Chris Stapleton '62 Princeton - why better than a stock 6G2?

[sam]

Hello,
Besides a 12" speaker and 'hand wired". Anyone have an idea what makes the Chris Stapleton Edition '62 Princeton better than a stock 6G2?

[purpletele]

Hello,
Besides a 12" speaker and 'hand wired". Anyone have an idea what makes the Chris Stapleton Edition '62 Princeton better than a stock 6G2?

If you are referring to the Princeton Reissue as a comparison then I offer the following:

1.  The 12" speaker is a big deal.
2.  The handwired aspect would indicate to me that the Pots and switches would be nice hardware.
3.  The handwired aspect would indicate that there is some real attention going into this amp.
4.  Check the specs on the cabinet, but I think they use nice lightweight wood on the cabinet and that is a real big deal for tone with a 12" speaker.

5.  I have worked on those production boards and switches in a Champ and a Deluxe and they really have a short lifespan from small part issues such as pots soldered to the board, etc.

That's my 2 cents.

[nandrewjackson]

I looked at sweetwaters listing for the chris S version. It sure looks like a premium product.


"Better " ?


Not better for the checking account.


The listing says something about built with "blue" capacitors,  but the gutshot clearly shows Illinois power caps, there's definitely more premium caps on the market other than Illinois, makes me wonder...

[vampwizzard]

Schumacher transformers which basically means they didnt use the cheaper chinese ones this time around. They also most likely mimicked the real world resistor values in Chris' real amps. Im not sure if they adjusted the B+ voltages so you wouldnt have to use the RX Brownbox like he does. Its just one that are somewhat hard to find and they hadnt reissued in a while. Go watch his last time on SNL with Sturgill to get an idea of what they sound like cranked. pretty solid.

[bmccowan]

This link [https://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-FEN-8151800-LIST] includes a gut shot of the amp with a zoom window. I had decided to build a 6G2 after reading about the originals, and after building a 6G3 Deluxe which I really like. Right after collecting the parts I saw this reissue and its price, and felt better about the $ I'd spent. Just starting the build.
The changes I see in this CS model are:

Additional fuses for the heaters and B+. Is this a UL thing?
Diodes on both the power tube and rectifier sockets. I do not plan to do this.
Adjustable fixed bias. I plan the same.
Power tube screen resistors. Same here.
Preamp grounds to chassis bolts no brass plate. Same.
Ventilated chassis. I doubt the need for this.
3 axial filter caps. I'm using a 2x32 F&T can and a 20 axial on the board near the preamp tubes.
I read that Chris's amp had mods to the trem circuit - can't see the pots - but its power tube bias modulation which is std I think.
They kept the original heater wiring scheme which surprised me - maybe I should not bother with twisted pairs?
My current plan is mostly stock. Using a Classic Tone PT that allows me to shoot for 320V and has a bias tap. Typical deluxe reverb bias spec with adjustable bias. Adjustable feedback resistance, or a switch for two values (56K & maybe 150K.) M-150 tone caps.
Comments and ideas are encouraged and I can post some progress photos if there is interest.   

[SILVERGUN]

I looked at sweetwaters listing for the chris S version. It sure looks like a premium product.


"Better " ?


Not better for the checking account.


The listing says something about built with "blue" capacitors,  but the gutshot clearly shows Illinois power caps, there's definitely more premium caps on the market other than Illinois, makes me wonder...

The Illinois caps you see are the filter caps...specific brands don't matter there unless you can figure out which ones are more reliable and use them. No effect on "tone"

If you look at the gutshot you'll see some big blue coupling caps labeled "FENDER", those are what they are referring to

[nandrewjackson]

I figured they were the filter caps.


And I'm not knocking Illinois caps.
I'm more than happy to use illinois caps myself.  I'm grateful that Illinois is available,  mid-priced and reliable, what more could a builder ask for?


The price tag on the amp says BMW, but they used Hyundai parts.

[SILVERGUN]

Hello,
Besides a 12" speaker and 'hand wired". Anyone have an idea what makes the Chris Stapleton Edition '62 Princeton better than a stock 6G2?

It's just a timely marketing idea.
Chris is popular right now and has a solid/stripped down tone that is really nothing special.
The first time I heard the hit riff I thought - Tele into Bassman, and maybe it was in the studio.
You just can't crank a Bassman live anymore so he is using a better alternative.
Fender saw an opportunity for profit and jumped on it.

I do like a 12" speaker better than a 10" across the board, so I get that part of it.

I'd make a 6G2 and tweak it to my tastes and try to sell it as my signature model, and I'll be lucky to get parts cost back out of it, even if it were the exact same tweaks.
It would sound just as good as the $2000 version, but until CS plugs into it I'm screwed

[sam]

Thanks for all the great reply's. I too like the idea of a 12" speaker. And the "Fender" blue coupling caps may not be anything special.

[sam]

 Home brew 6G2. My pal got an amp out of the dumpster several years ago. It came from UK, was 250V main. So I gutted it and made it into something else...

 

[Ritchie200]

SG, I don't think even CS could save your signature model.  There just are not too many people like you (much less even bedroom musicians), who fanboy over Wham!, Culture Club, Frankie Goes To Hollywood, and....Flock of Seagulls.  I'm afraid you are screwed. 

I read where Chris was writing with Peter Frampton and Peter had a 62 PR and he liked the way it sounded.  So he went to the local music shop and low and behold, there was another one.  That's what got him started.  He sounds like a pretty utilitarian kind of guy - sounds good, get another, get a spare, I'm good.  He said he used that first one on all the studio stuff.  He seems like a cool dude - very humble.

Sam, there is a very interesting thread here on the sonic differences between different mfg coupling caps. Just do a search. Pretty cool stuff!

Jim

[Ritchie200]

This will get you started.

Jim

http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=478.0

[bmccowan]

My favorite quote from that cap thread is:
"It (the different sound) is probably due to the different materials that they are made with and the way they are made."
I mean; is there anything else? The latitude of the mfg facility? The moon phase at the time of mfg?
For me, it comes down to logic. If the signal passes through the cap, the cap has some influence. But that influence likely depends on many other factors: the voltage at that stage; the tubes used in the circuit; and so on. I think the cap type makes some difference, so I use what I like for the particular amp type or purpose in the circuit. This is usually 150 Mallory, 716 or PS series Orange Drops. I also have some NOS Greenie Cornell Dubliers and I use them for appropriate vintage rebuilds.

[vampwizzard]

Additional fuses for the heaters and B+. Is this a UL thing?
Diodes on both the power tube and rectifier sockets. I do not plan to do this.

Probably to meet a Canadian or European requirement moreso than a US standard. If CS did it on his id guarantee it was to protect the transformer considering he most likely runs it full tilt all the time. Thats probably why the diodes were there too.. prevent flyback transient damage to the OT.

Thats an incredibly helpful link too.. thank you for sharing that! I want to see a build diary. I love them.

[bmccowan]

Thanks Vamp, Canada or Europe having more safety regs than us? Who'd a thunk it?
I agree on the purpose of the diodes. I am not familiar with new production amps, so was wondering if those fuses and diodes were standard fare these days.
I will start another thread for the amp build. It'll go slow as I have work and some other hobbies that get in the way.

[PRR]

> Europe having more safety regs than us? Who'd a thunk it?

Europe runs 240V. Their worry is shock. US/Can runs 120V. Our worry is fire more than shock. So there are detail differences in the regulations.

Canada is much like the US but a hair more conservative. A few things legal in US Code are no-go in the Canadian Code, particularly orientation of main breakers in the cellar fusebox(?). I'm not aware of any major difference in appliance regulations. It may be that all my US appliances also fit Canada code for manufacturing simplicity.

That amp costs a lot because it is not in large production, and because it is "Special". It has the Famous Player endorsement. It is not assembled by robots on PCBs. It is not HungLo or WeiPe capcitors from an Asian alley. Does that make it better? I don't know. Will $1,999 make me play like Chris Stapleton? I doubt it.

[shooter]

much like the US but a hair more conservative

maybe by ME standards, but MI standards put 'em pretty liberal 

[vampwizzard]

Thanks Vamp, Canada or Europe having more safety regs than us? Who'd a thunk it?

 

The more I think about it the more I think they probably copied those features from Chris' amp which was probably modded to be more reliable on the road. They got those brownbox RX power conditioners/attenuators for a reason.