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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: PI wiring error question  (Read 2466 times)

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Offline hiegdk

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PI wiring error question
« on: May 22, 2024, 12:34:56 pm »
During a recent build (Matamp GT120 clone) I encountered a soldering error that resulted in what I thought was a really cool sound - though definitely a fault. I've tried to highlight it in the attached screenshot (and the full schematic is there for reference too).

Essentially I failed to tie the two halves of the PI together. The result was that the amp was way down on output power and but it also sounded really cool - kind of a high gain stoner-rock / metal kind of sound that I really liked, just quite quiet compared to how blisteringly loud that amp is when working properly. I then fixed the issue and the amp is great now but I was curious if someone smarter than me could explain what that wiring error would have been doing, and what the knock-on effects of it would be for an amp. Could that mistake be somehow worked into a a proper design - as I said, it sounded pretty good!

Offline tubeswell

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2024, 12:41:47 pm »
If there was no connection in the place you indicated, the amp wouldn’t work. (Edit upon further inspection, I note it’s supposed to be a DC coupled cathodyne inverter, but without that wire, there is no connection.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 12:55:42 pm by tubeswell »
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Offline sluckey

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2024, 01:04:10 pm »
I agree. No connection as you indicated would have resulted in NO sound.

Quote from: tubeswell
The schematic is drawn wrong and You need a coupling cap there. As to what caused your happy sound, this isn’t clear from the information you provided.

However, the schematic is correct. It's called a direct coupled cathodyne. No cap is required. Sunn used this circuit in most all of their old tube amps. I own two such direct coupled cathodynes. They work just fine...

     https://sluckeyamps.com/sunn/sunn_sceptre_1971.pdf
     https://sluckeyamps.com/rocky/rocky.pdf

edit... You're too fast Tubeswell.    :icon_biggrin:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 01:08:56 pm by sluckey »
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline tubeswell

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2024, 01:10:30 pm »
I agree. No connection as you indicated would have resulted in NO sound.

Quote from: tubeswell
The schematic is drawn wrong and You need a coupling cap there. As to what caused your happy sound, this isn’t clear from the information you provided.

However, the schematic is correct. It's called a direct coupled cathodyne. No cap is required. Sunn used this circuit in most all of their old tube amps. I own two such direct coupled cathodynes. They work just fine...

     https://sluckeyamps.com/sunn/sunn_sceptre_1971.pdf
     https://sluckeyamps.com/rocky/rocky.pdf

edit... You're too fast Tubeswell.    :icon_biggrin:


Yes i realised that after my initial post. I had difficulty squinting at the schematic initially.
A bus stops at a bus station. A train stops at a train station. On my desk, I have a work station.

Offline hiegdk

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2024, 01:16:45 pm »
Ah, interesting. So the error wasn't that that connection was entirely missing, it was that the solder connection to pin 7 was bad as I recall - I think the insulator was in the joint a bit. I assumed it was not connected at all, but maybe it was somehow making a partial or poorly conducting connection? What would the effect of adding a resistance between pin 1 and pin 7 in that circuit be?

Offline sluckey

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2024, 01:23:50 pm »
I suppose a high resistance solder joint at pin 7 could cause the symptoms you describe. I probably would not call it a cool sound.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline WimWalther

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Re: PI wiring error question
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2024, 10:24:48 pm »
Cold solder joints can have diode-like behavior, though it's very unpredictable and typically only manifests in hi-Z circuits.

BTW, Hi everyone.

 


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