Reshaping the neck

[EL34]

I like my cheapo Les Paul jr except for a few things I want to change.It sounds great but needs some mods to make it play better and be more comfortable.
It was $479 at Sweet water, so it's not a priceless relic.

The body digs into my rib cage because it does not have a scoop like my Strat style bodies.
The neck has a heavy spray finish that is rather sticky when your hands are damp.
The neck digs into my left hand on the High E side of the neck and I don't like that.
It has a fatter profile than what I like.

This is work that I already did when I got the guitar.
I machined a new bridge that has string saver saddles that can be adjusted and that bridge has been great.
I replaced the stock pickups with Mojo custom wound P90's which I really like.

So I am going to do some major work on the neck and body now.
I am going to scoop the body right where it digs into my ribs and do a natural oil finish.
I am going to re-profile the neck and copy my favorite Strat neck
The neck will get a natural oil and wax finish.

I did measurements on the Strat neck at the nut, 1st, 7th and 12th fret.
I measured the same spots on the Lp jr neck

I went to stew mac and looked at the assortment of Neck Shaping Templates.
You can see the measurements on the gauge photos so I compared my Strat measurements.
The closest match is the EJ Signature Strat gauge so I ordered that

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-necks-and-fingerboards/neck-shaping-templates-for-electric-guitar#mz-expanded-view-17975090310

I have to get a couple wood shaping tools and jig up the guitar so it's solid
I can't take off the neck so, it has to be done with the body on.
It could be a new adventure.

[EL34]

BTW, I have watched a bunch of neck re-shaping videos on YouTube and also natural neck finishing videos.
I gathered a bunch of different ideas from the videos.

[rake]

The Shinto rasps can help make short work of neck shaping.
https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/luthier-tools/files/shinto-saw-rasp-11/

[mk_716]

Hey @el84,
    Go for it!  I recently reshaped a super chunky gfs neck.  Made an unplayable neck pretty decent.   I used a rasp to break the finish and took a lot of wood off the shoulders.   Used a block and sandpaper and lots of measuring from there.   6 coats of thin tru oil.  First time I've used tru oil, would totally use that again on a neck.

   Good luck!
m.

[mresistor]

Hey @el84,     Go for it!  I recently reshaped a super chunky gfs neck.  Made an unplayable neck pretty decent.   I used a rasp to break the finish and took a lot of wood off the shoulders.   Used a block and sandpaper and lots of measuring from there.   6 coats of thin tru oil.  First time I've used tru oil, would totally use that again on a neck.    Good luck! m.

Hi Mk  that's what Music Man specifies for their bare necks..  also the wax on top..  the neck feels great afterwards and with the wax it remains sealed from the elements. 
Birchwood Casey products for those that don't know.

[EL34]

The music man method is what I am shooting for
I did see a video where a guy shaved a neck with a big sharp blade with left the neck surface way smoother than using rasp filesI also saw a guy using a spoke shave and that is the result was the same smooth neck surface

There is way less sanding if the neck is not so rough
And it seems to be way less a possibility of gouging the neck if it is shaved
I am not ready to do this quite yet
Still assembling materials and knowledge

Also, I guess if it was rock maple, that might be way harder to shave
But this being a Chinese guitar and a Gibson clone, it is probably softer wood

[mresistor]

Doug  have you seen the scoop on a Gibson LP Special?  In looking at your proposed area in the pic above it seems not as large an area as the Gibson. I just looked at mine and the scoop extendes deeper in and farther back into the lower bout, say nearly halfway into it.  It's fairly substantial.

[rake]

If you have a steady hand you can rough in a scoop with a 60 grit flap disc on a 4.5" angle grinder.

Another good cheap tool is a farrier's rasp. When they're too dull for hooves, they're about right for wood!

Doug, if you need one, just holler. My late father in law left me a bucket full! 

[EL34]

That scoop looks more like what I want
I'll use your image as a guide

Man this thing digs right into my ribs and is a bit painful

[EL34]

If you have a steady hand you can rough in a scoop with a 60 grit flap disc on a 4.5" angle grinder.

Another good cheap tool is a farrier's rasp. When they're too dull for hooves, they're about right for wood!

Doug, if you need one, just holler. My late father in law left me a bucket full! 

I have 5 different flap disc gritsThose things can get away from you, but I think I will give that a go.

I bought a grinder a couple years ago and a bunch of cut off disc and flap disc.
That tool has been used a bunch of times

[acheld]

That Shinto rasp that Rake mentions looks like it should gouge and leave a very rough finish, but . . .  it doesn't.   Works very well and you have way more control using it than anything else I have tried.

Yes, there will be sanding, but not as much as you think.

Last, I've gravitated to Rubio Monocoat as a finish for my necks.  Very easy to apply and is not sticky when cured.

[bmccowan]

I also saw a guy using a spoke shave and that is the result was the same smooth neck surface

Spoke shaves are great. Mostly a forgotten tool except for chair builders. Used ones are usually like new and cheap. They can be found in many blade profiles. I have a few, but a good friend of mine has dozens as he rebuilt carriages for the Rockefeller family - a sweet gig, eh?

[rake]

I have spoke shaves and draw knives. Yes they can do great work but, if the grain runs wrong,
you can tear off way too much in a skinny minute! Grinding and sanding is way safer,
especially in less experienced hands.

[acheld]

but, if the grain runs wrong,
you can tear off way too much in a skinny minute!

  Been there, and
  Done that!

[EL34]

I have not settled on any method yet.

One thing I did try was I took a razor blade to the neck finish to see it it would shave some of the gloss off.
The razor blade did not even put a mark on the gloss
It feels like epoxy rather than a simple clear coat.

What ever the finish is, it is hard as a rock.

[rake]

Doug, many of the imports are finished in two part urethanes similar to automotive finishes.
They are also applied very thick leaving enough buildup to ensure level sanding and polishing
without having to return to the spray booth. (more finish = less re-work)
I recently had an import acoustic in for a bridge re-glue. It never had a chance.
there was finish under the bridge over .080" thick. No wood glue can make up
for that poor of a fit!

A little trick for you, Take your razor blade's edge and drag it across something hard like
a vice to roll the edge and create a burr. The burred edge makes for a much better scraper!
It'll plane off about any finish! 

[EL34]

Thanks
I just used a box knife razor blade for that test
They are too thin for the job

I have some thick scraper blades that I will try that with
I have some flat stones used for sharpening that I can drag one across and see if it make a burr
I'll drag it upright and see what happens

[EL34]

I have a couple scraper blade types that go into a scraper tool

I also found this planer blade
I sharpened it on a bench sander and tipped it up a bit so it left a burr
It's fairly think and does not bend like a razor blade and is easy to hold onto

This was able to remove the clear finish no problem
I'll tape off the neck and have a go at it later to see what it can do

[mk_716]

Hey Doug,
   I've got a spoke shave and I just don’t have enough skill, or it's not quite tuned enough to get good results.   The poly on the gfs neck was really thick,  the rasps turned out to be the best tool to break it up, once the finish was broken I switched to heavy sandpaper to get most of it, then switched to gradually lighter paper as I closed in on the profile.
   I didn't wax the tru oil afterwards. I liked how it felt and I went with it.  If it does break down cuz it wasn't sealed I have no fear about going at it again.  The neck was unusable to me as it was so....
m.

[rake]

Doug, that's a palm planer blade.
Scrapers have a square edge, not a knife edge.

Look here:
https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.com/luthier-tools/carving-knives-and-chisels/japanese-mini-card-scraper-set-of-5-2mm-4mm-thickness/
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/scraper-set-120mm-x-44mm-standard-set-2

[EL34]

Whatever it's called, it has a burr now that I can feel.

I can shape it anyway I want
I don't have the tool that it fits into
Not even sure where I got it from

I'll see what it can do later.

[rake]

Just try to keep it as perpendicular to the work surface as possible.
That's when the burr and not the blade will do the work.

[EL34]

I tipped it up on the bench sander and it has more of a flat end now with a burr.
I went to the sander and touched it up which improved the burr

[EL34]

All right, the scraping has begun
It's going way easier than I thought it would
After about 30 minutes, I have a 2 inch wide strip down to wood without digging into the wood.

I have it mounted upside down to my fret leveling jig that I made many years ago.
It has adjustable neck supports and I can strap the body and head stock down so the guitar is solid

[EL34]

I have most of the finish off now
I have not decided how to blend in the two ends yet, so I stayed back from my tape just a bit

Here's a shot of how much clear finish came off the neck and the guitar strapped down in my  jig

[EL34]

Here's the two guitars I measured
My Jazz-O Caster Strat neck and the LP Jr neck

I am not gonna mess with neck width because I don't want to screw up the string distances to the edge
I am going to try and match the profile on the Stew Mac profile gauge but I may have to widen the sides just a bit so it fits the extra width
It's mainly going from a D shape to a C shape


Neck Profile in inches - Less Paul Jr
Nut Width - 1.7

Neck Widths
1st - 1.76
7th - 1.975
12th - 2.11

Neck Thickness
1st - .8875
7th - .9475
12th - 1.014


Neck Profile in inches - Jazz-O-Caster
Nut Width - 1.64"

Neck Widths
1st - 1.6795
7th - 1.9135
12th - 2.033

Neck Thickness
1st - .842
7th - .9195
12th - .9595

[rake]

I have most of the finish off now
I have not decided how to blend in the two ends yet, so I stayed back from my tape just a bit

Here's a shot of how much clear finish came off the neck and the guitar strapped down in my  jig

Dayum! That shit must have been on thicker than a 3 pack of Trojans! 

[EL34]

It was crazy thick
Now I wonder about the body too
The guitar does sound really fat and for the type of stuff I play on it
ZZ Top, Leslie West, etc type of stuff

But I wonder if that thick finish on the body has an effect.

I did a very thin wipe on-wipe off finish on the Jazz-O-Caster and it sounds great.
But before it dried completely, it did not sound that great
I thought I had messed up, but after it dried, it sounded way different

[EL34]

It was nail biting time as I fired up the grinder with a 80 grit flap disc

I made a small scoop a little at a time
I put the guitar on to see how it feels
The scoop takes care of the guitar biting into my ribs
It's not as big as some other scoops, but it feels great so I am stopping
You can see a section where they joined two pieces of wood at the top of the scoop

I sanded at 80, 120 with the grinder
Then 220, 400 and 1000 grit by hand

It's not perfect, but it can always be altered in the future if needed

I have Birchwood Tru oil and Gun Stock wax on the way that I am going to use on the neck
Now I am wondering if I should stain the scoop or just use the Birchwood stuff
I don't mind the scoop being blondish colored but maybe darker would be better?


I can take a buffer wheel to the clear coat edges and make them glossy again but I don't want to dirty up the bare wood until it has a finish on it
Not sure how to proceed on the scoop at this point

Anyone have any suggestions?

Still waiting on the StewMac template before I start to shape the neck

[mk_716]

Looking good man!

I'd go with the tru oil I think.  Only you are really going to see it.  I've only shaped an unfinished body tho, so I don't know how I handled the transition between finished/unfinished.

Good luck!

m.

[EL34]

That's what I am thinking also
Just tru oil and wax

I don't think it would look good trying to match the color of the body, if that is even possible
It could come out looking weird with two different shades

Look how thick that clear cost is
That guitar would probably weigh half a pound lighter without that clear coat.

[mresistor]

You might have a hard time staining or painting the scoop if you oil it first. I think a mahogany stain might work..  a redish one.

[rake]

Plan B??? Just keep scraping and tru-oil the whole thing! 
Sometimes we're just far better off just going for it! Hell, an arm bevel like your
strat may be a lot more comfortable too! 
It's not like you're carving up a 57 Les Paul now is it? 

[EL34]

I can't imagine removing all the finish.
Not sure I would want to see what's under there
Could be some Chinese pallet wood 

I think I am going to just oil and wax the scoop
It will match the neck

It might look cool with a blond back and sides, but who knows what they glued together to make a body.

[rake]

Nah, they sell the pallet wood to IKEA to make that ugly flat furniture!
Guitar bodies are made from toothpicks, splinters and school glue! 

[tubenit]

I don't think it would look good trying to match the color of the body, if that is even possibleIt could come out looking weird with two different shades

IF I were going to try that, I'd use water based analine dye. And then experiment on scrap wood to match the color.  On end grain wood, hit it was a slightly damp rag first to limit the amount of dye the end wood picks up.


Jeff

[EL34]

I can see the result of trying to match colors in my head.
Plus, the body is highly glossed and then try to match that also.

I am going to keep it natural like the neck and see how that goes.
The Tru Oil will be here today
I got the Gun Stock Wax yesterday

Then it is onto shaving the neck once the template arrives
I could have made a template , but there's already one available at StewMac

https://a.co/d/09vu0Un

https://a.co/d/b6jN9hb

[rake]

The only thing I don't like about the water based dye it the grain raising.
I use alcohol based dyes and find there's much less grain raising issues.
But, to each his own.
Whatever you do "WEAR NITRILE GLOVES" That dye gets everywhere!
Go ahead, try and explain that red spot on your wiener! She won't believe you! 

[EL34]

I used Angelus purple Leather dye for my Jazz-O-Caster
That worked great and still looks great

Pictures and details here

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19570.msg204135#msg204135

[rake]

A bandmate of mine many years ago got a similar color using PVC purple primer.
It's acetone, MEK and purple dye.

It's a very plum crazy in violet color!

Beautiful job and color may I add! 

[EL34]

The Tru Oil showed up just now
I applied one coat and it darkened the wood up just a bit so it is not so blonde.
It's more of a gold color now
I like the way it looks

Have to 0000 steel wool it tomorrow and apply another coat or two
Then the wax

I'll buff out the clear coat edges once the wood has been sealed
The clear coat edges should be very clear once I buff them

[EL34]

I used a small spoke shave to carve the neck which was really easy to keep in a straight line and control how much wood you are shaving.
I used 80 grit sandpaper to make sure the neck was rounded and smooth out any edges the spoke shave made.
I then used my 1/4 sheet sander and did 120, 220 and 400 grit to smooth out the 80 grit.

I am waiting on some higher grits to arrive
I have a multi grid pack on the way with these grits
400/600/ 800/1000/ 1200/1500/ 2000/2500/ 3000

I'll use some 0000 steel wool in between coats of tru oil

Just to see how the wood looks with tru oil, I applied some and the wood went from blonde to a nice shade that looks great.
The nice thing about applying some tru oil is I can continue sanding later on.
I can also play the guitar and see how I like it and modify it again if needed
Once the tru oil and wax are in place, I can wet sand the clear coat edges and make clear ramps where the wood ends and the clear cost starts.

[mresistor]

Nice! The Tru Oil really does bring out the color of the mahogany.. 

[EL34]

Yeah, it looks like it has been stained.
The neck came out darker than the scoop
Wood types possibly or wood grades?

[acheld]

Just guessing, but the neck looks like mahogany, color and grain.   I'm thinking that the body is alder with mahogany veneer  ??

Your neck looks nice.

[EL34]

I shaved a bit from the sides to reduce the D shape
The finish was so thick that the total thickness went down just from removing the clear coat.

I'll do some more sanding when the finer grit paper arrives

[EL34]

I finished the LP Jr a few days ago and strung it up with 10's

The neck shaving and scoop were a complete success
The scoop removed the pain in the ribs
The neck is now smooth as glass

[rake]

I finished the LP Jr a few days ago and strung it up with 10's

The neck shaving and scoop were a complete success
The scoop removed the pain in the ribs
The neck is now smooth as glass

Ready to scallop the fretboard next? 
That was a big deal in the early 90's!

[EL34]

No need for that.

It works great as it sits

[mk_716]

That looks great!!!!
Well done man.
m.