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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: 1930's radio conversion  (Read 2508 times)

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Offline ALBATROS1234

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1930's radio conversion
« on: October 25, 2022, 09:55:20 pm »
So, some of you may remember me. I have been lurking at the forum but have been doing well with my tube experiments. Lately I have been tinkering with 1930's and 40's radios as well as the guitar amp thing. I ended up buying a lot of radio's in need of work. One was a Philco model 60 chassis which is about a 1935 vintage. In my experiments I have noticed I like the sound of older tubes in a guitar amp. To my ear the older stuff gives a more raw bluesy tone that a 12ax7/6V6 amp cannot duplicate. I got the idea I would convert this radio chassis into a guitar amp. The plan was to have a sharp cutoff pentode as V1 in this case I used a 77 which became the 6J7 and later the 6SJ7. I wanted to have a bit more gain that just coupling that with a 42 which is a 6 pin version of a 6F6g pentode. So I felt a 75 which is the forerunner to a 6Q7 and later a 6SQ7 which as many of you would know is a 100mu triode with 2 diodes in the same envelope to act as detector and 1st stage audio in a radio would be a nice addition. The model 60 had a 6A7 1st RF followed by a 78 which is a remote cutoff pentode , basically a 6K7, then a 75 and a 42 with an 80 (4 pin ST 5Y3). So my design work began. I set up the 77 kinda like a 6SJ7 in a champ into a 75 with the diodes grounded into a single ended power section using the 42(6F6g). It sounded fair when I first fired it up but then testing revealed the plate dissipation for the 42 was crazy high. Like close to 20 watts when a 6F6 is max 11watts. so I started playing with the Kathode resistor. I got up to 1.2kohms @ 10 watts resistor and at this point the voltage was up to 400volts but still the Plate dissipation was 14watts.  The tone is fair at best in any plate dissipation level. It actually sounded a bit better when I was cooking the pentode but this 85 year old tube is not going to last any time under this stress. My question is how to I fix it? This radio only had one more tube I can't see how the tranny is supplying so much extra current and voltage but is there a way to tame this? Is it as simple as adding hi wattage resistors to the p.s. or somehow redirecting power to ground in the p.s.? If so is there a formula or schematic which has been used to tame down this situation? I feel like this could potentially be a blues machine if I could get the plate dissipation under control for the vintage tubes. I seem to remember there was some guitar amps that cut down voltage/ power in the power supply but I don't recall the model #'s can anyone suggest a way to tame down the plate dissipation because the higher value of resistor slows the current but the voltage creeps so high I fear these old tubes will fry like a sunny side up egg in bacon grease. Any suggestion welcome.

Offline thetragichero

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2022, 11:41:53 pm »
i'm all about salvaging old equipment (pa and organ amps, at least) but tube radios of this vintage can fetch a pretty hefty penny in good working condition. you might wanna restore em and buy a ton of parts with the proceeds. just a thought

Offline PRR

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2022, 12:32:39 pm »
> Philco model 60

Not much clue. Show the plan as it is NOW. Tell us the voltages around the output stage. Did you bypass the field coil? That was a major part of the power supply. I doubt a '42 on that power transformer can be happy without an equally large drop resistor. Back-bias gone?

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2022, 07:08:16 pm »
Sorry it took a minute to get back. PRR as usual you may be absolutely correct. I did eliminate the field coil and am using a 1957 alnico 12". I just designed a basic guitar amp P.S. Although I did add an additional resistor in series before the first node but it was only 200ohm 5watt so like you suggest a field coil may be necessary as they are 1 to 3Kohm in general. I will mod it and see if that helps. It always helps to get a fresh pair of eyes and you got a sharp pair. Thanks because I just missed that even though I have repaired dozens of radios of this vintage all of which have field coils and I have even had to replace a field coil with a resistor in certain cases. I have a few old chokes too so I am going to take a look at this. I just slapped my forehead when I read your post. Thanks again.

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2022, 02:55:05 am »
@thetragic hero. This is a chassis that was basically junk that I got as part of a lot I have 2 exactly alike and both are missing original parts, there is no actual original wooden case, or speaker/O.T. assy. It basically was an old rusty chassis with a good P.T. (insulation on the leads was dust so I rewired the P.T)and 4,5 and 6 pin tube sockets. So I dug up some appropriate tubes and O.T. scavenged from a vintage trashed Reel to Reel and designed a circuit. Bottom line if I had sunk $25 in parts I could make it worth $25 to a radio restorer who would use it or parts because there is no case or field coil speaker to make into a radio. It was an extremely common model as well not a rare gem that someone would love to have to fix some collectors item. I feel like I am giving it a new life.

Offline ALBATROS1234

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2022, 06:41:24 pm »
PRR saves the day...again...I am thankful and feel like a dope at the same time. I have on several occasions while working on radios had to replace a field coil with a resistor. I stuck a 10 watt 1.2k Ohm in the P.S. and was able to tame the 42 down with  330ohm 5 watter . I did use a 22uf bypass which did the tone a lot of favors. I may tweak it a little bit but it is now a damn good sounding blues/classic rock amp as is with about 8.5 watts plate dissipation. I really love the way old tubes sound, they seem to have a ton of harmonic content. if you want polished get some 12ax7s but if you want raw gutsy tone you can't beat octal, and earlier preamp tubes as well as early ST types. I really like 6F6g so I guess that's why I like the 42 power pentode. I have a 77 which is the forerunner to a 6J7 and therefore a 6SJ7 as V1 and a 100MU triode in a 75 the daddy to the 6Q7 and grandad to the 6SQ7. She is a very nice 1930's mixed with a bit of experimentation blues machine now. Can you tell I am a bit happy. Going to go play around a bit. Thanks again PRR for showing me I need a dunce cap sometimes.

Offline scstill

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Re: 1930's radio conversion
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2022, 07:37:06 pm »

 


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