More tremolo?

[Ed_Chambley]

I finally got around to trying this.  Love it!  Tonight my 73 Jacked up Super Reverb is getting it.

[sluckey]

I was hoping you would get around to trying this. Glad you like it.

[Ed_Chambley]

Well, you know me.  Added now to my Super Reverb, 73 model, which is Madly Modded and now is a 2 10 and tubed her up with some Philips 6L6 WGB (in fresh boxes, fans how does he do it.


Installed a cathode bias switch while I was in there, you know.  It sounds almost as good as the damn Hampeg you have.  Ever since I saw George Benson, he was young and I was very young.  He played a Twin with the tremolo intensity very little.  Appeard to be about 2 on the knob and speed was over 8.  Makes a very unique sustaining tone when the hollow body is just on the edge of feeding back.


Once I actually heard this, then I began to hear how many songs the guitar has tremolo on it.  Prior to that day, I really didn't care for AM.

[sluckey]

I bet it's not as ugly as my Hampeg! I may have to give that to you one of these days.

[Joel]

I'm looking to implement 2deaf's LND150 version into my amp; http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=24472.0

I have a Hoffman single channel AB763 Deluxe Reverb.  Instead of the 47K to ground after V3B I have a master volume pot.  Unfortunately, this is where the tremolo should be.  Anyone have any tips about how I should go about implementing this tremolo into my amp?

[2deaf]

Instead of the 47K to ground after V3B I have a master volume pot.

What size is the master volume?

[Joel]

1Meg.  Too large I know.  I've been planning on reducing it to around 100k.  Incorporating this Trem into the amp will give me the perfect opportunity.

[ac427v]

Just modded my Vibrochamp Reverb with the vactrol tremolo. Trem works great! Does not cause added distortion at higher intensity levels as the original VC preamp bias trem did. My amp is not a Deluxe Reverb like Joel's but has the fender Reverb. I could not resist using the freed-up triode for an extra gainstage like the CeeJay11 has. I'm still tweaking that to eliminate blocking distortion. Thanks for a great trem circuit!

[2deaf]

1Meg.  Too large I know.  I've been planning on reducing it to around 100k.  Incorporating this Trem into the amp will give me the perfect opportunity.

If I understand it correctly, leave the 1M master volume in and put the 50K reverse audio intensity pot in parallel with it.

[Joel]

That would mean that both controls would be highly interactive wouldn't it? 

Sluckey's original description says, "Intensity pot value depends on which part of the signal path you tap into. If you connect to a volume pot, then use the same value as that volume pot."

How exactly are we connecting to the volume pot?

[2deaf]

How exactly are we connecting to the volume pot?

Like this.

[Joel]

Thanks mate.  I appreciate it.  Now I need to find the time to try it out.

[Toxophilite]

I have to try 2deafs mod for a weak bug in rehearsal context, because I was trying the circuit as is in my vibrolux at rehearsal and one song has a very that's just tremelo chords with the trem set to the songs temp and I couldn't hear it very well and I have a fair amount of experience with tremelo from various amps.. Still a cool circuit but there must be something amiss with my vactrols.

[Toxophilite]

2deaf your insert variant seems to do the trick for the vactrol I'm using. Seems to be much more tremelo depth now.
I'll try it in rehearsal when my bass player returns in October.

Thanks!

[Leevi]

Has anyone applied this in Vibro champ type tremolo?


https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics/files/Fender/Fender_vibrochamp_aa764_schematic.pdf


/Leevi

[Ed_Chambley]

I bet it's not as ugly as my Hampeg! I may have to give that to you one of these days.

Sorry, been away!  You do know I need another amp!  And that amp looks perfect.  Think of playing behind a fence in a roadhouse and it fits right in.


Seriously, I wouldn't change it especially the white and black.  That is a country amp, well Country from like 1995 and older.  Jason Aldeen's guitar players both use MESA Dual Rectifiers and PRS guitars and i guess he is what is considered Country now.  It was so easy for me to hear Roy Nichols tone plugged straight in with that tele I had.

[sluckey]

I'm sure you've been watching Ken Burn's "Country Music" documentary on PBS? I've really been enjoying it. Tonight they get into Merle Haggard.

[Ed_Chambley]

I'm sure you've been watching Ken Burn's "Country Music" documentary on PBS? I've really been enjoying it. Tonight they get into Merle Haggard.

I have been.  Of course, my preference is the Jimmy Rogers over the Carter Family.  Plus, Ole Jimmy Rogers just took his guitar and himself and recorded in Brisol, leaving behind those who told him timing was bad.


I am not quite sure, but I am very partial to blue notes.  I will miss tonight and it is a 2 hour show so I cannot watch one whole show.  You can stream it from PBS.org and watch.  I just finished with Lefty Frizell/Hank Williams.

[Leevi]

I added this tremolo to Princeton reverb AA1164 by using the following setup (see the pic).
I also changed some cap values in the oscillator that are not visible in the picture.



I agree with other members that the concept is excellent.
Thanks Sluckey for sharing it.


/Leevi

[sluckey]

Glad someone has finally tried this in the Princeton. Did you experiment with different value Intensity pots? Now you're the goto guy for Princeton Trem-O-Nator. Thanks for sharing.

[Leevi]

I tried 250K pot without voltage divider (i.e. without grounding the pot) but the result was too weak (volume drop) on full intensity.


I also noticed that the tremolo effect was much weaker if you connect it before the 3.3M resistor.


/Leevi

[Toxophilite]

I added this tremolo to Princeton reverb AA1164 by using the following setup (see the pic).
I also changed some cap values in the oscillator that are not visible in the picture.



I agree with other members that the concept is excellent.
Thanks Sluckey for sharing it.


/Leevi

Do you have a schematic for the cap changes you implemented?

[Leevi]

No but I changed the 0.02 to 0.047 and the 0.01 (on the grid) to 0.02.
Together those will slow down the tremolo. Already the first change might be enough.


/Leevi

[Leevi]

How critical is the VTL5C1 to the design?  They're pretty scarce=expensive.  There are Chinese made ones on eBay but would they work the same in this circuit or are they junk?

I tested the following replacement and didn't find any difference.

https://www.banzaimusic.com/xvive-vtl5c1.html

/Leevi

[yorgle]

After fighting for weeks trying to add bias wiggle trem to my Valve Jr style creation, I stumbled upon this thread and WOW- what an utterly simple, brilliant idea!  I "borrowed" a photo-resistor from my son's snap circuits kit, stuck it and a yellow LED inside a short piece of black plastic tubing and taped the ends shut with electrical tape to seal out the light.  It works like magic-- smooth, rich wobblulations!

[kagliostro]

I'd like to see this thread moved to the Archives of Favorite Topics section

Franco

[Ed_Chambley]

I put this in a 5E3 and  JTM 45 this weekend.  Then I built, yes I actually built a pedal.  A tremolo on a marshall is very cool.  I took the thing to a place called Musicians Workshop in Asheville and didn't think I was ever going to get it back.

[guitylerham]

I also used this circuit in my DR style build before the master volume. No more thump! It really helped me out!

[ac427v]

I'm getting close to building a 6V6 Plexi with the VTL5C1 tremolo and variation of the one tube reverb. Hoping to tremulate only one channel but verb on both. I would appreciate ideas or input on any part of the schematic but especially on the tremolo insertion point and value on the intensity pot. Schematic voltages are guesses. Thanks in advance.--Craig

[sluckey]

the tremolo insertion point and value on the intensity pot.

Try it as drawn but be prepared to experiment with int pot value. May even need a resistor between the int pot and the vol pot. And be prepared to move it to the MV pot.

Here's an adaptation into a Dumble ODS last week. Forget about the components in the tube side and just look at the INT pot interface.

[Greenwichpaul]

What would be the best way to place the tremolo after the reverb?

[sluckey]

I would connect to point "R2".

[ac427v]

Thanks Sluckey. I 'm stubborn enough to try inserting as originally posted in an effort to keep the other channel trem-free. If that doesn't work I'll use R2 as a fall back plan. Gotta have my tremolo.
I am curious to know how the circuit was used in the ODS amp. That link won't work in Firefox.Craig

[sluckey]

Follow this link to the discussion on TAG. Start on page 12 and read to the end. The final circuit and a nice sound clip are there. You may have to sign up but that's quick and easy.

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16833&start=165

And here's the final schematic just for easy access...

[tubenit]

Does this look correct?   Sort of a crude "cut & paste" version.  I was trying to use Sluckey's layout as a starting place for someone to build a layout board with this design.

With respect, Tubenit

EDIT:  I added another layout board section that may be easier to read & indicates 5 rows of turrets to build.

[sluckey]

Yes, that's correct. Keep in mind that dbishopbliss originally designed the layout for Hoffman's bias vary trem. I adapted that layout for the Trem-o-nator circuit. If I had designed this trem circuit on a fresh board the layout would most likely be a bit different.

[ac427v]

Thanks again. Looks like the ODS version would use the same layout as the original Treminator so I can start cutting and drilling my board and use either set of component values when I build.

[Williamblake]

How much voltage would a vtl5C1 or other need at least? Like 0.8V, if you replaced a marshal 18W tremolo 820R resistor with a diode? Maybe 0.5V?

And thanks for posting all this by the way, Jens.

[shooter]

How much voltage

read the post(s) on pg2, just skimmed seen, #'s, reasons, trials..... 

[purpletele]

The Trem-O-Nator looks like a great mod, I have two AB763's and a Princeton.  I also have a little time to start doing some amp work.

I just ordered some 50K RA pots, can I get verification that I am ordering the correct Vactrol VTL5C1's?

They are about $10 on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/331860686515

Thank you all ahead of time, I'm sure I'll have a few questions after I study the changes on the two Hoffman boards.

BV

[sluckey]

The one from eBay is made by Xvive, not Vactrol, but it should work fine.

[purpletele]

The one from eBay is made by Xvive, not Vactrol, but it should work fine.

I'll start a new thread for the Hoffman AB763 as well as the Princeton when the parts come in and I have my layout edited.

Thanks

BV

[tubenit]

I am still pondering how to shoehorn a tremolo in one of my 3 amps. So, I have a question.

Rearranging my layout board, I can exchange active FX for reverb.  And IF I drop one of the 4 gain stages, I can have a triode to do this Vactrol tremolo idea.

However,  I don't really have enough room on the board to install everything (without gutting almost all the layout board and starting over which I'm not gonna do). 

I've been thinking about IF I make a small layout board for just the Vactrol and then mount it vertically (as opposed to the horizontal layout board) that this may work?  While it would not be under the heater wiring, it would be somewhat close to it.

As I understand it, the tremolo doesn't carry a signal but does alter the signal (& volume) to make tremolo?  So, I am thinking that the tremolo section would be less prone to having oscillation and noise problems as opposed to a regular gain stage?  Would this be correct in my thinking?

I'm presuming the tremolo section would not add noise within it's own system but perhaps could induce noise into gain stages next to it? 

I have to experiment with changing the gain structure of the amp 1st to see if this is a reasonable thing to do.

Thoughts?     Thanks and with respect, Tubenit

[sluckey]

That should work. Depending on how far the INT pot is from the Optocoupler and the injection point, you may need to shield those two wires. I'd try without shield first.

BTW, tremolo is a signal, just not an audio signal. It's a very clean sine wave that can be measured and observed with an oscilloscope just like any other signal. But it is only about 5Hz, so you can't hear it.

Also, 2deaf developed a MOSFET version of this. I think the schematic is in this thread.

[kagliostro]

Ciao Steve

Don't remember if I've asked this previously

Will your Enanched Tremolo function in a circuit like the Ampeg Gemini 15 ?



Thanks

Franco

[sluckey]

Yes, but the insertion point could not be points X and Y like the Ampeg.

[kagliostro]

Yes, but the insertion point could not be points X and Y like the Ampeg.

So the reply is NO (probably I didn't ask in the correct way), I was meaning for a connection to points X & Y

Thanks Steve

Franco

[sluckey]

I probably should have explained. In the Ampeg, the LDR part of the optocoupler is connected in ***SERIES*** with the guitar path. And the tremolo circuit is designed such that the neon bulb part of the optocoupler is illuminated when the footswitch is turned off. The continuous light shines on the LDR and it's resistance is a constant low value. This allows the guitar signal to pass through points X and Y with very little attenuation.

My circuit is designed to shunt the guitar path to ground. In my circuit when the footswitch is off, the LED is also off (no light), so the LDR has a very high resistance. If you used my circuit connected to points X and Y, when you turned the footswitch off your guitar signal would be choked off, just like turning off a water valve.

My circuit would be very effective if it was simply connected to V3 pin 7.

[kagliostro]

OK, Understand


But what if we don't consider the Foot Switch and we connect the photoresistor of the photocoupler to the X & Y instead of to the wiper & ground ?


Franco

[tubenit]

That should work. Depending on how far the INT pot is from the Optocoupler and the injection point, you may need to shield those two wires. I'd try without shield first.   Also, 2deaf developed a MOSFET version of this. I think the schematic is in this thread.

Thanks Steve!  Always grateful for your generous help!   I should know in a day or two whether this is a reasonable thing to try. 

With respect, Tubenit