenit

Thanks!

I'm not the one playing though - That's the 19 year old guy, who bought the amp you are hearing. And yeah, he's alright ;)

Offline frankk

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Re: Dumble 20 Watt 6V6 Build - with pwetty pictures!
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2022, 02:35:04 am »
What a really fabulous thread - incredible build, playing, and input (thanks for schematic Tubenit)

Could you please say which output transformer you used Christian? @cboseyn

Thanks

 


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