My other hobbys... Building a boat, fishing, and woodworking

[1blueheron]

If you guys haven't picked up on it already, I am a bit ADD and have way too many brands in the fire at any given time. It seems like I add a new hobby each week.  The tube amp/guitar thing is the latest because it is something that my son enjoys with me and gives us some quality time.

My first hobby/passion (after God and family of course) is fishing.  Fishing of any type.  From flyfishing for trout and steelhead to netfishing in saltwater for shrimp.  I love it all.  Nothing like being on, in or around the water.  This has spawned the hobbies of fly tying, lure making, rod building, and most recently boat building.

My second passion is wood working.  I have a bandsaw mill and I saw lumber.  Using the bandmill I built a house from concrete and heavy timbers which I now live in.  Like all my other projects, it isn't completely finished but then again, homes are always needing to have something fixed or added on right? I have also built tables, beds, porch swings, a guitar, etc. using my own lumber.

Electronics/music is my third love.  At one time I was a huge Hi-Fi enthusiast.  Marriage somewhat killed that hobby but my teenage son is getting me back into it.


So, here is a few pictures of the boat project.  It is a plywood/epoxy  boat built using the stitch and glue method and based on plans for the Great Alaskan.  It is 24'6' LOA and has a beam of 8'6".  It will be outboard powered and have a hardtop cabin with v-berth.  The boat will be offshore capable but small enough to launch and use on the lake where we live.

[shooter]

Whoever has the most unfinished projects wins!! 

I call myself the poster child for ADD!

nice build,
I'm living in my plywood camper fishing the FL swamps!!!

[Ritchie200]

Welcome to the ADD club!  Man do I have questions for you... 


First, I never understood how the stitch and glue method is stronger than a braced design?  I always thought it would be a collapsed envelope and toothpicks at the first wave smack.  And how the heck are you going to get that out of the garage and up on a trailer?!?!  A few years ago I almost built a Popular Science (or was it Mechanics...) boat that was braced plywood with fiberglass layup.  Got the plans and was ready to go.  Kids and life got in the way of that one.


Second, I was going to attempt to build a timber frame garage doing the mortis and tenon method this summer.  As an old tool and die maker, I will probably obsess over the least important things and it will take ten times longer than it should...  What style did you build yours in?  How big and how long did it take?  What wood did you use?  We have a bunch of sawmills around here but I always wondered if buying a bandmill might be cheaper in the long run.  Then I did some research.  I think I'll let the pros saw the logs.  BF price is not too bad.  What brand bandmill do you have?  The other issue is most of the mills around here just have oak or small pines.  I'd look like Arnold in his body building days if I had to work with oak for any length of time....


Jim

[1blueheron]

Jim,

I'll tackle the house ?'s  first.  I kept the build small.  24X32 footprint, 1-1/2 story.  The walls were built with ICF.   Then I did mortice and tenon timberframe roof truss and rafters on the ICF walls.  On top of the Timberframe roof support structure, I used jumbo SIPS.  8'X24' X 8" thick.  I would likely do a few things different if I had to do it over but you always learn as you go. 

The main structural timbers for the roof are White Oak.  Rafters are 7"X 11"  kingpost was 8"X12"  IIRC.   The purlins between are yellow pine.  I milled anything under 10' long on my mill.  the stuff over 10' I had a local mill do, simply because the logs were too heavy for me to handle by myself with my equipment.

I had a Hudson Oscar 16 at the time of the build, and I now have a Norwood Timbermate 2000 as well. Both manual mills.  I can saw up to 21" dia. and 32' long.

The joinery work was primarily done with hand tools (mallet and chisel).  I don't have a morticing machine.  I planed all the purlins on my Woodmaster 18" thickness planer.  The larger beams were planed using a 4-1/2 inch planer with multiple passes. 

The build was time consuming but the nice thing about timberframing is you can work on it one timber at a time and then stack it for future assembly and erection.  I made things way more difficult than they needed to be just because that is the kind of person I tend to be but I am happy with the almost finished product which to me is what matters.  For example, I don't have any exposed wiring.  Lights hanging from beams are all fed from wires ran through the beams.  End boring a beam 8' long is tedious.  Intercepting that in the middle is challenging.  After a couple months of working with heavy timbers, you learn how to use balance points and weight to your advantage.  You see the genius behind what some of the old timers did.

The boat is a whole other world.  It is way more challenging as everything relates to something else and nothing is square.  Working with curves is a challenge.  Turning sheets of flat plywood into curves is even more challenging.

S&G is actually quite simple until you get into compound curves.  The bottom shape of my boat is pure S&G with 2- LVL stringers as longitudinal stiffeners.  The structure is very rigid and super strong.  It is similar to building a box beam out of plywood.  Very stiff and very light.  These boats were designed to handle the rough waters of the PNW as commercial fishing and crabbing boats so I have no concerns over seaworthiness.

I have managed to make this much more complicated than necessary as well by trying to add flare to the bow and tumble-home to the stern, neither of which was in the original plans.  I also made the chines a little wider for additional lift.  My cabin design is original and experimental for this boat design. So I am building it rack-o-eye at this point without much in the way of paper plans.

[Ritchie200]

So what you are saying is that the Harbor Freight bandmill may not do the trick?     A chain mortiser for the oak is looking pretty good to me!  Were you able to plane to size or did you have to modify to your reference faces?  How did you attach to foundation?  There are some really cool ornate designs out there.


Jim

[1blueheron]

So what you are saying is that the Harbor Freight bandmill may not do the trick?     A chain mortiser for the oak is looking pretty good to me!  Were you able to plane to size or did you have to modify to your reference faces?  How did you attach to foundation?  There are some really cool ornate designs out there.


Jim

Jim,

My concrete walls are anchored to the foundation every 32" with 1/2 rebar dowels.  Timber trusses are anchored to the walls using steel pocket plates and threaded rod cast into the wall.  From there up its all wood and wood fasteners.  No steel.

You may find a Hazard Fraught bandmill will do the job just fine,  then again....   Bandmills are pretty wicked peices of equipment when up to rpm and under load.   They make a chainsaw look like childs play.

The old timers worked all timbers green and somewhat wet.  Oak cuts as easy as pine when it is green.  Once it gets dry, even a chain morticer would be challenging.  The trick is to allow for shrinkage in all your joinery.  The KISS principle is best.   Timberframing is like any other skill, just like building an amp.  Start with something small and basic on paper.  Draw each joint.   Build a set of timberframe saw ponies, or a shaving horse, or a workbench.  You will get experience cutting joints and find out if you have the skills and patience needed without breaking the bank.  If you do, the ponies etc. will be put to use as you build a structure.  Start with a tool or garden shed.  Then scale up.  Don't get caught up in the romance of hammerbeams and fairytale looking structures until you get the basics nailed down. 

Another good way to cost effective practice is to build a scale model that replicates each joint, timber, and frame. You can rip 2X4 material into scale timbers.  Cut the joints, then Assemble it using toothpicks for trunnels.  All the learned skills on the small scale will transfer to the full scale without getting a hernia in the process.

Most modern Timberframes are built bent style.  Buy a couple good books on the art of timberframing.  https://www.amazon.com/Timber-Framers-Workshop-Essentials-Traditional/dp/188926900X

Other good ones are written by Chappell, Sobon, and Benson. 

What part of the country do you hail from?

[Ritchie200]

Hammerframe and fairytale would look good on a garage!   Some of that hammerframe is amazing.  Ok all of it is amazing!  I do have a bunch of books and they ALL suggest building some, what I would consider, overbuilt and ridiculously braced saw horses.  I'm thinking that is way overboard authentic just to lay some timber on....   Now I get it!

ICF walls?  I take it there is a way to secure them to each other and your framing?  I've always wondered how easy those were to work with.  I have visions of the lower sections blowing out when you fill! Do the SIP panels come with an interior finish or did you cover?

I had no idea that oak was that easy to work with green!  I built a bunch of horse stalls in my barn out of semi seasoned oak.  My carbide tipped saw blade was about done by the time I finished. All nail holes had to be drilled.  All screw holes had to be drilled with VERY little thread interaction.  Masonry nails (that I started out with) turned into lethal projectiles with any miss-hits.

Thank you for the tips!  I do not have that book but will put a Christmas Amazon gift card to good use!

Jim

[1blueheron]

When you begin to work with heavy timbers, you will quickly find that those saw ponies are not over built at all.  Consider that the weight of one good sized rafter may weigh in excess of 800lbs, and you will be using that one saw pony as a fulcrum point to support its entire load as you move and turn the timber to cut the joinery.  They also have to bear a lot of beating and mallet blows and dynamic side loading which is the reason for the bracing and typically low height compared to a conventional saw horse.

In my build, I didn't use posts to support the roof structure.  It sits on top the walls, so my ICF walls are not segmented by posts.  They are a continuous pour.  If you choose good ICF blocks, blowouts are not an issue unless you over vibrate/consolidate or you use concrete with the wrong slump.  Another way to avoid blowouts is to do your walls in smaller lifts with multiple pours.  The wall structure  is not quite as strong this way because of seams,  but they are way overkill for strength anyway.  It gives you a lot more control and allows for a one man operation.

Here is a picture of the ceiling in our kitchen/great room.  We screwed sheetrock on the back of the sip for the ceiling.

[Ritchie200]

Wow!  That is beautiful!    Did you turn your own trunnels?  Dry? How did you set the roof trusses? Crane?

Yes I think I'll build a shed before I tackle a garage.   Like you said, I also think those saw ponies that all the books suggest you build first - are to weed out the less than capable that would hurt themselves with a screwdriver...  After all even Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."!

I've since done some research on the ICF walls.  Wow! You can go pretty tall and do a lot with those, and like you said, they are super strong.  It's like a tilt-up concrete wall without the huge crane and expense! Did you also have to buy the supporting/squaring structure, or can you rent that?  What did you end up using for exterior cladding? Did you have to frame up some furring strips for mounting?

Thanks again!  Sorry for all the questions, this stuff is so cool to me!
Jim

[1blueheron]

Trunnels are best rived.  You want the grain to be perfectly straight.  Simple to make them.  Find a nice clear piece of white oak or black locust firewood nice and dry.  Split it into roughly 1"X 1"  to 1-1/2" X  1-1/2" pieces.  Then a draw shave or hatchet is used to take the corners off and turn them into octagonal pegs.  The need to be drier than the beams they are driven into.  Riven octagonal trunnels are easier to drive, will stay straighter, and have less chance of splintering than lathe turned pegs.   A shaving horse is real handy for making them but you can make a dozen in a couple hours each evening while watching TV or sitting on your porch. Its also possible to make a jig and cut them on a table saw.

I set my trusses using a guyed mast (think Rohn G25 antenna mast) and a chain fall.  A more modern version of the traditional gin pole with block and tackle.  It was super simple and one man can easily hoist the 2000lb+ assembly into position.

ICF is very neat stuff and very DIY friendly.  Typically you can rent the bracing from your ICF supplier, or you can use 2x4 material and recycle it for framing interior partition walls.  The ICF blocks have built in attachment strips into which you can drive coarse threaded screws for attaching exterior siding and interior sheetrock.  A hot knife or electric chansaw is used to cut groves into the ICF after pouring for running electrical wires or if you are really energetic and like working with conduit, you can put conduit in the walls before pouring.

I used Reward Walls ICF system.  They are super tough.  We had no blowout issues and we poured 10.5" high walls in a single pour.

For exterior cladding I used Hardie Panel and concrete faux stone.

[jjasilli]

Great thread!

[Ritchie200]

Went to my friendly neighborhood sawmill for some white oak decking on an I-beam bridge I built over a wash.  Lucky to find this guy as it seems every white oak cut in Missouri is sold to the barrel stave companies for big dollars.  He told me I could save a few bucks on the board/ft cost if I gave him a hand since they were 3x8x12'.  Me being cheap and curious I went and helped.  He didnt think we could finish so I didnt take my truck - a VERY good thing come to find out...  Well, we finished in just a few hours.  He has a Woodmiser band mill with all the hydraulic goodies!  He said he bought it 15 years ago and it was $12K for the mill and $27K for the mill with hydraulics.  He bought it when he was 55 and got to thinking he sure isn't getting any younger so he went  with the upgrade.  He said it was the best investment he's ever made.  Watching him load, flip, and level those logs was amazing to watch and only took a matter of seconds.  Also found some lead balls in the middle of a VERY big log.  I wonder how old they were and what the story was.


Which brings me to the truck.  Didnt get back to the sawmill that day because I had to go pick up a load of hay.  Short drive and when I got home there was major diesel smell with a steady stream running onto the ground.  Sawmill is about a 45 minute drive.  I would have been stuck for sure had I made that trip.  Leaking at the injector fuel return lines and caps.  O'Reily's here I come.  Hard to find parts for a 94 Ford indirect injection turbo diesel as it was the limbo turbo year before the power stroke.  The rebuild kit was generic over a number of years and not for a turbo.  Had to reuse some caps. New lines, new o-rings, mostly new caps. I had two injectors to go and my wife calls me in for some lunch.  I go back out to find a gust of wind had taken my bag of o-rings and deposited them in the twighlight zone.  Crawled around for hours looking everywhere in the engine compartment and all around the truck.  Nothing.  Set another bag up to see where it blew to.  Nothing.  Beginning to wonder what I did in a previous life to deserve this...  Finally found it wedged deep in a yucca plant about 50ft away, impossible to see unless you separated the leaves.  What the heck!  Fortunately all the o-rings were still in the bag - phew!  All day job and I smell like a refinery.  I used to like working on this stuff!


Jim

[shooter]

I used to like working on this stuff!

yup, somewhere along the way it became a chore!
a nice sunny day, great music, one toke UNder the line, and I could tear down a dif, pull a head, swap out brakes n bearings........

wonder what I did in a previous life to deserve this...

I consider things like that as preparation for the future 

[1blueheron]

Went to my friendly neighborhood sawmill for some white oak decking on an I-beam bridge I built over a wash.  Lucky to find this guy as it seems every white oak cut in Missouri is sold to the barrel stave companies for big dollars.  He told me I could save a few bucks on the board/ft cost if I gave him a hand since they were 3x8x12'.  Me being cheap and curious I went and helped.  He didnt think we could finish so I didnt take my truck - a VERY good thing come to find out...  Well, we finished in just a few hours.  He has a Woodmiser band mill with all the hydraulic goodies!  He said he bought it 15 years ago and it was $12K for the mill and $27K for the mill with hydraulics.  He bought it when he was 55 and got to thinking he sure isn't getting any younger so he went  with the upgrade.  He said it was the best investment he's ever made.  Watching him load, flip, and level those logs was amazing to watch and only took a matter of seconds.  Also found some lead balls in the middle of a VERY big log.  I wonder how old they were and what the story was.
Good story!  Made me laugh, not at you misery but about the number of times I have had a similar experience.  Speaking of that, the wifes brakes are starting to grind, rotors were shot anyway so not a big deal.  Parts arrive friday from Rockauto. Know what I will be doing this weekend.  LOL

Which brings me to the truck.  Didnt get back to the sawmill that day because I had to go pick up a load of hay.  Short drive and when I got home there was major diesel smell with a steady stream running onto the ground.  Sawmill is about a 45 minute drive.  I would have been stuck for sure had I made that trip.  Leaking at the injector fuel return lines and caps.  O'Reily's here I come.  Hard to find parts for a 94 Ford indirect injection turbo diesel as it was the limbo turbo year before the power stroke.  The rebuild kit was generic over a number of years and not for a turbo.  Had to reuse some caps. New lines, new o-rings, mostly new caps. I had two injectors to go and my wife calls me in for some lunch.  I go back out to find a gust of wind had taken my bag of o-rings and deposited them in the twighlight zone.  Crawled around for hours looking everywhere in the engine compartment and all around the truck.  Nothing.  Set another bag up to see where it blew to.  Nothing.  Beginning to wonder what I did in a previous life to deserve this...  Finally found it wedged deep in a yucca plant about 50ft away, impossible to see unless you separated the leaves.  What the heck!  Fortunately all the o-rings were still in the bag - phew!  All day job and I smell like a refinery.  I used to like working on this stuff!


Jim

[shooter]

I didnt take my truck

so.....
truck workin?
wood gathered?
I still can't picture you haulin hay!  you'd be just like everyone here, except with big tubes 

[sluckey]

The number to call is BR549.

[shooter]

 
ur showing your age, well maybe his!

[sluckey]

And you make three! 

[Ritchie200]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, ha, ha.......

Truck is running, got wood, the hay is easy - I let my barn crew take care of that.

Jim

[sluckey]

Lulu said to Junior, "Junior, how come you never say anything nice about me?" Junior thinks for a moment then sez back, "Lulu, for a fat girl you sure don't sweat much."

[shooter]

 
I get some ugly looks when I say stuff like that now!

you have Hay roadies!!