Scored a Vista 640 AM/SW/FM Radio/Amp Yesterday

[Platefire]

I usually pass on radios but this was quite different than I usually see in thrift shops. First it's big, 8"Dx12"H x 21" L unusually large for this type of radio. When I loosened the screws to the back panel and peaked inside I saw power transformer, output transformer, 6BQ5 power tube, 6x4 rectifier and with all the radio tubes in there couldn't identify the V1 Preamp? I knew one in there would be a RF pre-amp type. So this spelled out out to me the possibility of some kind of guitar amp! Lastly with the price they had on it, I went for it.

Turns out as I found out after I got home and did some research, the V1 pre-amp is a 6AQ8 which my research told me it was equivalent to a 12AT7.

The dilemma I'm having now is after I got it home I realized what great physical shape. I brought it up on a light bulb limiter and it worked without any issues, so I brought it up on full power as far as I can tell, it's working very good.
It is made in Japan by MATSUSHITA Electric and the build quality looks very good.  So I'm having second thoughts of parting it out and maybe selling it to a radio collector??   Here is some pictures

[acheld]

That's about the cleanest old radio I've ever seen.

Not sure what it's worth, but I think it belongs in a collector's hands.   Normally, I'd say gut it, but that looks really sweet.

[Dave]

It's junk. Want me to get rid of it for you?


Dave

[shooter]

I'm having second thoughts

my 1st thought was leave it as is, IF you really wanna play guitar through it, jack in at the PA, use a gain pedal and whatever else into that, wire up an external speaker

[Platefire]

Well if I want to play through it as is, the best way is to use the "Phono Jack"! The weird thing about it is, it has a Phono setting "PH" on the selector switch but problem is, I can't find no phono jack?? See picture of Selector Switch and can you think of anything else "PH" would stand for??? Also pictured below is the only jacks that are located on the
back panel for antennas and something called the Multiplex Output. Another next to it that I would guess is a ground connection judging from the symbol over it. BTW, the picture of the selector switch looks like the face  is bent, but it's just a reflection.

[bmccowan]

Agree - don't gut. Its too nice. new filter caps. play around with it for a while and then move it along if you don't want it. I have read that PH can stand for "place hold." The question is, what does that mean? I'm guessin' PRR knows.
I have an old Philco and an old Crosley. The are art-deco - I also cannot bear to gut them. Its like gutting a Hammond B-3 - bad karma,

[Platefire]

There is a schematic glued to the inside upright left side of cab. Very small scale. I did get hold of the corner to see how easy it mybe pulled loose but appeared it would be tore to pieces trying to do that. I thought if I could get it loose, I could make a copy or a photo and enlarge it. I did find an enlarged photo someone had took and posted on a Radio forum but it is illegible. Attached is that copy

[PRR]

Matsushita begat National Panasonic then Panasonic brand and then Panasonic company.

The collector radio market is weak. People ask $135 for these very high-end jobs, but the only sale I see is $20:
https://shopgoodwill.com/item/156350366

> something called the Multiplex Output. Another next to it that I would guess is a ground connection judging from the symbol over it.

Huh? You don't even have to read English to read that pictogram.

Minor clue: "multiplex out put" is an unfiltered mono signal. So it's only one jack. And those ARE conventional 'phono' plugs and jacks, the plugs shipped-with (unlike today when essential connectors are added-cost).

Also see the image of a very slightly older build w/o multiplex.

I see the schematic sticker. That's probably fish-paste. It won't come off except in shreds. Today you could try a cellfone with a wide angle close-up lens, held flat to the opposite wall, aimed by guess. Most cells can use the VOL side-button as clicker.

[Platefire]

Thanks PRR. I would have never made a turn table and arm out of that but I can see it with your added ID. You said they are conventional phono plugs and jacks. I think of phono jacks/plugs same as a RCA connector, but I tried to attach a male RCA tothose connectors and the RCA's were to big to fit?? Is this some outdated standard not used anymore?

[sluckey]

I tried to attach a male RCA tothose connectors and the RCA's were to big to fit?? Is this some outdated standard not used anymore?

Your blurry pic shows two male phono plugs already in those chassis jacks. Did you remove those phono plugs first? Male won't plug into the back of another male.

[bmccowan]

Male won't plug into the back of another male.

[Platefire]

OOps I didn't recognize that as being the back side of a male RCA. Now I see what PRR meant about them shipping the essentials at no cost. I wondered if that might be the case but the thing was stuck in there so solid that it wouldn't budge, but a pair of needle nose pliers brought it out with a little tugging.

Yelp I put an RCA male to a 1/4" female adapter on the end of my guitar cord, plugged it in and "Bingo" it works on the "PH" setting.The guitar sounds fair but a little weak in headroom volume, tone is OK. I have read that those vintage Japanese 6BQ5"s sometimes were a little weak plus the age on it, might try one of my EL84's in there to see if it perks up any.

Well I guess ya'll had a good laugh on me  I may a well laugh too:>)
MATSUSHITA's international symbolism didn't work on this hard head

[Platefire]

One thing I've been noticing is when the amp is first powered up, it comes off kinda strong but as it warms up, the sound starts breaking down distorted and weak. I haven't took the chassis out yet but I'm thinking from what I've seen so far, don't think this has never been worked on before? So for now, I'm going to quit running it until I decide what to do. Either pass it onto someone who is looking for such a thing as a project or go ahead and restore it knowing I will probably never get my investment back out of it. At this point I kinda enjoy having a project in the background to go to on a rainy day---I'm just not sure I want it to be this one?   

[PRR]

The AM Detector input (which is what that phono input is driving) is 50mV-100mV sensitivity. Maybe more when rigged for Phono cuz even older needles made plenty output.

Guitar amps are usually scaled for 10mV-50mV sensitivity for edge of distortion. So a light strum can hover in or out of distortion.

Sure it plays, like a loaded truck. It won't "dance easily" like an empty pickup, you gotta work at it.

And yes, I am astonished it didn't go "hmmmmmmBTAPZZZ!" after the 40 year nap. Tubes are likely fine but expect cap rot and drifty resistors.

[bmccowan]

At this point I kinda enjoy having a project in the background to go to on a rainy day---I'm just not sure I want it to be this one?

Yeah, if it does not inspire in some way, its hard to get jazzed about working on a project. I will occasionally dip into radios. But if they either don't look real cool, like some of those art deco radios from the 40s. or sound great, I pass on them. I recently picked up a KLH model 8 radio at an estate auction - a famous Henry Kloss design. Sounds fantastic and pulls in stations better than modern radios I have. It had a fairly recent service tag and a pair of Telefunken ECL82s in it.
One thing of interest though with the Japanese stuff - I have been kind of fascinated with their typical build techniques and some of the components, such as the higher wattage resistors. Better or worse I don't know, but interesting. So before you let it go, it might be fun to open it up for a look around. Geeky enough?

[Platefire]

I have a confession to make! I have a fear of "Dial Cord Stringing"!! If I pull the chassis, pretty sure I'll have to deal with that.My past experiences with that has not been good usually ending with a non working dial. If the cord snaps, then you got to find a replacement plus getting it installed right. It's working now. I guess that's another incentive to pass it on

[PRR]

Bet you a buck the dialcord stays on the chassis. Usually the knob and the tuning cap are both on the chassis, it has to be out for factory initial alignment, so "usually" it all hangs together.

Unless some AH threaded the pointer through a dial set in the case. I just tossed a radio for that bad design, the pointer was never going to go on right again. EDIT-- ah, I see your slot, and your fear. It may flip-up, or not.

Also the stringing is practically readable in the sticker posted here.

[AlNewman]

If it works as is, replace the electrolytics and paper and oil caps, check and replace resistors, and sell it or keep it as a restored radio.

6x4 rectifier, if it's anything like I'm thinking probably can't handle much current, so your guitar amp will be castrated anyhow.  Plus, it probably has really low voltages.  It ain't no fender.

[PRR]

6x4 rectifier, if it's anything like I'm thinking probably can't handle much current, so your guitar amp will be castrated anyhow.  Plus, it probably has really low voltages.  It ain't no fender.

It is single-ended, 2.5+Watts. The rectifier is ample for what it is. Being ~~half the Watts of a True Champ does not make it a wimp. The speaker is an unknown: it may be wideband low efficiency or may be goosed-up loud. Obviously adding a jack lets you feed a Full Stack baby-waker. Just one good Twelve would probably make it unfit for home duty.

[Platefire]

One thing I noticed in fooling with this radio in my research that a lot of folks who got these were looking for a schematic but nobody had one. I searched the net pretty thorough and couldn't find anything legible. So I took the back off tonight and one big obstacle in taking pictures of the schematic was the speaker in the way. So I pulled the speaker and set it aside out of the way and experimented with my phone camera a bit. I did happen to get some more legible shots than I've seen but to get all that was on the Schematic, in had to put it in three separate pages, posted below. Maybe this will help someone looking for one. These are somewhat legible, if you really look hard.

I just have a really hard time reading this schematic

[AlNewman]

I guess what I'm saying is it would be really hard for me to modify a tube FM stereo receiver that is working and has original cabinet and parts.  I'd be more likely to bring it back to original.

If you have room to add in an external cab jack without irreversibly damaging the chassis, and can plug in your guitar via the RCA input, than perhaps that is something I would consider.  If I had the means, I would probably lean towards an 1/8 stereo input for a Bluetooth setup.

Keep in mind, if something is worth $20 today, it may be worth $200 tomorrow.

I've found the best way to understand schematics is to dig in and start rebuilding things, the schematics start to make sense (especially with help from more experienced people, and I am grateful for that).  It's still a project, and I get all the good fuzzy feelings of a job well done when I can reliably turn on a radio that is older than me.

Just my 2 cents.  These things where I am are getting harder to find untouched, and I've already got a shitload of guitar amps.

[Platefire]

Well I was really hungry for a find. Around here all tube stuff is all but non existent in the thrift shops, flea markets and antique shops. So when I found this for $10, I didn't even haggle, just laid down the money. It's worth that much or more just in entertainment factor. I enjoy doing the research and learning about these old works. At the time it was someone's best effort to put something out hopefully people would go after. In this case Japanese MATSUSHITA to the world, later to become Panasonic.

About 20 years ago I picked up a Japanese stereo tuner and stereo power amp real cheap from a thrift shop. I can't even remember the brand name, started with an "S". The tuner was fine and I had to put a coupling cap in the amp, then it was OK. I put them on e-bay to sell in USA only because I didn't want to fool with foreign shipping. I had several contact me from Japan begging me to put it on the world market, but I didn't. Sold it in the USA at about 1000% profit.  Can't help but wonder if there might be a Japanese Radio Collector/restorer that would like to have this. Not to skin them financially but to get it in the hands of one who really had a passion of bringing it back up to 100%.

It's an interesting piece but I don't think I've got the passion or drive to take it on. Plus, I'm running out of space to store stuff. 
So as I'm playing with it, learning about it,  I'm thinking of the best way to get rid of it:>)

[sluckey]

Does Sansui ring a bell? Good stuff and very popular especially with military personnel stationed in Asia.

[Platefire]

I think that's it. Its been so long ago, I can't remember the model. I just remember they were built like a tank, very heavy. Especially the power amp. 

[PRR]

...modify a tube FM stereo receiver that is working and ...

FWIW: this unit is not stereo. It is the year we knew stereo was coming, but the exact decoder was not yet settled. We did know we would need an output straight from the FM discriminator/detector. And that output jack could be added for pennies. And reduced angst about "Should I wait to buy?" Tell the sucker honored customer "Come back next year, we'll fix this up!" (The stereo decoder was not that expensive, but not cheap, but then you want *two* power amps and perhaps better than an SE EL84. Pretty soon it makes sense to just buy an FM Stereo Receiver. And speakers.....)

The "Multiplex" is also perfect for SCA, FM side-channel, typically a Muzak-like service piggybacked on low-profit FM broadcast. Background music cost money. The service provider enforced this in supermarkets and restaurants. Home-brew SCA decoders were rare, but existed, and this would be a fine head for such a scheme. If this were 1963 again. If you really-really loved elevator music.

[shooter]

If you really-really loved elevator music.

I was a commercial janitor at 16, one of my cleans was a muzak station. 2 workstations each with2 turntables, wires, cables, a mess to vacuum around.
the upside, the ashtrays at both stations usually had a couple roaches left over, so 1st order of business was to break them down n roll a "new" joint. the 2nd order of business was to figure out how to STOP the elevator music!!!

[DummyLoad]

If you really-really loved elevator music.

I was a commercial janitor at 16, one of my cleans was a muzak station. 2 workstations each with2 turntables, wires, cables, a mess to vacuum around.
the upside, the ashtrays at both stations usually had a couple roaches left over, so 1st order of business was to break them down n roll a "new" joint. the 2nd order of business was to figure out how to STOP the elevator music!!!

Ah! I. C. - A wake-n-bake!

EZ Wider or Zig-Zag?


--Pete

[shooter]

 
I was a janitor, EZ wider 

[PRR]

The guy who (with family) owns most of the rolling paper brands in the US does not smoke pot.

https://www.forbes.com/video/6325511014112/meet-the-billionaire-king-of-rolling-papers/

[Platefire]

Got a question about the Tweeter hook up? On these old style tweeter hookups, isn't the crossover capacitor suppose to be on the + positive side from woofer to tweeter??? I can't tell that the tweeter is even working listening closely and can't detect any sound coming from it. It suppose to be 8 Ohms and checking it with a MM it reads 5.8 Ohm, so I suppose the speaker is good. But if I'm not mistaking, the 3uf/10V crossover cap is hooked up on the -Neg leg between woofer and tweeter.

Check out attached pix of it. The green wire from woofer marked Red on the term has no cap on it. The white wire which I think is the neg, has the cap on it?? Does that make any difference?

[sluckey]

Should make no difference. There's nothing to tweet about coming from that radio anyhow.   

[shooter]

if it's a "cone type" you can sprinkle a weee bit of talcum power and see if it dances
if it's a piezo you'll have to watch the other end, and NO power
As Steve pointed out, ya need something north of 4khz to get it moving

[sluckey]

Probably blowed it out by plugging a guitar into it. Tiny speakers don't like guitars.   

[PRR]

OMG, that's a real Tweeter!!

Which side the cap is on makes no difference.

It may be real hard to hear the tweet on low-fi music with the fairly decent midrange next to it. Tune in some Disco with turbo cymbals kushAHZ kushAHZ! Disconnect the midrange. Even bypass the tweeter cap to be sure, but do not blast it that way!

And I dunno why it matters. It does not have deep bass, why have extended highs? Only because that tweeter was inexpensive (not truly cheap; that's a hellofa magnet for a small cone).

Extend the tweeter leads and put it up to your ear. Or grab a heater hose or cut-up garden hose and use as stethoscope.

The talcum/sand trick works good on woofers with visible cone motion, but the motion of a tweeter is super tiny and may not lift talcum/sand.

[AlNewman]

I am probably wrong, but looks like it's set up for upwards of 6-10k hertz of frequency passing through the tweeter.  So if you're trying to hear it through your guitar, probably not gonna pick up much.  Try finding static in the radio and see if you can hear it with the tone knobs up.

[Platefire]

I've played very little guitar through the Phono jack, just one time and I kind of held it down when I was. I've mostly been listening to the FM and did try the SW and picked up some communications in a language I didn't understand. With the internal antenna only hooked up, it was probably a skip. The radio sounds real crisp when you first fire it up and there after starts breaking down. No bad hummms, just the headroom gets weak and breaking up. Don't know rather to blame in on bad caps, strayed resistors or something else. Maybe all of the above

I mainly wanted to make sure the crossover cap was hooked up right. What ever it does, it does and what ever it don't, it don't.

[Beezerboy]

I hang out over here....

https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=81960

good guys, they will share ,etc

also...

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/craig_vista_panoramic_sound_640.html


usually they have more stuff

I've done a few radios... problem is there is almost nothing on that I want to hear. especially on AM

[sluckey]

The radio sounds real crisp when you first fire it up and there after starts breaking down.

Tubes should be the number one suspect.

[shooter]

did try the SW and picked up some communications in a language I didn't understand.

missed it had SW in the OP, that feature alone makes it worth chasing down problems n fixing, since that's the new 21st century "end of world" canary 

[Platefire]

There is one of these on e-bay now. Only one picture of front, no description of the condition. He does say it is fully operational and works as intended.  I'm interested if this generates any interest at all? If I'm reading things right, it's been on e-bay since 2021.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144225328985

[PRR]

Tiny picture, looks like a stain down the front, $200, won't ship.

Also $10-$20 calculators from the 1970s, $70 and $180.

Also:
Seller feedback     More than a year ago
NEVER SHIPPED OR RECEIVED AMPLIFIER NO ANSWERS TO MY EMAILS NON MONEY TIED UP 2 WEEKS DISHONEST SELLER STAY AWAY FROM THIS SELLER
McIntosh MC2102 (#144492602638)

This was $6,000 asking price!!!

I don't think you want to buy from this seller, and I don't think his sales reflect the market.

> If I'm reading things right, it's been on e-bay since 2021.

How do you see that?

[Platefire]

On the listing it has a link you can click on(review all Revisions) that shows all the modifications to the description including dates that go back to 2021
I certainly not interested in buying, and neither would I buy from this guy anything. The way this guy list discourages interest. So I doubt anyone bids. Anyway I'll watch and see

[PRR]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[ShoemanGB]

I've had this for a awhile now.  Belonged to my late father-in-law.  SW was a way to hear the world to his generation.  He was a kid in Berlin in WW2 and the family moved to the USA in the early fifties.  He'd tune in a live Christmas day concert from Berlin every year right up till his last with it.
 It still works.  I need to find a spot to display it as it's a real beauty.

[Platefire]

That's is a fine looking Zenith Radio. Yeah you need to find a spot for that to display and play it every now and then. It kind of reminds me of a much lesser dark brown Zenith AM I had was my first radio as a teen. I use to set it on the edge of my bed, and tune it to WNOE New Orleans at a low volume and sleep with it running all night long. In the day I listened to KEEL Radio in Shreveport La. It was all Top 40 AM back then that may include rock, country, instrumentals, Folk, Rhythm and blues. I finally knocked it off my bed in my sleep so many times by accident, it got all broke up.

I remember my Grandpa on my mothers side huddling up to his big upright wood cab radio to listen to ball games. On my Mothers side that Grandpa was a musician and he listened to music programs almost exclusively. I've got recordings he made from his radio of the late 40's Grand Old Opry.

BTW--I replaced the existing  3uF crossover cap with a 3.7 uF/100V non polar electrolytic I got off e-bay, and now I can hear my Tweeter!!

[PRR]

...Belonged to my late father-in-law.  SW was a way to hear the world to his generation....

Growing up, I knew a ex-pat Polish family who had a similar super-short-wave, pride of place in the rec-room. As you say, a way to get news and music from the old country.

Glad you got your tweet back, Platefire.

[Lectroid]

My dad also had a Zenith Trans-Oceanic radio since he (and hence we) went out on boats around Southern California.  Fine reception no matter what band you were listening to.  Dating myself, but we'd sit at anchor after dinner and listen to radio dramas and variety programs.  Didn't miss TV a bit.  Which, even in the LA market, was just three network channels and three independents.   

Also the talk about the Opry during the 40s reminded me of Ken Burns' epic "Country Music" series.  Twelve episodes in all, starting early in the 20th century and ending up in the 21st.  I am not a great fan of modern country music. At all.  But give a listen to "Country Music."  You may just come away with a new appreciation of the genre.  It's a phenomenal series even for Ken Burns.  One of his very best...

[Platefire]

And then it was the days of early 60's pocket Transistor Radios. I went through that phase where I carried my pocket transistor everywhere. I think I went through three of them before having enough. I found out carrying them around with me, they just didn't last very long. The last one I got my Parents gave my Sister and I a new PHILCO P-1604, one identical each. The family went on a fishing trip, I took mine along and ended up dropping it in the Lake. Somehow I ended up with my Sister's Philco. I don't remember how or why?? Here is some pixs below.

It use to work a few years back but I put a 9V battery in it last night. It turned on but would only whine and scream. I did pick up once a faint voice among all the noise but didn't get any clear signal. It may be because there is no AM stations anymore?

[AlNewman]

Probably just needs $10 in parts, and $100 in labour.

[Platefire]

Oh I was just wanted to point out that period of time when the pocket size transistor radio kind of exploded and everybodyseemed to be carrying one around. That's about the time I started learning guitar so my interest in playing with my guitar picking buddies kind of overtook listening to the radio to buying records and learning licks