Fat E-Bike build

[EL34]

I am getting ready for another bike build.
This one is going to be a fat bike with a E-Bike electric motor kit added.

I added a pic of the Fat Bike bike carcass I am starting with.
Many of the parts will get upgraded.
I am only interested in the frame and the wheels for this project

So I decided to go through my bike tool box to have a look at all the old bike tools I have collected since working on bikes in the 1970's.

I'll be posting YouTube video links as do the build

Here the YouTube video of my bike tool collection

[EL34]

A couple pics of my favorite bikes that I scratch built

Both bikes are Carbon fiber frames, Carbon fiber wheels and Carbon fiber parts
1 x 11 Sram XX1 drive trains - 5 piece group
Shimano XT hydraulic brakes - best work horse brakes ever

My mountain bike and gravel road bike

[shooter]

Nice, I rode a Fat tire this yr, kinda cool.  My Son-in-law is a sales rep for JB bikes.  His garage is a mini where house    It is nice "test riding" a $5,000.00 bike. 

E-Bike electric motor kit added

I've got a '40s "skip-chain" bike I'd like to rat-ride electrify !

[EL34]

Nice, I rode a Fat tire this yr, kinda cool.  My Son-in-law is a sales rep for JB bikes.  His garage is a mini where house    It is nice "test riding" a $5,000.00 bike. 

E-Bike electric motor kit added

I've got a '40s "skip-chain" bike I'd like to rat-ride electrify !

Look at all the cool styles E-bikes come in these days
The motors are built into the rear hubs on many models
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ebike&ref=nb_sb_noss

[Ritchie200]

What advantage are the fat tires on the trails? I can see on the beach.  Seems like a lot to pedal?

Jim

[EL34]

What advantage are the fat tires on the trails? I can see on the beach.  Seems like a lot to pedal?
Jim

The big tires roll right over everything
Fat bikes are very popular with some people
I see them out on the trail once in a while

[EL34]

I decided to do my first Ebike build with a cheap Fat bike and a Luna Fourth Anniversary BBSHD Mid Drive Kit Special.
The motor kit may take a couple weeks to arrive, so I am prepping the bike while I wait


The bike is a Mongoose Hitch steel bike.
The frame is very solid and the wheels are very solid also.
It's a cheap steel bike, but I am only after the Frame and the wheels for this build
I have a bunch of nicer parts that I already had on hand that will replace the crappy steel parts that come on the bike.


If all goes well and I like the bike after it is finished, my plan is to build up a full carbon Fat bike using my source for carbon parts, Peter at xmcarbonspeed.com.
I have scratch build a couple full carbon MTN bikes using carbon part from Peter, but I have never had or built a Fat bike.


So the Mongoose Hitch arrived and the build has started.
I'll be posting build notes when I get further along
I have 3 build videos so far on YouTube that I will link to.


Youtube build video #1

Youtube build video #2

Youtube build video #3

[shooter]

the video answered the brake question, I was amazed 1st time I locked up a nice hydraulic, I was movin, then I wasn't!, but kept balance fine.
gotta watch the motor in the Pisgah, we got hassled by Barny Fife; cuz wez in da bakcuntry 
one of the kids with my had a CD player n Barney sighted the new rules about NO motorized equipment in the back country ; ann dat plyr haz a motr 

so if you like it, you going wireless shifters 

[EL34]

the video answered the brake question, I was amazed 1st time I locked up a nice hydraulic, I was movin, then I wasn't!, but kept balance fine.
gotta watch the motor in the Pisgah, we got hassled by Barny Fife; cuz wez in da bakcuntry 
one of the kids with my had a CD player n Barney sighted the new rules about NO motorized equipment in the back country ; ann dat plyr haz a motr 

so if you like it, you going wireless shifters 

Hyfraulic brakes have been standard equipment on decent bikes for many years 

The trails here are all marked if Ebikes are allowed or not

Wireless shifters on this bike?
No, maybe on my high end Carbon fiber bikes, but I would not do it to this bike

[tubenit]

My son-in-law in Winston-Salem used to work at a bike store in Texas.  His only bike now is a FAT tire bike. 

I've never ridden one, but the idea of one has intrigued me.  Never heard of an "E" bike til this. 

This looks to be a very interesting project!  Thanks for sharing it. 

With respect, Jeff

As an FYI,  I had a total left knee replacement 7&1/2 weeks ago and just was able to get back on my mountain bike two days ago.  Felt good to do so.  Not safe enough for me to ride the neighborhood with hills and loose dogs yet.

[EL34]

The build is coming along nicely
I should be able to get the wheels converted to tubeless today

It will be a couple more weeks until the Luna ebike kit arrives

[tubenit]

Well, I watched a couple of short YouTubes on the "E" bikes including one where an Australian guy converts a Trek mountain bike into one in an hour (How to make an Ebike in under an hour).  I think I have the "basic concept" of the E bike now.  As I am understanding it, one's pedaling is being supplemented by an electric motor "also" turning the wheel.

This looks like FUN!  Sort of a cross between a bicycle and an electric motorcycle.

(I lived in Taipei, Taiwan in '61 and '62 and I can remember these super tiny gas motors that the Chinese put on the front wheels to motorize their bicycles.)

Jeff

[EL34]

Well, I watched a couple of short YouTubes on the "E" bikes including one where an Australian guy converts a Trek mountain bike into one in an hour (How to make an Ebike in under an hour).  I think I have the "basic concept" of the E bike now.  As I am understanding it, one's pedaling is being supplemented by an electric motor "also" turning the wheel.

This looks like FUN!  Sort of a cross between a bicycle and an electric motorcycle.

(I lived in Taipei, Taiwan in '61 and '62 and I can remember these super tiny gas motors that the Chinese put on the front wheels to motorize their bicycles.)

Jeff

Yes, it's called pedal assist
The electronics sense when you are pedaling and adds a boost.
You can choose different levels of boost

There is also a torque sensor on some motors that can sense how hard you are pedaling

You also can have a throttle that just runs the motor
So if you have to get away from a car or something, you can hit the throttle for a big burst of speed

You can also add a shift sensor which will detect when the shift cables are moving and it will cut the motor

There are also brake sensors that cut the motor off when you pull on a brake lever

Pretty cool stuff

[tubenit]

That's some incredible technology!  I can easily see why you're interested in this as it combines your interest in technology with your interest, skill and passion for cycling.  And it's new enough to still be innovative particularly in the DIY approach like you're taking.

 

Very cool stuff!

Jeff

[shooter]

an Artist buddy of mine built a rat bike, 2cycle chainsaw motor, with a shift arm from a '60s mack semi, dog included:), it would hit 45 on the street     He'd ride it around when the city shut down a street for "art day"

[EL34]

Video #4
Converting the Fat wheels to tubeless wheels

[tubenit]

Enjoying the video narrative!  Thanks for sharing.   

Jeff

[EL34]

Video #5


This is the final video before I start the Ebike build
I go over all the stock parts I replaced with better parts

The UPS tracking shows that the Ebike parts will be here today. 

[EL34]

Video #6 shows all the Luna kit parts and the install on the fat bike

[tubenit]

THANKS for sharing this!  This has been a really really interesting video. I am amazed that you were able to install the Luna parts in one evening.

I will sure look forward to a video of you riding the FAT-E.

I am curious ……………   Not sure how to ask the question (?) ……….. is there a "latency" with the motor kicking in or shutting off OR is it "instantly right there" or instantly removed"?   Does the question make sense?

I'm wondering how smoothly the motor kicks in or shuts off and do you feel the gearcase "jump" in a way that lacks smoothness?

With respect,  Jeff

[EL34]

THANKS for sharing this!  This has been a really really interesting video. I am amazed that you were able to install the Luna parts in one evening.

I will sure look forward to a video of you riding the FAT-E.
I am curious ……………   Not sure how to ask the question (?) ……….. is there a "latency" with the motor kicking in or shutting off OR is it "instantly right there" or instantly removed"?   Does the question make sense?
I'm wondering how smoothly the motor kicks in or shuts off and do you feel the gearcase "jump" in a way that lacks smoothness?
With respect,  Jeff

Rained all day here on Sunday, so I could not shoot a ride video

You would not want the bike to take off if you were just mounting the bike and getting going
As soon as you start pedaling, you feel the motor kick in and assist you.
Maybe 1 or 2 seconds later in real time.

I will have to measure the time and see

When you shift gears, the motor cuts off right away
The gear shift happens real smoothly without slamming the drive train hard
Then the motor kicks back in and continues on


In the setup menu, I found that you can set 5 or 9 levels of pedal assist
I had it set to 5 when I tested it

Level 1 assist was ok on flat ground, but not on hills
That's because this bike is really heavy

Level 2 was almost way too easy
It felt like I was not getting much exercise at all
Even up really steep grades, level 2 assist was really easy to pedal

So the I saw in the menu you can set the assist to 9 levels
I only tested it briefly and it is was much better having the finer steps of assist

So now level 4 assist is now what level 2 was when it was set to 5 levels of assist

Have to do more testing but now I think it will be much better having the 9 assist levels
Level 2 and 3 may be what I find I use in order to actually pedal and feel like I am getting some exercise

[tubenit]

Will definitely look forward to your riding video!  Don't know if it's feasible for you but I'd like to see a video of you on the bike riding it.  Some of the E-bike stuff I saw was just the front of the bike and the road as the guy had a cam on his helmet or something.

Thanks for the response!  IF I am understanding you,  once the motor kicks in,  it's pretty smooth after that? But there is some latency with the initial motor kicking in?

Jeff

[EL34]

Don't know how I would film myself riding a bike   

Yes, the motor only starts after you have pedaled a couple times
That's good because you want to be on the bike and seated before the motor kicks in

If you were throwing a leg over the bike and hit the pedals, the bike could lunge forward
And you don't want that to happen

You can also set the assist level to zero to be safe
Then set the assist level once you are sitting on the bike

The thumb switch on my left handle bars lets you set the assist levels while you are riding
there is a + and - button to go up and down

[tubenit]

Don't know how I would film myself riding a bike  :icon_biggrin

: 

I was thinking if you were riding with a cycling buddy they could film you OR set up a tripod with timer and simply ride by.  I just wanted to see the bike with a person on it going by.  No big deal either way.  I was only thinking of a 10 second clip or something like that?  I'm still trying to envision the shifting, E-motor and pedaling inter-relationship.

Whatever you share will be great!     I've appreciated the videos you've posted. Thanks!

Jeff

[EL34]

Don't know how I would film myself riding a bike  :icon_biggrin

: 

I was thinking if you were riding with a cycling buddy they could film you OR set up a tripod with timer and simply ride by.  I just wanted to see the bike with a person on it going by.  No big deal either way.  I was only thinking of a 10 second clip or something like that?  I'm still trying to envision the shifting, E-motor and pedaling inter-relationship.

Whatever you share will be great!     I've appreciated the videos you've posted. Thanks!

Jeff

i would just go rent a Ebike and take it for a spin
has to be someone in Charlotte that is a Ebike dealer?

[EL34]

I took the fat pig out for a steep gravel road climb

[Ritchie200]

I like your last comment!  I was just going to ask....  I am nowhere near the biker you are but I love my full suspension bike on a trail like that.  Does being tubeless make a big difference in ride?  Could you have adjusted pressure for a better ride if a tube tire?  Also, does that motor have a engage recharge option for a downhill run like that?  Would/could it allow for a little motor braking?

Jim

[EL34]

I like your last comment!  I was just going to ask....  I am nowhere near the biker you are but I love my full suspension bike on a trail like that.  Does being tubeless make a big difference in ride?  Could you have adjusted pressure for a better ride if a tube tire?  Also, does that motor have a engage recharge option for a downhill run like that?  Would/could it allow for a little motor braking?

Jim

Tubeless lets you use lower tire pressures and no pinch flats are a bonus
All my good bikes have been converted to tubeless

You should be able to go down to 7 pounds pressure on 4 inch tires like this
I am finding out that the rims and wire bead tires on this fat bike are no good for tubeless
They won't hold the bead when I lower the pressure down
They start leaking

I am probably going to have to put the tubes back in on these cheap wheels

The crank arms freewheel inside the motor just like a cassette does
The motor is not connected when you are not pedaling
The bike just becomes a normal bike when you are not pedaling

[PRR]

Electric bikes, bah.

Real power:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/jct-mammoth.html
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/jc-p400-pro.html

I think one 89lb engine will push your slim ass on that fat bike up a 22% grade, no pedal. Two engines would climb the old cog-railway route on the mountain near me. Traction not a problem.

[shooter]

 
AND it's $200 off!
I wouldn't recommend wearing polyester 

[Ritchie200]

25 hour cycle time before rebuild - ouch!  That's not very many hills!  And for that money you could hire someone to do the pedaling!

However, it has been done!  What I like are the FIA/NASCAR/Indycar/etc. approved fuel cells mounted in a safe location....

Jim

[EL34]

Not very practical

[tubenit]

Thanks for sharing that video of the ride!  That looks like ALOT of fun!

Looks like you were flying going down that hill! Pretty gutsy.

I am amazed at your ability to think thru technology and find useful applications for it. 

This entire video series has been great!

With respect,  Jeff

[EL34]

Thanks for sharing that video of the ride!  That looks like ALOT of fun!

Looks like you were flying going down that hill! Pretty gutsy.

I am amazed at your ability to think thru technology and find useful applications for it. 

This entire video series has been great!

With respect,  Jeff

I am working on rounding up the carbon parts for the fat bike
The Mongoose was just a test subject to see if I liked the bike

[shooter]

They won't hold the bead when I lower the pressure down
They start leaking

I know from my jeep days this was a big problem also, I finally had to get a set of bead-lock rims.  There such an animal for bikes?

(The jeep alternative probably not to practical, a 5gal air tank, with 50-80 psi, gate-valve, chucked down to tire inflator, seat, throw valve, POW, bead seated!!!)

[EL34]

They won't hold the bead when I lower the pressure down
They start leaking

I know from my jeep days this was a big problem also, I finally had to get a set of bead-lock rims.  There such an animal for bikes?
(The jeep alternative probably not to practical, a 5gal air tank, with 50-80 psi, gate-valve, chucked down to tire inflator, seat, throw valve, POW, bead seated!!!)

I just put the tubes back in and was able to ride at 8 pounds pressure with no problems at all
I could go down to 5 or 6 pounds

I am not doing any more to this bike
It was just a test platform to see if I liked it
The motor kit is going to get transferred over to a full carbon Fat Bike

Carbon Frame and Fork
Carbon Wheel set

[EL34]

Here's the final video on the Big Red Fat Pig bike.
The next build stage is transfering the Luna BBSHD motor kit over to a Full Carbon fiber Frame, fork and wheel set.

I added a screen shot of the  carbon parts I orderedI ordered black hubs and spokes

Here's the youtube video link

Here's the carbon parts I ordered
I ordered black hubs and spokes

[PRR]

NOT the same genre but I thought of you anyway.

What do you get when you cross an e-bike with a supercar?
Technically a bicycle —
The Vintage Roadster offers a load of performance in a gorgeous package.

$7000, 4000 watts (in "off road" mode)

[shooter]

I rode a motorless bike that was home-built at around $8k, so $7k with a motor is a bargain   
my drone has a something called ludicrous mode, near doubles the flight speed from 22mph to 42mph.
It's too fast for the collision arrays to process, so flyer beware