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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Reverb transformer grounding  (Read 2641 times)

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Offline marshallguy

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Reverb transformer grounding
« on: August 07, 2023, 08:26:24 am »
Good morning,

I have a Fender style Reverb Tank, 4AB3C1A installed that replaced the original Marshall. Marshall mounted theirs inside the chassis because it has exposed voltage pins and no bell covers. Problem there was is was transmitting audio like an Omni direction antenna tower. I was getting a whole lot of bleed over.

This transformer has the bell covers but I’m still getting just a little bleed over into the P.I. & output jacks ( most likely from P.I.). I’ve been chasing down a ringing notes problem and perhaps this audio bleed over is the probable cause.

When I injected audio and ground the audio path at or before the output junction of V4A .022 / .002 / 1.8M, (see schematic) it completely shunts it. Anywhere after, like the grid of V4B or output to M.V., some small amount of audio is still getting through to the P.I. & output jacks. Not a lot, but it’s getting there. Also grounding on the other 002 coupling cap to the reverb V5 grid doesn’t do much at all.

If I disconnect the audio out of the reverb transformer to the reverb tank which is located still in the bag of the cabinet with audio grounding at V4B (anywhere after the 1.8M / 25p) then the audio bleed over disappears.

I mounted 2 RCA jacks to the chassis opposite of the power supply circuits about 1/2 apart and soldered in the coaxial cables to them internally. Coaxial is grounded to each respected input or output jack. The other side I just run regular audio RCA type cables to the tank.

When I remove the RCA jack that is going to the tank, send, with the audio grounded at V4B Master Vol, bleed over disappears. Removing the Return side drops lower but not completely out.

Reverb volume pots are zero, tried moving the grounding for the B+ node reverb from audio to mains ground and back, same for  the P.I. / V4 nodes filter cap. That didn’t change anything.

Transformer is the TF-160

Thanks.




« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 02:14:04 pm by marshallguy »

Offline tubeswell

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Re: Reverb transformer grounding
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2023, 02:23:31 pm »
getting just a little bleed over…

If I disconnect the audio out of the reverb transformer to the reverb tank which is located still in the bag of the cabinet with audio grounding at V4B (anywhere after the 1.8M / 25p) then the audio bleed over disappears…

When I remove the RCA jack that is going to the tank, send, with the audio grounded at V4B Master Vol, bleed over disappears…


So by ‘bleed over’, do you mean ‘microphonic ringing’?


Pan feeding back maybe? (Put your finger on the pan case. Does the noise stop?)
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline marshallguy

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Re: Reverb transformer grounding
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2023, 03:49:28 pm »
getting just a little bleed over…

If I disconnect the audio out of the reverb transformer to the reverb tank which is located still in the bag of the cabinet with audio grounding at V4B (anywhere after the 1.8M / 25p) then the audio bleed over disappears…

When I remove the RCA jack that is going to the tank, send, with the audio grounded at V4B Master Vol, bleed over disappears…


So by ‘bleed over’, do you mean ‘microphonic ringing’?


Pan feeding back maybe? (Put your finger on the pan case. Does the noise stop?)

Hi Tubewell,

The pan is several feet away. Amp on the bench with rca cable to and from pan.

It’s crossover audio from the preamp to the output. With the reverb connected, it’s a little more and a little higher pitch. Injected audio is 1000hz. Disconnecting the reverb send cable to the tank and it ceases. Removing the return cable and it drops but still there. Probably just the audio minus any reverb on top of. If I can resolve this then maybe other ringing on notes problem resolves too. At least now I can see and hear it. Recall this is when I clip a ground to the audio path after the reverb mixing 1.8M / 25p circuit. Shorting the audio before that point the audio completely  goes silent as it should.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2023, 03:52:59 pm by marshallguy »

Offline marshallguy

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Re: Reverb transformer grounding
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2023, 03:59:44 pm »
getting just a little bleed over…

If I disconnect the audio out of the reverb transformer to the reverb tank which is located still in the bag of the cabinet with audio grounding at V4B (anywhere after the 1.8M / 25p) then the audio bleed over disappears…

When I remove the RCA jack that is going to the tank, send, with the audio grounded at V4B Master Vol, bleed over disappears…


So by ‘bleed over’, do you mean ‘microphonic ringing’?


Pan feeding back maybe? (Put your finger on the pan case. Does the noise stop?)

If I was to just look at the schematic, the first thing to jump out would be audio getting into the B+ node of V4 from the plate resistors and the reverb node, across the 4.7k into the P.I. Plates.

I wonder if 4.7k as a dropping resistor is maybe too low? Idk.  :dontknow:

Offline tdvt

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Re: Reverb transformer grounding
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2023, 04:32:10 pm »
Disconnecting the reverb send cable to the tank and it ceases. Removing the return cable and it drops but still there
Just for clarity, is this is removing the reverb cables from the amp end or from the tank end?

What happens when you remove both cables at the same time & completely disconnect the tank? (besides no reverb...)

Offline marshallguy

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Re: Reverb transformer grounding
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2023, 05:55:13 am »
Disconnecting the reverb send cable to the tank and it ceases. Removing the return cable and it drops but still there
Just for clarity, is this is removing the reverb cables from the amp end or from the tank end?

What happens when you remove both cables at the same time & completely disconnect the tank? (besides no reverb...)

From the amp end at the RCA coupling connection.

With the audio grounded at the output of V4B after the .022 coupling cap….

Remove Send cable: no bleed over
Remove Return cable: Only dry signal bleed over (reduced bleed over)
Both cables: No bleed over

Ok, now shorting output reverb to audio ground:

Send out center pin: Bleed over increase slightly
Return: Only dry signal bleed over (reduce bleed over)
Both: No bleed over

Shorting the Send out with or without RCA cable to reverb connected no difference, slight increase in bleed over.

Well it appears somewhere through the grounds it’s traveling since grounding reverb out only makes it a little worse. My audio grounding is at the reverb grounding points so maybe one of the grounds associated with the P.I.? The only ground in that case would be the B+ node  32uf / 32uf ground. I’ve moved that ground to the power supply main grounds before and didn’t gain anything. Or could it be something else?






 


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